Channel crossings

[Tevion28]

Whats your thoughts on this are these people really desperate fleeing worn torn countries do you feel sorry for them etc

@Tabbacus

If the government supported the vulnerable in our society, and we, as one of the wealthiest countries in the world didn't have children skipping meals because their parents can't afford to feed them, women fleeing abuse weren't holed up in tiny bedsits for long periods, people waiting on social housing lists for literally decades, areas with few opportunities, families plunged into poverty if one of them becomes unable to work through illness or disability etc, people could access timely and appropriate healthcare I'm sure people would be more welcoming. There are areas hugely affected by high levels of economic migrants, it's faux nativity and disingenuous to say otherwise.

I'd rather see a fairer and safer route for actual refugees- including women and children (it's all very well to say men send money home, but many women and children are in great physical danger in these countries; also these young men don't all have families), rather than boatloads of people who can afford thousands to make the journey.

This

@HappyToPayForAdultSocialCare

I'm just going to leave this here:

🙌🙌

This is such a 'get out my country go back to where you came from' type of thread. Embarrassing

@FuckingPissedOff

I see my comment on the first page has been deleted. I'd like to know why please MN, as there was nothing offensive in it. Saying that resources are finite is a fact.

The benefits actually went up for asylum seekers last year. I think it's crazy that in a country where the infrastructure is stretched to its capacity we are allowing more and more people in. I resent having my taxes put up when their benefits also go up. I'd much rather the welfare system was improved for citizens of the U.K. who have contributed to it.
Article in the times today shows how wait times in a&e are literally ending up with people dying as a result. I can't register with a dentist. My GP won't see me face to face and getting through just to ask is an absolute nightmare. You can't get a school place because they're so full and the non English speaking asylum dc (due to their numbers) attending schools do put strain on already limited resources.
Where do we stop with how many people can come in?

I feel sorry for the individual people and don't blame them for trying but I also believe either we have a society that works or we allow the whole world to come through our doors and trash our society, culturally, financially, and otherwise. I completely blame this government and do wonder if there's more to it because I can't see why something successful to in the very least deport those that have already been refused hasn't occurred yet.

@Biker47

*I worked in the camps in Dunkirk - you are very much mistaken - the majority I met were skilled workers & professionals.

Why would you assume otherwise?*

Learning the French language and applying to stay there should be a walk in the park for professionals then, we teach children French from Primary school age here, I'm pretty sure adults who've already managed to forge skilled and professional careers can manage then.

Happy to DM photos of the camps where children are living in France? No sane parent or person would willingly live there. They are horrific

I am baffled as to why so many do not like France/French people.
They’re risking their lives to cross the channel to get to a more crowded, colder, and poorer country.

But it’s also one that is largely tolerant, which to celebrate multiculturalism and is by and large accepting of different cultures and ways of living. France is the opposite: assimilationist in its approach to incomers. you are expected to put your own beliefs and cultural practices to the side in order to become “french”. There is nothing here like, for example, the Notting Hill carnival: french people would see nothing to celebrate in this respect.

The UK is messy and chaotic and lax in how it enforce laws - and that attracts people willing to exist in the shadows for a while. No I D cards, free at the point of care / no questions asked health care. In France you don’t generally get past the secretary unless you have your carte vitale and ID - and you don’t get the former until you have proved that you are contributing to the system. Or you have to show you have the means to pay for your care.

And yes, the french police have a reputation for racist brutality.

There is a lot of French bashing on this thread.

France welcomes many migrants, but the ones that stay are overwhelmingly from francophone Africa because they speak the language.

The camps are horrific which is why the gendarmes regularly break them up and ship the migrants to asylum centres where their claims are processed and they get help to settle.

The people at Calais and Dunkirk are only there because it is the closest point of Europe to the UK, that is not France's fault.

My DH works with many migrants, some of them were at the jungle and tried to cross to the UK. They had no idea they could get help in France because they read the same press reports as you do. They are now apprentices, have bosses that support them and when asked if they would try to get to the UK now they say no way. Many of the bosses that take on the apprentices prefer migrants because they work harder, so much for being racist.

One of the apprentices he has was a translator in Afghanistan. He speaks 6 languages fluently but not French. He says that French is the hardest language he has ever learnt. That is why migrants want to get to the UK. It is the downside of your language being the international language for communication.

Goodness this thread is depressing- we really are becoming an increasingly backward nasty little racist isolationist country.

I come from a pretty shit northern town. You really have to be desperate and in fear for yours and your kids life to end up in the worst parts of this shithole to feel safer and like your life will improve.

Those of you saying women and kids fine etc the young men will often just be a few years older than our boys. Everyone was someone’s baby once

And completely agree with FrenchFancy - our language is the international global language, this is also because we were the worst (best?) in terms of going round colonising the world so actually our ancestors are to blame to a large extent

@TheFuckingDogs

Goodness this thread is depressing- we really are becoming an increasingly backward nasty little racist isolationist country.

I come from a pretty shit northern town. You really have to be desperate and in fear for yours and your kids life to end up in the worst parts of this shithole to feel safer and like your life will improve.

Those of you saying women and kids fine etc the young men will often just be a few years older than our boys. Everyone was someone’s baby once

Most people are saying they welcome refugees, just not those that travel over on dinghies funding people smugglers, our government should be doing more. And yes that's true, but women and children are often subject to more risk back home, they are not equal to men.

If you’re concerned about infrastructure and resources, these few channel crossing refugees are the least of your worries.

