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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be upset that my husband said he has 3 kids when he has 4?

632 replies

LaGauchiste · 15/11/2021 16:05

I haven't spoke to my husband for 2 days He thinks I am being unfair, and making a big deal out of nothing. I keep thinking about it, and do not feel like I am being unfair at all.

Friday night, we went to the pub with his 2 new colleagues and their partners. We were just chatting, when one of the ladies asked him " So how many kids do you have?" He replied by saying that he had 3 sons. The woman proceeded to say " So all boys no girls?"
He laughed and said "yup".

At that point I wanted to cry and punch the table so badly. WE HAVE A DAUGHTER. My 20 yo daughter passed away in 2019. I am so angry and upset that he said that.

I confronted him at home , and he saw nothing wrong with it : " Well she's dead, we don't have 4 children anymore".

I grabbed my purse and went to my sister's house. Haven't talked to him since. He keeps messaging me telling me how much he loves me, that I need to get over my, OUR, daughter's death.

Aibu? I never want to see him again.

OP posts:
Wildheartsease · 15/11/2021 22:46

Sorry for your loss. It must be unbearable for both of you.
Anything that helps you manage this alongside your life is good... it is just a shame that you need different approaches right now. His harsh response sounds full of pain to me.

You say that you accept your own sorrow but want him to be happy eventually. I expect that he wishes the same for you.

Someone else's pain is also very very hard to bear.

No you are not unreasonable but nor is he.

2018SoFarSoGreat · 15/11/2021 22:47

My heart hurts for you, @LaGauchiste. It truly does. I totally get your want to be sad forever. I have not lost a child, but those I've loved dearly. I felt horribly guilty smiling or laughing, even fleetingly, afterwards, for quite some time. It feels like a betrayal. I get that.

I'm hoping that in time you will be able to smile at a memory, a picture, a moment. In time. Be kind to yourself until then. Flowers

Hankunamatata · 15/11/2021 22:47

@LaGauchiste

Thank you to all the sympathetic people who took their time to give me advice.

I don't want any counselling, I am probably going to sound crazy, but I want to be sad forever, I would feel like I am betraying her if I ever felt OK again. I want to die sad. However, I want my husband to get better and manage to live with the grief.

Perhaps that's the issue Op, your dh doesnt want to be sad anymore. Perhaps he is compartmentalising. You both need counselling not to feel better or get over it but perhaps to agree rules to each others grief and communicate
Lovesacake · 15/11/2021 22:53

If he was a good, kind father to your daughter and loved her deeply then I would forgive him. If his comment/treatment of you is indicative of how much your daughter meant to him then I would walk away and not look back x

ImustLearn2Cook · 15/11/2021 22:54

@LaGauchiste Flowers

EarthSight · 15/11/2021 22:54

@LaGauchiste

Thank you to all the sympathetic people who took their time to give me advice.

I don't want any counselling, I am probably going to sound crazy, but I want to be sad forever, I would feel like I am betraying her if I ever felt OK again. I want to die sad. However, I want my husband to get better and manage to live with the grief.

I'm sorry for your loss. I haven't been through anything similar.

I understand why you don't want counselling. Sometimes, when you don't have something or someone any more, invoking the pain associated with them is the only way to keep them close, to make them viscerally alive and currently part of your life.

I don't think you want to let go of that pain, because you don't want to let go of her. You don't want to move on to the next phase which is to enjoy meals out with people and not be thinking about her, to describe your children as '3' instead of '4', to be able to live just about ok, without her. You don't want to accept that she's not here. It's not time for you. Maybe it never will be.

I'm sorry your husband doesn't want to talk about it like you do. You probably feel like he's shutting away her memory and you still very much want to keep it going. This pub incident was one more thing you couldn't control - just like your daughter dying, someone was almost foisting a sort of idea on you that you didn't want and can't control - that you now have 3 living children, when you find that idea so distressing and insulting to your daughter's memory.

I don't condone the way your husband is dealing with it at home, but I do sympathise why he doesn't want to tell new people about his daughter. That's the way some people deal with pain - they just don't want to open up that box over and over again, they don't want to keep explaining. It cuts them each time.

