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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Channel crossings

338 replies

Tevion28 · 18/11/2021 16:29

Whats your thoughts on this are these people really desperate fleeing worn torn countries do you feel sorry for them etc

OP posts:
MidnightMeltdown · 25/11/2021 16:24

27 people died yesterday trying to cross the channel, but I suppose that's fine with all those who think it's ok to encourage them to keep coming.

LittleMG · 25/11/2021 16:45

I think people forget that we all have immigrant blood in us. Who is 100% can trace all ancestry back to say, the Saxons? No one.

lonelyapple · 25/11/2021 16:46

@CorrBlimeyGG

Before anyone says they're here to claim benefits, they get £37 a week. If they were doing it solely for the money, other European countries are far more generous.
Plus free housing, free dental treatment, free nhs care, free schooling if they have children etc. The equivalent of a lot more than just £37 per week.
itsgettingwierd · 25/11/2021 16:53

@thepinknecklace

We can’t take everyone who tries to cross the channel.
But then neither than the first countries all these refugees arrive at.

We need a better system.

But these people must have money because they pay a fortune for a crossing. So they must have qualifications or a trade.

Which makes me think they must be desperate to pay all their savings to make a dangerous crossing to arrive in the UK to live in a container on £37 a week fully supervised whilst hoping for asylum.

pinknikes · 25/11/2021 17:02

@LittleMG

I think people forget that we all have immigrant blood in us. Who is 100% can trace all ancestry back to say, the Saxons? No one.
Absolutely. Open the borders for this reason alone tbh.
woodhill · 25/11/2021 17:46

But this has happened only thousands of years not in the amount of the last 50 years'

woodhill · 25/11/2021 17:46

Over 1000s of years I mean

LittleMG · 25/11/2021 18:27

Glad you agree!

LittleMG · 25/11/2021 18:32

I can’t understand what makes people think they are entitled to a lovely safe life and others aren’t. Through accident of birth.

User135644 · 25/11/2021 18:35

@Tevion28

From what I hear most asylum cases are unsuccessful in the uk so in some respects they never move on with thier life here because they are stuck in the asylum system for years with no decision surviving on £37 a week then end up working illegally.
The claim might be unsuccessful but they still stay here anyway. Look at the guy last week in Liverpool. His asylum case was rejected 6 years ago yet he was still here.
Allycott · 25/11/2021 18:35

And when shall we close them? When we have doubled our population? When the infrastructure collapses? When a civil war breaks out? When the UK becomes too shit to live in that ITS residents seek asylum elsewhere?

woodhill · 25/11/2021 18:37

@Allycott

And when shall we close them? When we have doubled our population? When the infrastructure collapses? When a civil war breaks out? When the UK becomes too shit to live in that ITS residents seek asylum elsewhere?
I really think that's how it will end up eventually and it won't be a lovely safe place for anyone
clarepetal · 25/11/2021 18:39

@JunoMcDuff

I feel extremely sorry for them and feel we should do everything to support them.
This a thousand times. How bad must a country be for someone to take the risks to get here. Especially after yesterday's news of 27 deaths. I would happily help them.
User135644 · 25/11/2021 18:39

@Allycott

And when shall we close them? When we have doubled our population? When the infrastructure collapses? When a civil war breaks out? When the UK becomes too shit to live in that ITS residents seek asylum elsewhere?
We made this mistake 20 years ago. A huge influx of people but without the infrastructure improvements to match. Now we have a housing crisis and public services stretched to virtual ruin.

How many people can our island really sustain?

FreshFreesias · 25/11/2021 18:41

It’s mostly healthy young men making the dangerous crossing and they make it less likely that genuine refugees get a chance. Survival of the fittest I guess but the gov is failing to keep our borders safe.

User135644 · 25/11/2021 18:43

It's not fair to expect an island to take in so many people all the time. Why aren't Russia doing more? Or other countries with vast space.

Youcunnyfunt · 25/11/2021 18:50

Ah Russia, that well known charitable country.

Grin
Youcunnyfunt · 25/11/2021 18:57

Do I feel sorry for them?

It feels condescending to say I feel sorry for people I have never met. I wish everyone had access to the same privileges and opportunities. It makes me sad that many people struggle so badly in war torn countries.

