Channel crossings

[Tevion28]

Whats your thoughts on this are these people really desperate fleeing worn torn countries do you feel sorry for them etc

I personally know somebody in the system that's how I know some things

I'm pretty dubious about the migrants coming from France. They seem to have thousands to spend on people smugglers. I'm afraid I don't believe all the stories about being in danger etc... I think most of them are economic migrants. That's my opinion anyway. I think you'd have to be incredibly Pollyanna-like and naive to believe the stories being spun.

I am baffled as to why so many do not like France/French people.
They’re risking their lives to cross the channel to get to a more crowded, colder, and poorer country.

I don't think they are all leaving war torn countries I think they are coming from countries with no opportunity and very poor outlook

I don't blame them. We are incredibly privileged and safe in the UK. English is widely spoken so they'll have a chance of fitting in.

@PlanDeRaccordement

I am baffled as to why so many do not like France/French people. They’re risking their lives to cross the channel to get to a more crowded, colder, and poorer country.

I think french police are much more openly racist than british police in general

I'm just going to leave this here:

Until we have a sure fire way to separate the Economic from the refugees what can we do?
The way things are at the moment is ridiculous and inhumane but what's a better solution?

Last time i looked France was not at war

What are the reasons for our poor housing options, homelessness etc ?

Off the top of my head, very quickly I would say: 'right to buy', non existent social housing, the fact that we build a small amount of 'affordable' rather than 'social' housing, the number of people with second homes, and the ridiculous renting/private landlord situation in this country, build to rent, short tenancies, affordability of rent, the number empty homes in this country. All of these probably have a much bigger impact on housing in this country than asylum seekers. (For example, the end of private tenancy is the leading reason for homelessness in England).

Speaking of homelessness, the on-the-street homeless people I work with all there because they can't get a place in a shelter/hostel (there usually are places, but they're not allowed in). There are for various reasons but the most common are being banned for drink/drug use, a history of violent/criminal/sexual behaviours which make them too risky to take again, mental health problems (ex-military with untreated ptsd etc). If there were adequate services to support these issues, homelessness in this country would look very different.

''that working people are vastly impoverished compared to our parents generation''

Really! My parents like most of their generation and class, rented their property. It had no heating only coal fires and a back burner, which was great but we couldn't always afford coal. We had frost on the inside of the windows when we woke up in the morning. Luckily we had an indoor bathroom. My grandmother didn't, she had an outside privy. Both my parents worked to pay the rent and buy food. I had no clothes, other than one second hand dress and a hand me down school uniform and it wasn't unusual for kids to go to school with no shoes. Can't say I've noticed any of that recently.

@MidnightMeltdown

I think part of the problem is that it's extremely difficult to distinguish between genuine refugees and economic migrants, and many are the latter. They see the UK as a 'rich' country but the reality is that only a small proportion of the population are rich. Many people struggle to afford day to day living.

I don't think that we should be accepting anybody who turns up illegally on our shores. They are criminals and should be treated as such. All this does is encourage more and more to make dangerous channel crossings. There should be some kind of system that allows genuine refugees to make an application without turning up here. It would be fairer, and a quota could be agreed for all countries.

Very good point

@WhittersE

What are the reasons for our poor housing options, homelessness etc ?

Off the top of my head, very quickly I would say: 'right to buy', non existent social housing, the fact that we build a small amount of 'affordable' rather than 'social' housing, the number of people with second homes, and the ridiculous renting/private landlord situation in this country, build to rent, short tenancies, affordability of rent, the number empty homes in this country. All of these probably have a much bigger impact on housing in this country than asylum seekers. (For example, the end of private tenancy is the leading reason for homelessness in England).

Speaking of homelessness, the on-the-street homeless people I work with all there because they can't get a place in a shelter/hostel (there usually are places, but they're not allowed in). There are for various reasons but the most common are being banned for drink/drug use, a history of violent/criminal/sexual behaviours which make them too risky to take again, mental health problems (ex-military with untreated ptsd etc). If there were adequate services to support these issues, homelessness in this country would look very different.

So agreed, these issues aren’t caused by having too many people from elsewhere coming here - but they are still issues that exist and cannot be quickly or easily solved so it’s hard to see how adding more people will help anyone (them or us) unless/until the issues are addressed? Or is your contention that adding more people is ok because even though we are short of housing it’s not their fault? Having trouble following the logic.

And I absolutely agree there is a major issue surrounding housing in this country, and that's because governments won't do anything about it. It is within their power to ensure when housing is built that a proportion is social housing that is needed in the immediate area, but I see local to me that is not happening.

The PRS are not at fault here, rents are increasing because this government has made being a landlord a hostile environment and many landlords are leaving the sector. Who will be housing people?

Some stats for those just making random assumptions about these refugees. I don’t think think the DM shares these kinds of figures.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/17/most-people-who-risk-channel-boat-crossings-are-refugees-report

“The analysis contradicts the government’s narrative that people coming across the Channel are not refugees. The reality is that people who come to the UK by taking terrifying journeys in small boats across the Channel do so because they are desperately seeking safety having fled persecution, terror and oppression.”

And I think many businesses would welcome anyone to come and join their businesses. We are desperately short of nurses, doctors, drivers, baristas, shopworkers etc etc. The reason these businesses are struggling to find employees is because of the hostile Brexit environment which has meant many of them have returned to their country of origin. Is that a good thing? Hardly.

The UK is the land of milk and honey.

At one point the French were supporting them to make applications to come to UK legally what happened to that?

@LittleLottieChaos

Some stats for those just making random assumptions about these refugees. I don’t think think the DM shares these kinds of figures.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/17/most-people-who-risk-channel-boat-crossings-are-refugees-report

“The analysis contradicts the government’s narrative that people coming across the Channel are not refugees. The reality is that people who come to the UK by taking terrifying journeys in small boats across the Channel do so because they are desperately seeking safety having fled persecution, terror and oppression.”

Good points - 61% approx are refugees.

That does leave a significant minority who are not and who will mostly remain here.

I think the people facilitating their arrival here are probably “selling” the U.K. to them as there’s simply so much money to be made from these vulnerable people. That, coupled with the U.K being relatively tolerant makes it a massive pull.
Some of these people smugglers charge many many thousands…they’re rubbing their hands together with glee at all this. Yes some die, but statistically, if you’re in a dinghy…you’re probably getting here and they know that.
Remember that truck full of Vietnamese migrants - they were sold the dream and they ended up dead.

I understand why people want to better their situation, but it's not tenable to have worldwide open borders where anyone can live anywhere. The illegal route is also discriminatory, favouring those who are physically strong enough to travel and wealthy enough to pay people smugglers. Equally deserving people are left behind and people smugglers profit from human misery.

daimbarsatemydogsbone

As many as want to come if I'm honest.

But I don't believe we're "full". I don't believe our NHS is inadequate or our incapable of taking the extra. I don't believe there's not sufficient housing. I believe our government doesn't want to fund these things sufficiently, doesn't want to put the laws in place to prevent empty second homes and won't commit to build more school places.

I certainly don't think it's the fault of refugees (economic or other) and I don't think it's the fault of British born poor people either. I believe it's a failure of those in charge.