Although you have the right to grieve, you also need to decide if you want to continue with this conflict between you and your husband and not try to resolve it. You've both been through a lot, and if these conflicts become more commonplace, I don't see a happy future for you as a couple. I understand that you don't want to have individual counselling, but would you consider couple's grief counselling? Would he?

NeverChange · 15/11/2021 22:58

I really don't want to upset you further so please see this with the good intentions that are meant rather than an attack on you.

She was alive for 20 years. She brought joy to yourself for 20 years. Yet you are focusing on her death rather than her life and the good memories. Would she have wanted to see you so sad or would she want to you to be happy again and enjoy your life?

How deeply and how long someone grieves isn't a reflection of the pain they feel or how much they miss someone. Everyone does it differently.

A relative of mine died young and knew she was dying and asked us all to make sure her death didn't cause anyone else to stop living. She was very worried about her mum at the time given their closeness. It brought a lot of comfort to us all, especially her mum and sister.

I know you don't want counselling but I really think it would be of benefit. It may help with the pain, angry and sadness. It cannot make your feel any worst but may just help in some small way to make this more manageable.

Kite22 · 15/11/2021 23:02

@IHateCoronavirus

Oh op, my heart is bleeding for you. Your pain is palpable. Flowers the grief of a child is like no other, because you not only lose them but part of you too. We lost our youngest DD in 2015. At first DH and I grieved the same and then all of a sudden he seemed to move on without me. It was another kind of pain on top of what I was already feeling. When I would tell anyone and everyone about DD, he would only talk about the ones that remained. Then one day, in a similar incident to yours, I asked him why. He said that those people didn’t matter enough to share our precious girl with. He neither needed their acknowledgment or their sympathy, because with that he runs the risk of being hurt or angered. If they said the wrong thing as people sometimes do, he wasn’t yet in a place to forgive them, and as he worked with them everyday, he needed things to be normal. Just to survive each day. I got it then. We are 6 and a half years into our journey now, and we are walking at the same pace again, grieving her always but in a more gentle way. Some days still hurt like hell. Don’t give up yet. He has handled his explanation clumsily and on the defensive. You have been with him along time, I’m willing to bet he was a good husband and father. I could be wrong, but if he was give it time. Sending you a warm hug from one grieving mum to another Flowers
I think this is really insightful and, I hope, potentially helpful for the OP. Thank you for posting IhateCoronavirus, it can't be an easy thing to write.

@LaGauchiste I am very sad to read your last post. I am sure that isn't what your dd would want. I hope you find peace and a way forward to understand the different responses from each of your ds's and also from your dh.

GoldenBlue · 15/11/2021 23:08

@LaGauchiste

Thank you to all the sympathetic people who took their time to give me advice.

I don't want any counselling, I am probably going to sound crazy, but I want to be sad forever, I would feel like I am betraying her if I ever felt OK again. I want to die sad. However, I want my husband to get better and manage to live with the grief.

It's ok op, you will love your DD forever, and you will mourn her loss forever. But we learn to cope with it better (mostly) over time.

We mourn differently, and at different paces. It's unpredictable and that makes it very hard when mourning alongside another person.

Try to be gentle with each other even when pain makes you spiky.

I remember acting similarly when my ex didn't include our DS in numbers. At the time that was too raw for me and it hurt.

It's been 23 years now and sometimes I don't include him in my count if the people are new and I'm not ready for that intimate conversation. But my DS is never far from my thoughts and always loved.

My kids and I mention him often and I do talk of him with others as I think it's important not to be a taboo subject. But my ex doesn't talk of him, not because he doesn't care but because the pain is still too raw, he thinks he'll break if me let's it out. I didn't always understand that.

So sorry for your loss, thinking of you

amoobaa · 15/11/2021 23:08

@LaGauchiste

Dear OP,

When my sister died, my Dad said the hospital staff told him and my mum that they should “go to counselling because most couples don’t survive this and the majority get divorced”

They didn’t get counselling.

But they also didn’t divorce.