You need to be campaigning for population reduction by :

a) Introducing an age for mandatory euthanasia of the elderly / this will take massive strain off the NHS and social care

b) Introduce mandatory sterilisation of women on a postcode lottery basis - this will lower population growth and require less infrastructure

c) One child limit for those permitted to breed

Does this sound awful ? Yes it does doesn’t it. If you don’t support these awful measures - things which will actually move the needle on your infrastructure and resources concerns - then don’t waste your energy pursuing the tiny number desperate families risking this crossing for a better life.

The NHS is on it's knees because of chronic underfunding for many years.

That's the GOVERNMENT's fault, not illegal immigrants.

The government are spending billions and billions of pounds on a trainline that isn't required, destroying countryside in the process.

They have the money, they just choose not to spend it in this area.

@Blueuggboots

The NHS is on it's knees because of chronic underfunding for many years.

That's the GOVERNMENT's fault, not illegal immigrants.

The government are spending billions and billions of pounds on a trainline that isn't required, destroying countryside in the process.

They have the money, they just choose not to spend it in this area.

The main problem in the NHS is caused by not enough doctors and too many patients. You can't just throw money at the NHS and expect doctors to appear like magic (although this government apparently thinks that you can), it takes more than a decade to train a GP.

You complain about destroying the countryside to improve infrastructure by building a train line (which has been scrapped anyway btw. I presume that you don't live in the north and/or used the train) but that is exactly the sort of thing we need to accommodate tens of thousands more people. More houses, more schools, more hospitals, more train lines, more cities etc etc, which of course will destroy the countryside.

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr that's ridiculous. I campaign to stop people coming in to take advantage of resources that haven't been set aside for them. As PP have said, if everyone came here legally at least we stand a chance to be able to see what needs providing. When numbers of people who are breaking the law to get in are doubling each year it is terrible.

I don't agree we should just campaign for more resources to support even more people coming in, this requires me to have my taxes put up and I feel like I'm strangled enough with the taxes I pay. I want this country to have borders so that people born and raised here can do well and have a solid welfare system for those already living here first.

If you live in a town that houses high numbers of these people you'll see how it affects the local people and area. Crime is very high, the people have no intention of getting to know you and you yourself have to change the way you live around it. The men especially have no respect for women. I had to stop walking around in my area because they hang around in large groups. Sorry but that's the reality even if it doesn't fit with the middle class cries of ' the poor people let them all in'

As I said I don't blame them for trying, most of the time they do get to stay and that is preferable to going back home for numerous reasons beyond simply risk of life. Many of them once granted asylum go back and forth to their countries this doesn't make sense to me. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.
In the EU many countries do still put their residents first whilst also supporting immigrants. It is possible.

@Lineofconcepcion

''that working people are vastly impoverished compared to our parents generation''

Really! My parents like most of their generation and class, rented their property. It had no heating only coal fires and a back burner, which was great but we couldn't always afford coal. We had frost on the inside of the windows when we woke up in the morning. Luckily we had an indoor bathroom. My grandmother didn't, she had an outside privy. Both my parents worked to pay the rent and buy food. I had no clothes, other than one second hand dress and a hand me down school uniform and it wasn't unusual for kids to go to school with no shoes. Can't say I've noticed any of that recently.

We didnt even have an indoor toilet until 1978. Our bath was a big tin one that hung on the back of the pantry door.

Sugerplumfairy Mine was the same, we had no hot water unless boiled up on the stove. The loo was outside the back door. Freezing cold bedrooms in the winter. No heating except coal fire in the living room, and the "front room" on special occasions. And we were better off than the generation before us.

I do wonder why these poor people who are so desperate to flee from their homelands, will continue through so many other safe countries in order to get to the UK?
Why is UK the ultimate goal? Is it because it's English speaking? Does UK offer something else that is more desirable than what nations, in between, can offer?
I wish people would understand that the UK is not the only country taking refugees and asylum seekers. Perhaps some continue through other safe countries to get to the UK because they have other relatives already here, or perhaps because they already speak English and not German. It's very naive to think that all are coming to the UK and not other countries.
A quick google will show you the high numbers of asylum applications in Germany, France, Spain, for example.
Think of it like this: if you live in a large household and your house burns down, you can't all move in with your next-door neighbour, some of you disperse with extended family and friends.

The U.K. takes a very small number of refugees. Turkey took over 3 million from Syria - the U.K. took 20,000. Very embarrassing.

It’s not just Poland though, is it?

The whole EU is supporting the closing of the Polish border even at the threat of military tension with Belarus and Russia by proxy.

Given that half of mumsnet would move heaven and earth for a school catchment the fact that people can’t get their head around why people might want to get to where they think they would be most safe baffles me.

@Parker231

The U.K. takes a very small number of refugees. Turkey took over 3 million from Syria - the U.K. took 20,000. Very embarrassing.

The population of Turkey is about a quarter of the UK population per km2. The UK is already the most overcrowded large nation in Europe.

Also, its not just Syrian refugees coming here. There are many, many countries in the world that are affected by wars, conflicts and other humanitarian problems.

@Parker231

The U.K. takes a very small number of refugees. Turkey took over 3 million from Syria - the U.K. took 20,000. Very embarrassing.

UK is much smaller than Turkey. Hardly embarrassing

@lastqueenofscotland

Given that half of mumsnet would move heaven and earth for a school catchment the fact that people can’t get their head around why people might want to get to where they think they would be most safe baffles me.

'Most safe'? What does that even mean? They have passed through many safe countries to arrive here.

The issue isn't really about why they want to come, it about how we deal with the problem of thousands of illegals turning up on our shores.

@Parker231

The U.K. takes a very small number of refugees. Turkey took over 3 million from Syria - the U.K. took 20,000. Very embarrassing.

Turkey was paid 6 billion euros by the EU to host refugees, they're not doing it for the love of them.