AIBU to wonder why France is being blamed for allowing migrants to cross the English channel to uk?

[Rebbecia1234]

Surely, UK has as much responsibility as any other country to accept asylum seekers fleeing from desperate situations? Why should France be tasked with the responsibility of preventing asylum seekers to cross the English channel in boats to the UK?

By the way, France grants about double the number of people a year asylum than the UK does. The UK should take more.

France is vastly bigger than the UK !

@ElftonWednesday

By the way, France grants about double the number of people a year asylum than the UK does. The UK should take more.

France is almost 3 times bigger than the UK in terms of km. So not that impressive.

France = 632,734 km²
Uk = 242,495 km²

I assume that UK is seen as a better destination for asylum speakers who speak English or already have relatives here

Also, UK doesn't have ID cards that need to be shown to get any kind of government or healthcare help here in my country.

The great thing is I can also use it to traverse borders within the EU and including Morocco, Turkey, Switzerland, Norway etc.
It's the size of a credit card.

@MaskingForIt

YANBU. If the migrants were carrying on through Britain to Ireland we’d be pumping their life jackets up and giving them sandwiches, not stopping them.

This is absolute bollocks.

Presumably France hasn't allowed them entry if they haven't approached them for asylum? I assume that the asylum seekers trying to get to the UK are outside any formal systems?

If they were able to enter France as they have elected to have no border between the rest of Europe then they have allowed them entry surely? They are responsible for detaining them and processing them if they are in their country! The fact they are deliberately not doing so and blackmailing us to do what it is their responsibility to do is disgraceful. Even more so that we have given in to the blackmail.

I don’t think the ‘asylum seekers’ are desperate either. From what I’ve read. they don’t want to be processed in other European countries so they actively avoid it. The fact they are putting innocent children in flimsy boats is all on them. France, Italy and Greece are safe enough countries that I certainly wouldn’t put my DC’s lives at further risk after escaping from a war zone just to get to a country that speaks English or because I have a relative there.

Asylum seekers yes. Economic migrants no, there are legitimate ways to apply. And removal of those whose claims have been denied and appeals if relevant denied.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone sorry?

This is the problem with these issues, sooner or later someone gets called a racist or a xenophobe and then any reasoned debate is over. Did it read as though I was being racist or calling anyone xenophobic?

As in my previous post (and no, I don't check usernames so wouldn't expect you to either) I was pointing out the same as you, the UK is, all the shouting nothwithstanding, much more tolerant than many other places.

By the way, France grants about double the number of people a year asylum than the UK does. The UK should take more.

This stupid argument is constantly trotted out.

We have almost the same population as France but less than half the land mass.

@Iflyaway

I assume that UK is seen as a better destination for asylum speakers who speak English or already have relatives here

Also, UK doesn't have ID cards that need to be shown to get any kind of government or healthcare help here in my country.

The great thing is I can also use it to traverse borders within the EU and including Morocco, Turkey, Switzerland, Norway etc.
It's the size of a credit card.

I can see the advantages of that - but introducing such a system here would be massively expensive and complex now we've done without one for so long.

In many cases migrant boats will refuse help in French waters so that they are picked up in UK waters- and then have to be landed in the UK. In some cases migrants threaten to jump into the water, or throw children to prevent being boarded before they are in UK waters. In international law there is no requirement for an asylum seeker to seek asylum in the first country they come to. Many do speak English, have UK based relatives and therefore head to the UK. Also, as the UK does not have an ID card system it is far easier to get work in the black economy than it is in France. Once here, the UK has an extremely poor record of removal, so most of the people currently landing in Kent will still be with us in ten years time irrespective of having a well founded fear of persecution. There is no easy solution. The UK has no real appetite to turn boats back (some will sink if this is done), and it has no appetite to set up a remote processing area (for example an internment camp on a remote island) whilst claims are considered. The UK could agree unilaterally to return migrants landing to France, but this is unlikely.

[quote HoardingSamphireSaurus]@daimbarsatemydogsbone sorry?

This is the problem with these issues, sooner or later someone gets called a racist or a xenophobe and then any reasoned debate is over. Did it read as though I was being racist or calling anyone xenophobic?

As in my previous post (and no, I don't check usernames so wouldn't expect you to either) I was pointing out the same as you, the UK is, all the shouting nothwithstanding, much more tolerant than many other places.[/quote]
Fair enough - it was the reference to lies and fearmongering I was talking about. It's hard to distinguish lies and fearmongering from reality when we don't have reliable information. I apologise.