I think they dealt with things differently but they somehow managed to draw strength from one another... perhaps because they allowed each other to grieve in their own way.

The pain will never go away.

When my Dad died, someone sent a card that said the pain of grief will never go completely, because grief is the price we pay for love. The greater the love, the greater the pain.

It might be that your husband cannot connect with those feelings of grief because they will overwhelm him if he does. So he keeps them at arms length and in doing so, there’s a distance created between the two of you.

He may be doing it to avoid distressing conversations. And be unaware of what he’s doing.

You need each other. Your sons need you both.

I needed my parents, even when grief was suffocating them.

Don’t let anyone tell you there is a right or wrong way to grieve.

You will always have a daughter.

I will always have a sister.

But not everybody knows how to navigate grief the same way as you... and your husband is grieving too- even if sometimes it doesn’t feel like the same as your grief.

My Dad said that the hardest part is when the funeral is over and everyone carries on. The world keeps spinning and people stop asking, stop mentioning your daughter, stop acknowledging your loss- scared of making you feel worse.

You are not alone. You’re feelings are valid. Grief is devastating.

Try communicating with your husband. Acknowledge his feelings, even if he finds it hard or does it differently to you.

I am so sorry that your daughter has died. I cannot even begin to fathom how you must feel.

All I know, is that time will not diminish your loss. But your love for her will always be greater. And that’s why your grief will stay with you forever.

I hope you find some peace in the small things. And that you allow yourself to live in a way that pays tribute your daughter. To honour each day and not feel guilty for smiling.

My Dad and my sister never got to grow old. So I try and honour the time I have and remember that each day I get is a privilege not a guarantee.

But I have lost a parent and a sibling. Not a child. And even if I had, everyone is unique.

It’s been 30 years and my Mum still cries.

I wouldn’t dream of telling her it’s time to move on.

Feelings are not mutually exclusive. You can be happy and devastated in the same breath.

You will always be a mother to four.

Most importantly, making the most of everything you still have doesn’t mean you have forgotten her.

Even at my happiest, when I’m laughing out loud, I am always just a gasp away from tears. But my God, I fight to be happy and when I smile, I think of them and say: “I’m wearing the smile you gave me”

Torturing ourselves won’t bring them back.

But like you, I struggle to let the sadness go, it would feel like an abandonment. But I’m working on it.

And I know my Dad would want me to make the most of all I have.

What would your daughter have wanted for you? Flowers

RampantIvy · 15/11/2021 23:09

I am so sorry for your loss Flowers

DH's sister died at 19. When I first met him and was getting to know him I asked if he had any brothers or sisters. He said that he had one sister left.

I agree that technically neither of you were wrong, and I'm sorry that your husband upset you, but he will still be hurting inside as well.

saraclara · 15/11/2021 23:11

@LaGauchiste

Thank you to all the sympathetic people who took their time to give me advice.

I don't want any counselling, I am probably going to sound crazy, but I want to be sad forever, I would feel like I am betraying her if I ever felt OK again. I want to die sad. However, I want my husband to get better and manage to live with the grief.

It must be exhausting to be with someone who's determined to be sad forever. It's not a life for him, and it must be awful for your sons too.

Is that really what your daughter would want? For you to be sad forever, and to consequently make her father and brothers' lives even worse?

I want my husband to get better and manage to live with the grief.
How can her, when he has to live with you being permanently sad, and completely losing it with him when he finds a way to manage his grief in this kind of situation?

Seriously, you are not well. It's no betrayal of your daughter for you to see a therapist and start to manage your own grief. in fact you'll remember her better if you're well.

If she could see what's happening to you and her dad right now, how would she feel?

JurgensCakeBaby · 15/11/2021 23:21

Saying 3 in the moment because he didn't want to acknowledge the situation in the moment or in future to colleagues is ok. The way he spoke to you after isn't.
I lost someone very close to me, very young and I understand the pain, but you have other children too and it's not fair to stay sad forever because you feel you should. If you do you have to accept our will affect your other relationships. There will always be sadness in a part of my heart but I have to try and live the best life I can, because they can't do that anymore. How long ago did your daughter pass?