It is almost always the case that the males in the family start a new life elsewhere, and then bring the rest of the family over when it is safe, and home and work are secured. That’s nothing new. The government should have been fully anticipating this and putting measures into place.

woodhill · 25/11/2021 18:59

But who is going to pay for this?

How about the government sorting out its own population's needs first e.g. affordable housing

User135644 · 25/11/2021 19:12

@Parker231

Refugees don’t have to apply to the first country. Turkey has taken 3.7m refugees from Syria. What has the U.K. done - taken 20,000. The U.K. is pathetic!
How many has Russia taken, or Japan? Why is the onus on a little overpopulated island thousands of miles away?
Allycott · 25/11/2021 19:17

@clarepetal

You CAN help them! You could donate £37 weekly if there's a charity set up for it. But don't stop there - sponsor a family of four! After all the money for this needs to come from somewhere.

Zotter · 25/11/2021 20:02

Sorry I have not read through the thread. I feel compassion for these desperate people. To those asking why do they come to the U.K., it needs to be remembered France has four times as many asylum seekers as the UK, and Germany even more. The U.K. take in 1% of global refugees.

A report by the Refugee Council released on Monday using Home Office data and requests under freedom of information laws has concluded that 61% of migrants who travel by boat are likely to be allowed to stay after claiming asylum. Data also suggests half of those who appeal after losing at the initial decision stage approx win the right to asylum.

According to the report, 98% of those coming across on small boats apply for asylum. This is in contradiction to Pritti Patel who told the House of Lords last month: “All the data and evidence has shown this – that in the last 12 months alone, 70% of the individuals who have come to our country illegally via small boats are single men, who are effectively economic migrants. They are not genuine asylum seekers.”

More crossings are by small boat now and not lorry as security at the Port of Calais in France - where UK border controls are - has been tightened, CoVid has also played a role.

Charities say that asylum seekers in northern France hoping to reach the UK to claim asylum should be able to register their claim with UK officials and then be placed on ferries to be brought to the UK while their claim is processed. If such a scheme was adopted it would achieve what the government has repeatedly promised to do: smash the the business model of the people smugglers.

The U.K. should also allow more refugees to come via resettlement schemes, refugee resettlement is only offered to a very small number of people fleeing conflict. Despite the promise of more safe routes, the number of people resettled under the government’s UK resettlement scheme was 1,171 in the 12 months to September 2021, down by about 45% year on year. Operation Pitting airlifted 15,000 people out of Afghanistan this year and the UK government resettled around 5,000 Syrians a year following the Syrian conflict. Refugee charities are calling for these schemes to be expanded.

Finally, efforts to end global conflicts should continue to be pursued. Apparently the UK’s Department for International Development (DfID) did a great deal of work aimed at this before it was axed as a standalone department and merged with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in 2020. DfID worked to strengthen the infrastructures of fragile countries in the hope of increasing stability there.

pinknikes · 26/11/2021 08:16

My comment stating we should have open borders because "our ancestors were immigrants thousands of years ago" / "we deserve to be punished for colonialism committed by the wealthy elites of Old England" was a sarcastic one.

pinknikes · 26/11/2021 08:23

It's all very well to have empathy for the genuine refugees (or even, for example, the many economic migrants from countries such as Pakistan who are told by the smugglers to chuck away their documents and say they're Syrian) for having the misfortune of being born in a 2nd/3rd world country.

Demanding we fling open the gates, referencing the Jewish refugees of WWII, and flinging the racist label about doesn't make you a more enlightened or better person...than those of us who feel empathy but have the objectivity to see the reality of the situation.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/11/2021 09:06

A report by the Refugee Council released on Monday using Home Office data and requests under freedom of information laws has concluded that 61% of migrants who travel by boat are likely to be allowed to stay after claiming asylum

I already mentioned this upthread, but the % figure who are allowed to stay will also reflect the amnesties brought in over the years to relieve pressure on the immigration authorities and massage the numbers in order to appear to be "dealing with the situation - I posted a Guardian link last Friday at 20.46 if you want to read it

As so often, what's presented - especially by the hardly-disinterested Refugee Council - and what's the real case can differ

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