AIBU to wonder why France is being blamed for allowing migrants to cross the English channel to uk?

[Rebbecia1234]

Surely, UK has as much responsibility as any other country to accept asylum seekers fleeing from desperate situations? Why should France be tasked with the responsibility of preventing asylum seekers to cross the English channel in boats to the UK?

…and with regard to the French not stopping them:

france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/occitanie/pyrenees-orientales/temoignage-pyrenees-orientales-entre-cerbere-et-le-perthus-l-afflux-de-migrants-inquiete-2313985.html

We’re well down south and it’s not unusual to hear of groups being rounded up either at road side checks or even being found (sadly sometimes dead) in the mountains having tried to walk across from Spain….

I don’t know WTF the answer is but the idea that nothing is done on the French side to try and stop the flow is erroneous.

"1) There are official routes for asylum seekers to be placed; they are supposed to register for asylum in the first safe country rather than continue travelling (a sort of queue jumping argument; you can argue how many spaces there should be but systems do exist to take in asylum seekers)"

People have pointed this out already, but worth repeating...
THIS IS NOT TRUE!
It used to be true when the UK was in the EU (because of the Dublin regulations), but since Brexit, the UK has made itself even more of a magnet for asylum seekers, since it can no longer legally return people who managed to cross the Channel. A bit of an own goal, eh?

Also note: these people crossing the Channel do so because they really want to.
E.g. they have family here already. Some (not all) have in fact very legitimate cases to apply for asylum in the UK specifically. But in practice, there is currently no mechanism to do so, unless they manage to cross the Channel. The impossibility for genuine refugees (including children trying to reunite with relatives) to apply from abroad creates this horrendous situation.
Again, there was mechanisms to deal with this before Brexit, but not anymore...

I havent read all your posts as the first shows you don’t understand

The agreement is asylum seekers are looked after by the first country they arrive at, so France, or another European country, not that they are then shoved across the North Sea to us

France however doesn’t want them, therefore doesn’t deal with them as they should, allows them and economic refugees to set up camps in Calais

As there are no borders in the EU no one is stopping them leaving whatever country they arrived at to travel to France and then onto us.

They should automatically be sent back to France, who can send them back to whatever country they arrived at so they can be dealt with there

If they are crossing from France to UK then they are not seeking asylum because they are perfectly safe in France.

They are not asylum seekers, but rather they are financial migrants

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

Yes! And that applies to every country back up the line *@MRex*

France, Italy, all across mainlaind Europe.

The UK has the geographic disadvanatages of being an island and the furthest you can go West! So it becomes more our problem than not at some point.

There's this place called Ireland to the west of Britain. Or maybe you consider it part of Britain?

I sail and have a boat! The English Channel UK is the worst stretch of water I would want to be at the moment November/December!

France are being paid millions and millions to police the border. They have been filmed repeatedly standing around watching the boats launch from the beaches. The UK have a team in Calais, but obviously we can not police the border INSIDE another country.

France are using migrants (not unlike other European countries I might add looking at you Belarus) to barter over fishing rights. The fact that actual human beings, children and babies are drowning daily does not seem to faze them. Over the last few months France have become a hostile nation towards the UK, cranked up considerably now ready for the election and Macron is fighting for his political life. Expect things to get worse not better. I hope you have your Christmas shopping stocked up because for sure that is coming next in time for Christmas.

What we are seeing now is the true colours of our 'allies' and neighbours the French, threatening to cut off electricity, blockade the channel tunnel and the ports. What this really tells us is that we they were very happy when we footing the bill to the tune of tens of billions every year so their agricultural department could receive huge EU handouts, but now that easy money has run dry they will find another way via demanding and blackmailing us over people trafficking.

My French friends are embarrassed and mortified, and now also pretty terrified at the prospect of having their first far right President in the shape of Monsieur Zemmour.

