AIBU to wonder why France is being blamed for allowing migrants to cross the English channel to uk?

[Rebbecia1234]

Surely, UK has as much responsibility as any other country to accept asylum seekers fleeing from desperate situations? Why should France be tasked with the responsibility of preventing asylum seekers to cross the English channel in boats to the UK?

They are not asylum seekers, but rather they are financial migrants

Over 60% are, after the arduous application process, accepted as asylum seekers. Categorical proof that you're actually wrong.

It's disappointing how many people accept 'alternative facts', because it suits their ignorance to do so.

We really have to work with the French to minimise these opportunities

That is a joke right? The same country that closed down the ports with no notice at all last Christmas and left thousands of lorry drivers stranded over Christmas, or the threats to cut electricity, create blockades, that threatened the people of Jersey in boats or the calls for actual war from prominent mayors. I mean in what world do people actually live in if they can not see that the French have absolutely NO intention of working with the British. You need to start reading and looking at the facts.

People die in the channel, they die and get exploited all the way through from their home nation, this is people trafficking, it is not some friendly charity offering help to the vulnerable but hardened criminal gangs operating. They should be prosecuted with thirty year jail terms, the book should be thrown at them every time, they have more blood on their hands than anyone else. The idea that the migrants' pigeon English is the reason why they can't work in France is quite frankly ridiculous when most countries run language courses for those that are resettling.

I am sorry but things have turned ugly in France, and it is reflecting on their poor decision making skills around migration and fishing.

*in

@notimagain I totally agree, but that’s why I blame the french, it’s not the people’s fault, it’s the government playing politics with people’s lives

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

It's been the same throught out history. The UK is the last outpost of the West of Europe. Anyone fleeing stops here cos the next step is too big.

The UK has the geographic disadvanatages of being an island and the furthest you can go West!

I'd suggest having a look at an atlas...

Has the UK actually paid the French at this stage? I know a month ago the UK was whinging about the French not doing what they were being paid to do but hadn't actually paid up at that stage.

Yes the UK have paid sadly thanks, and what happened? Precisely nothing even more people came the following day I seem to remember, although the French did a rather good show of looking terribly officious during the inspection.

@Fairylights25

We really have to work with the French to minimise these opportunities

That is a joke right? The same country that closed down the ports with no notice at all last Christmas and left thousands of lorry drivers stranded over Christmas, or the threats to cut electricity, create blockades, that threatened the people of Jersey in boats or the calls for actual war from prominent mayors. I mean in what world do people actually live in if they can not see that the French have absolutely NO intention of working with the British. You need to start reading and looking at the facts.

People die in the channel, they die and get exploited all the way through from their home nation, this is people trafficking, it is not some friendly charity offering help to the vulnerable but hardened criminal gangs operating. They should be prosecuted with thirty year jail terms, the book should be thrown at them every time, they have more blood on their hands than anyone else. The idea that the migrants' pigeon English is the reason why they can't work in France is quite frankly ridiculous when most countries run language courses for those that are resettling.

I am sorry but things have turned ugly in France, and it is reflecting on their poor decision making skills around migration and fishing.

OK, fine - the French need to get tough on the people smugglers - and we (you) are going to tell them to get it done Right now. Except you're not because we apparently can't work with them.

Good luck with that.

since Brexit, the UK has made itself even more of a magnet for asylum seekers, since it can no longer legally return people who managed to cross the Channel. A bit of an own goal, eh?

According to this report in the House of Commons Library our success rate under the Dublin regulation was only 7% between 2015 and 2018;

How many incoming and outgoing transfers are there under Dublin III?
According to Home Office figures, between 2015 and 2018, 7,365 incoming requests were made to transfer people into the UK under the Dublin regulation, from which 2,365 people were transferred to the UK (some requests may still be pending).

This means that the UK accepted around 33% of requests. During the same period, the UK made 18,953 outgoing requests to transfer people to other Member States, from which 1,395 people were transferred abroad. This amounts to around 7% of outgoing requests by the UK resulting in a transfer.

In 2018, the UK received a total of 37,453 asylum applications, and made 5,510 outgoing transfer requests under Dublin III. Of these 5,510 requests, 209 migrants were transferred out of the UK under Dublin III, whilst 1,215 came in, making the UK a net recipient in 2018.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/what-is-the-dublin-iii-regulation-will-it-be-affected-by-brexit/

I am sorry but things have turned ugly in France

Thing is they haven’t, though I do sense in the last few days, for reasons that passéth understanding (actually that’s wrong, they are perfectly understandable) some in the UK MSM have started to blame the EU,/Macron/France for everything from the next wave of Covid to the price of fuel…

The idea that the migrants' pigeon English is the reason why they can't work in France is quite frankly ridiculous when most countries run language courses for those that are resettling.

The reason many migrants can’t work in France, or find it very difficult to do so straight off the boat/train is not just language skills, it is that most jobs (possibly right through from serving in restaurants through to running a Government Department) require formal qualifications…so not only has the migrant got to brush up on language skills, they might also have to go through two or three years of Lycee pro or similar before getting anywhere near a day job. Compare and contrast with the UK …

I would have thought such a regime might be possible in the Uk and might well reduce some of the “pull”, and all of course something entirely in the gift of Westminster, not the EU or Macron.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

There's this place called Ireland to the west of Britain. Or maybe you consider it part of Britain?

Huh?

Are you looking to be insulted?

British Isles, if it make you feel happier!

The British Isles is a contentious term that is used by the British, not the Irish, to describe the Islands.

You stated "the UK is the last outpost of the west of Europe" and "the UK has the geographic disadvantages of being an island and the furthest you can go west".