DeadButDelicious · 15/11/2021 23:26

I don't think he was unreasonable to not want to get into the loss of your daughter in the pub with people he doesn't really know. I can understand that but him saying to you that you now only have 3 children because she's no longer with you would be a hard line for me.

My first daughter passed away late in pregnancy and whilst I don't always say I have two children when people I don't know ask, in private, with our families and when it's just us, she is always included and I will always have two children. It's just that one of them is no longer here. I can completely understand why you are so upset. It's one thing to try and avoid an uncomfortable conversation with new colleagues it's quite another to say that you now have one less child because she has passed away and that you need to 'get over it'. I don't think I could get past that to be honest.

Tailendofsummer · 15/11/2021 23:27

OP my DM lost a child at almost the same age as your dd. I am sure a part of her stayed sad for ever. She lived almost 40 years afterwards, and I don't think her pleasure in her other children, or her joy in her grandchildren weren't real. She helped a lot of other people and took pleasure in the little things. I can't think that for a second she forget her lost child. But her life had room for this grief and for a rewarding life. I hope you can find some peace Flowers

Autumnleaves4 · 15/11/2021 23:35

I am so sorry for your loss and can’t imagine the pain you are in.
What your husband said to you afterwards was unkind but people can lash out in grief and think about your other children. Please don’t make hasty decisions while grieving is so raw.
Re the conversation it was very wrong to say you have 3 children and all boys without mentioning your lost daughter but equally you can’t say you ‘have’ 4 when you no longer do. Moving forward, if you and DH can get past this ŷou need to agree how you will both answer these questions and saying to colleagues we have 3 now as sadly we lost our daughter would be the thing to say, the loss of a child is something colleagues could reasonably be expected to know. They would have said I am so sorry and that would have dealt with the situation. Denying a child or pretending you still have one are both equally wrong, our culture isn’t great about talking about death.
Hopefully you can resolve this with your DH.

Also re your sadness that is completely understandable initially but to say you want to stay sad is absolutely not fair on your other children, they have suffered loss too and seeing their mother sad for so long would cause them further pain, your daughter also wouldn’t want that.

Bagamoyo1 · 15/11/2021 23:43

@Driposaurus

I know a bereaved parent who will say she has two children when asked how many children she has, depending on the audience. Explaining about her son can derail a conversation and she doesn’t always want the derailment.
I agree.

My brother died when I was a teenager. If people ask if I have any siblings , sometimes I say no, and sometimes I say I had a brother but he died. It depends on the situation, the people, and how I’m feeling at the time.

Rrrob · 15/11/2021 23:48

I agree wholeheartedly with @IHateCoronavirus. My eldest daughter died in 2019. She was our only child at the time and we’ve had many awful situations of being asked if we had any children. We now have two younger children and still find it tricky when people ask if they are our first/ how many children we have.

I had a similar experience to you OP when an estate agent asked if we had children and DH said no. I was heartbroken. He talked about it afterwards and whilst I thought he was disrespecting her memory, he said similar to the pp’s husband, that the estate agent didn’t need to know, he wasn’t part of her story and we didn’t need his pity. Telling him would have made it harder for us.

We now tell new friends the truth, and people we want to know, but tend not to tell random people such as the yoga teacher who asks etc. I’m sorry you’ve had this painful experience. Please try to talk it through with your DH, you have been through a horrendous experience together and need to support each other. If you want to chat to someone else who understands exactly what you’re going through please PM me.

Anordinarymum · 16/11/2021 00:04

@LaGauchiste

I haven't spoke to my husband for 2 days He thinks I am being unfair, and making a big deal out of nothing. I keep thinking about it, and do not feel like I am being unfair at all.

Friday night, we went to the pub with his 2 new colleagues and their partners. We were just chatting, when one of the ladies asked him " So how many kids do you have?" He replied by saying that he had 3 sons. The woman proceeded to say " So all boys no girls?"
He laughed and said "yup".

At that point I wanted to cry and punch the table so badly. WE HAVE A DAUGHTER. My 20 yo daughter passed away in 2019. I am so angry and upset that he said that.