@Chloemol

I havent read all your posts as the first shows you don’t understand

The agreement is asylum seekers are looked after by the first country they arrive at, so France, or another European country, not that they are then shoved across the North Sea to us

France however doesn’t want them, therefore doesn’t deal with them as they should, allows them and economic refugees to set up camps in Calais

As there are no borders in the EU no one is stopping them leaving whatever country they arrived at to travel to France and then onto us.

They should automatically be sent back to France, who can send them back to whatever country they arrived at so they can be dealt with there

@Chloemol

Seems like you were wrong with the information in your post. Maybe you should have read the full thread after all!

There's this place called Ireland to the west of Britain. Or maybe you consider it part of Britain?

Huh?

Are you looking to be insulted?

British Isles, if it make you feel happier!

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

Also, as the UK does not have an ID card system it is far easier to get work in the black economy than it is in France. That's actually not due to ID cards - it's due to enforcement and much more stringent penalties in France and many other European countries.

I agree enforcement is important, but assessing if an individual can work is much more straight forward with ID cards in place. It is certainly sighted by French politicians as one of a number of reasons migrants look to come to the UK. The main one being language and relatives already here.

The U.K. needs to become stricter. Basically we need to kill appeal to come here in the first place. Make working under the table harder, No nhs unless you can prove you are entitled to it not this treat first ask later etc

@MRex

1) There are official routes for asylum seekers to be placed; they are supposed to register for asylum in the first safe country rather than continue travelling (a sort of queue jumping argument; you can argue how many spaces there should be but systems do exist to take in asylum seekers) 2) The boats are run by criminal organisations of people traffickers and the French border force are paid by the UK government to stop them operating 3) It's incredibly unsafe for individuals to cross with all the shipping and in unsafe overcrowded boats; lots of people have drowned trying to make the crossing, including children, that is why it should not be encouraged as a route.

Nailed it. Absolutely spot on

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

There's this place called Ireland to the west of Britain. Or maybe you consider it part of Britain?

Huh?

Are you looking to be insulted?

British Isles, if it make you feel happier!

British Isles is a geographic term but if we're talking in terms of sovereignty, politics etc then the Republic of Ireland is as independent of Britain as I don't know, Lithuania for example.

I am not looking to be insulted but Irish people get very very tired of being treated by some as an outpost of Britain rather than an independent country. And of Irish people being described as British. It's really fucking annoying.

I would also add that France have longed to leave the EU, they are/were more eurosceptic than us and have been for years. The fact that the UK have left and nothing much has happened does not help Macron whom sees himself as the next Angela Merkel running the bloc. So he is creating drama, he is creating problems as he needs to survive.
It is a fact that Boris beats Macron in French polling consistently. Why? Because more than anything France want to become their own nation again, and now the UK have left it is a bigger sinking ship than it was before. What I see is pure French envy that we have left. Bitterness that we have gone our own way. They need a referendum - and maybe the riots will then stop. They might just get one with Zemmour. who knows?

Of course France must take a lot of the blame. They are clearly turning a blind eye while taking huge sums of money from the UK, with no doubt majority support from their taxpaying public. I must say when I hear these the news every day about conditions in Dover reception centres etc, it can be hard to feel sympathy, as these people are choosing (and paying) to leave many safe countries behind them, en route to the one they feel will give them the most. Actual refugees, fleeing persecution, fine, but most of those crossing the channel are economic migrants who are breaking the law.

When the UK was part of the EU France had more obligation to work with the UK to deal with it. Now it’s not in France’s interest to stop them as they end up with huge camps of people basically waiting.

I started a thread last week regarding how the migrant issue will be solved once climate change really kicks in. I’m afraid once the numbers are high enough there’s going to be a very serious issue as to where to house millions of displaced people.

When the UK was part of the EU France had more obligation to work with the UK to deal with it

Well then we should cancel the cheque for the millions and the navy should police the channel and turn the boats back. Also once the word gets out France is green lighting migrants to the UK you can expect millions more migrants to make their way to France, so an own goal, as most won't make it across, so that will leave France with an even bigger migrant crisis than the one it currently has now. Not a clever move.