Firstly, the UK is not an island. Secondly, the discussion is about migrants/refugees arriving in the UK, not in these islands. If it was about them arriving in these islands, then it would be considerably more complex as the Dublin Rules apply to Ireland but don't apply to the UK. There are also different governments dealing with the issues and different laws in each jurisdiction.

The reason many migrants can’t work in France, or find it very difficult to do so straight off the boat/train is not just language skills, it is that most jobs (possibly right through from serving in restaurants through to running a Government Department) require formal qualifications…so not only has the migrant got to brush up on language skills, they might also have to go through two or three years of Lycee pro or similar before getting anywhere near a day job. Compare and contrast with the UK …

I would have thought such a regime might be possible in the Uk and might well reduce some of the “pull”, and all of course something entirely in the gift of Westminster, not the EU or Macron.

So Westminster needs to make us more like France, and that'll stop the "pull"?

@notimagain thank you for your posts, I'm finding them really interesting
I live right where the boats come in to land so its very enlightening to hear it from another perspective and what France is doing

The British Isles is a contentious term that is used by the British, not the Irish, to describe the Islands.

You stated "the UK is the last outpost of the west of Europe" and "the UK has the geographic disadvantages of being an island and the furthest you can go west".

Firstly, the UK is not an island. Secondly, the discussion is about migrants/refugees arriving in the UK, not in these islands. If it was about them arriving in these islands, then it would be considerably more complex as the Dublin Rules apply to Ireland but don't apply to the UK. There are also different governments dealing with the issues and different laws in each jurisdiction.

As I said, can we retrun tot he subject of the thread rather than insist of centering anyine ekses politics?

To be honest anyone who feels the need to tytpoe that out, on a UK/British Isles focussed board might want to check why?

I am a fully functioning adult of a certain age. I am fully aware that we are ' a collection of islands' and that many areas have devolved governments and even that part of the British Isles are not in the UK. However on many threads, like many people, I will use "the UK" as a loose approximation of here, not the European mainland etc. And, to be honest, I couldn't care if some do find it offensive, I am British. I can't help it if you find that offensive.

We are an island nation, we are as far West as is possible to go before the big watery gap. That obviously includes both parts of the island of Ireland. Like it, lump it. I am not bothered!

We'll just have to lump it then I guess. Seems you can't get on with anyone on either side of a watery gap.

Given the deletion.... no comment !!

France doesn’t want them, and they’re pissed off with the U.K. anyway, so regardless of how much they’re being paid, they’re hardly going to put themselves out too much to stop them.

Did anyone else see a recent Saving Lives At Sea, where the RNLI rescued 34 migrants packed into a dinghy in mid channel, with the engine packed up?
It was freezing, and most of them had totally inadequate clothing.

One of the lifeboat crew was in tears as he told how he said something like ‘OK mate?’ to a young boy migrant, who replied, ‘You my friend.’
It was very moving.

@HoardingSamphireSaurus - the first two paragraphs of your last post are unintellible due to, what I assume are, typos. The rest is classic Daily Mail style xenophobic froth

Gerard Darmanin (French interior minister) says that one of the main problems is that the UK makes itself so attractive to migrants - whether economic or refugees - that they actively want to get to the UK and they are not interested in stopping in France or any of the other countries that they pass through.

His point is that the UK has a massive illegal / informal economy, very lax enforcement of employment laws, and a health service that is free to all at the point of service. So migrants can work and receive medical care in a way that is not open to them in more tightly regulated countries. This is certainly true in France.

It's very hard to stop the flow of migrants from the east / south access points into Europe to the north of France: there are very few actively managed borders in the Schengen area.

The UK pays around £54M a year for this service. It's peanuts for the work that they are expecting to be done. What Darmanin is saying is that if the UK made itself less attractive to migrants by tightening up on the black economy / exploitation of migrants, and made access to the health / education / benefits systems more restricted, the driving force behind the migration would be reduced to a level that could be managed better.

It is up to the French to address their people smugglers, I (nor anyone else) should be having to tell them the obvious that people are dying due to their game playing. This has not been a big problem in the past, so it is obvious that a choice is being made to let people attempt the crossing and die in the process. France seem to be turning into Belarus.

Yes, chronic arthritis does that to my typing.

And you could just stop with the personal insults.

And had you read me properly you would see that you are mistaken. But don't let that stop your fun!

@workwoes123

Gerard Darmanin (French interior minister) says that one of the main problems is that the UK makes itself so attractive to migrants - whether economic or refugees - that they actively want to get to the UK and they are not interested in stopping in France or any of the other countries that they pass through.

His point is that the UK has a massive illegal / informal economy, very lax enforcement of employment laws, and a health service that is free to all at the point of service. So migrants can work and receive medical care in a way that is not open to them in more tightly regulated countries. This is certainly true in France.

It's very hard to stop the flow of migrants from the east / south access points into Europe to the north of France: there are very few actively managed borders in the Schengen area.

The UK pays around £54M a year for this service. It's peanuts for the work that they are expecting to be done. What Darmanin is saying is that if the UK made itself less attractive to migrants by tightening up on the black economy / exploitation of migrants, and made access to the health / education / benefits systems more restricted, the driving force behind the migration would be reduced to a level that could be managed better.

Yeah - if only we were more tightly regulated like France.........er no thanks.

I am all for better enforcement than we have - but I can do without the crazy levels of French State intervention and regulation that make it so hard to get a start in any job. Some of my French colleagues over the years actually came here to escape it.

I don't know why we seem to have a continuing narrative that we should be more like France, Belgium etc

@HoardingSamphireSaurus - sorry to hear about your arthritis. I suffer from it too and it's not fun.

And had you read me properly you would see that you are mistaken.

I did read you properly and I stand by my comment on the froth.