I confronted him at home , and he saw nothing wrong with it : " Well she's dead, we don't have 4 children anymore".

I grabbed my purse and went to my sister's house. Haven't talked to him since. He keeps messaging me telling me how much he loves me, that I need to get over my, OUR, daughter's death.

Aibu? I never want to see him again.

This was not the time to bring up the death of your daughter. It's personal information he did not want to share with new people.
Sunshine4you · 16/11/2021 00:09

So sorry for your loss.

QueeniesCroft · 16/11/2021 00:14

I think it's important to remember how soon it is for both of you after your daughter's death. Two years in, I was just barely beginning to feel like I was ever going to feel normal again. I remember feeling that I needed to cling to my sadness, because she deserved to be missed, and to resent every day taking me further and further away from her. These things are normal and in no way wrong, or selfish. One day, I just slightly change the way I thought, and I began to think about having to get through the rest of my life without her, and how I was going to do that (not very well as it turned out, but it does get better in tiny increments!).

Lots of people will tell you that you are doing this or that the wrong way and that you are harming those around you, but I remember all too well how I struggled, and in some ways I still do, so many years later. Talking about this and working out together how you will deal with it is the only way through, and that can be painful, I know. Sometimes I found that the only way to cope with anything social was to block out anything else and not allow myself to think about my loss and pain (almost to pretend to myself that my daughter was with a babysitter or in the next room), is it possible that your husband was doing the same? If so, perhaps he was so harsh to you afterwards because he didn't want to admit to that?

My daughter died, during her birth, in December 2006. I still cry for her, not every day now, but certainly a few times a week. It's a gentler, less savage pain now, but it never entirely goes away. I actually don't mind about that, it seems appropriate.

TirednWorried · 16/11/2021 00:14

Its because he doesn't want to talk about something so personally painful with people he hardly knows.

backtolifebacktoreality · 16/11/2021 00:15

This isn't an excuse, but because you were out with new friends, he probably didn't know what to say as he didn't want to bring the atmosphere down.

It's a conversation you and your husband need to have so you know what best to say when this question gets asked again!

Satlie2019 · 16/11/2021 00:17

OP, I am so sorry for your loss, I can't imagine what you and your husband have been through. I really think your husband is probably just processing things differently. You have four children, you always will and I am sure your husband knows that too.

This is very different to what you will have gone through, so I hope you don't mind me sharing, but my husband and I lost a little girl to stillbirth a few years ago. Obviously very different to your situation. However, she is our first born child and I love her so much. I don't always share with people about her though. Most people who I have met since the birth of our son think we only have one child. I don't want to bring up such personal grief and sadness by mentioning her, and people often don't know how to react if I do mention her. Of course I think of her every time someone asks if we have any other children and remember her. I do tell some people when I think the time is right, but probably would not at a meal, although I think it would be perfectly correct for someone to share such a thing in any situation if it felt right to them to do so. My husband is even more reticent to mention her. I find talking about her loss when the situation is right for me helpful, for him it always just makes him sad. Everyone processes things differently. I know your loss is so much greater than what we have been through, but I wanted to share how I have found things.

Jamdown123 · 16/11/2021 00:28

@LaGauchiste

Thank you to all the sympathetic people who took their time to give me advice.

I don't want any counselling, I am probably going to sound crazy, but I want to be sad forever, I would feel like I am betraying her if I ever felt OK again. I want to die sad. However, I want my husband to get better and manage to live with the grief.

My dear, what a hard hard thing to go through. I feel your emotion even in your messages.

You say you do not want therapy, I just want to say that some therapies are not at a ll about 'getting over' someone who has passed away, but instead living with them in your life in a way that feels more full, more active, when you can engage in the memory of them often in ways that are not sad.

I might be cocking this up entirely, but look up narrative therapy and have a bit of a read whenever you can. Its really not about moving on at all.

I have had people I love pass away, and if I'm to be honest with you, I just think about it as a while before I'll be with them again. I can't bear to think I won't connect with them again ever, so I might be a little like you. In fact, thinking that might happen makes me not fear death at all really.

xx