@MaskingForIt

YANBU. If the migrants were carrying on through Britain to Ireland we’d be pumping their life jackets up and giving them sandwiches, not stopping them.

Comedy, thy name is MaskingForIt

I am not looking to be insulted but Irish people get very very tired of being treated by some as an outpost of Britain rather than an independent country. And of Irish people being described as British. It's really fucking annoying.

My apologies for not centring the feelings of Irish people on a thread about refugees!

And yes, British Isles, seeing as the comment you objected to was about the geography.

Can we get back to the safety and dignity of refugees now?

I agree enforcement is important, but assessing if an individual can work is much more straight forward with ID cards in place.
No it isn’t. There’s a list of acceptable docs for UK employers and it’s not hard.
An ID card would make it slightly easier but not much.
What you seem to be missing is that in the UK significant numbers don’t care about who they are employing because it’s not likely they will be caught and even if they are the penalties will be minimal. ID cards do nothing to address that.
It’s an enforcement gap and a difference in practises where people in the UK aren’t accustomed to having to provide ID for every interaction.
Delivering universal ID cards would be hugely expensive for no real gain without anyone to enforce it.

@thereisonlyoneofme

I just wonder how we are expected to find accommodation for all these people. I understand that its hard to find homes for the Afghan refugees that came here legally recently. Not to mention the people who already live here that are homeless and not being put up in hotels I dont think.

They are put up in hotels and army barracks that were refurbished for them Also I don't think you can apply for asylum until you are actually in the country you want to stay in, hence risk coming over on boats

It’s funny (actually it’s not) to read some comments above…there is certainly a lack of any sort of insight into of French politics on display, both with regard to “Frexit” and other issues

The idea that the French are doing nothing is nonsense.

What goes on in our local prefecture with regard to migrant handling is pretty robust and I think some of what is done to for example verify migrants ages would raise some eyebrows in the UK…for example those claiming asylum/assistance on the basis of youth are sent straight off to the local hospital to have their wrists x-rayed…underage they get shipped back to Spain or further south PDQ…that’s why people are doing things walking the railways in France to avoid checks..

Still if people want to swallow the line that this is all the fault of the French then so be it.

the navy should police the channel and turn the boats back
If only it was so simple.
International law rightly requires anyone to render assistance at sea. If we turned the migrants around they would simply scuttle their vessels on an expectation of being rescued as our obligations (both legal and moral) dictate. We really have to work with the French to minimise these opportunities.

A lot of people, including officials in France , have mentioned the importance of language. Many if not most migrants have a second language and that is English. It would of course be far cheaper to help these ppl in their own countries. Especially when you consider the £18 trillion stashed in offshore tax havens. A figure which is probably out of date already. Something has to give with climate change anyway?

@Chloemol

I havent read all your posts as the first shows you don’t understand

The agreement is asylum seekers are looked after by the first country they arrive at, so France, or another European country, not that they are then shoved across the North Sea to us

France however doesn’t want them, therefore doesn’t deal with them as they should, allows them and economic refugees to set up camps in Calais

As there are no borders in the EU no one is stopping them leaving whatever country they arrived at to travel to France and then onto us.

They should automatically be sent back to France, who can send them back to whatever country they arrived at so they can be dealt with there

@Chloemol I absolutely love your level of confidence and hugely admire your nerve, but it’s normally a good idea to have at least some sort of vague idea of what you’re talking about before criticising anyone else’s lack of understanding. Every point you’ve made is wrong and your last suggestion is, quite frankly laughable. I’m really curious though, how do you think this would work? So we have Person A, who has arrived on the Kent coast. What happens next?

@ImJustADaddy If they are crossing from France to UK then they are not seeking asylum because they are perfectly safe in France.
They are not asylum seekers, but rather they are financial migrants Yeah, that’s not how it works either. The UK doesn’t decide whether or not a person is an asylum seeker. The person does. And they do this by claiming asylum, or not. The UK then deals with them accordingly.