@thereisonlyoneofme

I just wonder how we are expected to find accommodation for all these people. I understand that its hard to find homes for the Afghan refugees that came here legally recently. Not to mention the people who already live here that are homeless and not being put up in hotels I dont think.

i wonder that too

Also, as the UK does not have an ID card system it is far easier to get work in the black economy than it is in France.
That's actually not due to ID cards - it's due to enforcement and much more stringent penalties in France and many other European countries.

FWIW France has well over 300,000 registered refugees….we’re in southern France and there are several centers near us, and has a dedicated department in the local Prefecture that handles applications from those who literally walk in through their doors.

Problem for the UK appears to be there’s a large number who clandestinely push north through France to the Channel because they really don’t want to get “caught” in the French system - they really want to get to the UK…

One POV on what goes on up north ..

www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/10/10/immigration-au-royaume-uni-plus-d-un-millier-de-migrants-tentant-de-traverser-la-manche-secourus-en-deux-jours_6097825_3210.html

Despite the impression given in some parts of the MSM the French authorities do intercept migrants either on the beach and off shore but numbers have been such that some will make to or close to the UK side…. Without putting the whole of the Gendarmerie National on the beaches 24/7/365 I’m not sure what the answer is.

The standard comment here is a wish that somehow the UK could reduce the “pull”, that might make it easier for authorities on both side of the Channel. It’s certainly has always appeared to us that it’s harder to stay below the radar in France than it is in the UK…(e.g. access to work is much more difficult without national qualifications, access to healthcare is more regulated at the point of delivery)…

Samcro

thereisonlyoneofme
I just wonder how we are expected to find accommodation for all these people. I understand that its hard to find homes for the Afghan refugees that came here legally recently. Not to mention the people who already live here that are homeless and not being put up in hotels I dont think

I wonder that too

Well if the liberal elite all gave up their 2nd homes, there might be enough.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone Oh! Don't apologise. I'll take it on board and be more careful how I phrase things.

@aarrgghhhhh yep
the BBC have been doing a thing about people living in terrible conditions in rental and SH. terrible conditions.
surely that also has to be fixed.

@notimagain

FWIW France has well over 300,000 registered refugees….we’re in southern France and there are several centers near us, and has a dedicated department in the local Prefecture that handles applications from those who literally walk in through their doors.

Problem for the UK appears to be there’s a large number who clandestinely push north through France to the Channel because they really don’t want to get “caught” in the French system - they really want to get to the UK…

One POV on what goes on up north ..

www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/10/10/immigration-au-royaume-uni-plus-d-un-millier-de-migrants-tentant-de-traverser-la-manche-secourus-en-deux-jours_6097825_3210.html

Despite the impression given in some parts of the MSM the French authorities do intercept migrants either on the beach and off shore but numbers have been such that some will make to or close to the UK side…. Without putting the whole of the Gendarmerie National on the beaches 24/7/365 I’m not sure what the answer is.

The standard comment here is a wish that somehow the UK could reduce the “pull”, that might make it easier for authorities on both side of the Channel. It’s certainly has always appeared to us that it’s harder to stay below the radar in France than it is in the UK…(e.g. access to work is much more difficult without national qualifications, access to healthcare is more regulated at the point of delivery)…

Great insights.

Most of the actions suggested to reduce the pull would be expensive or disruptive, or both though. We are so used to things being as they are and there doesn't seem to be any appetite for major (and expensive) changes.

The French laws on "working on the black" (or more correctly on employing people) are much tougher than ours - but the major difference is in having anyone prepared and resourced to enforce them.

But they’re not actually asylum seekers any more are they? They’re fleeing from France, not a war torn country where they’ll be starved and murdered? I have no issues at all with true asylum seekers, but these people are being sent from France, a country that receives a lot of money to help them properly, not let them board boats and risk their lives further by travelling here?

sorry thats a ridiculous thing to say.Are you suggesting they just hand over their properties

@Wackaday

It's also a very dangerous route with a high death risk,

It is, and it catches a few on the mainland before they get anywhere near the channel…this lot (happened near us) were possibly either trying to get to Paris to disappear or perhaps further north.

france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/nouvelle-aquitaine/pyrenees-atlantiques/accident-de-train-a-saint-jean-de-luz-les-migrants-etaient-endormis-sur-la-voie-ferree-2294356.html

It’s believed a lot of migrants are taking to walking the railways rather than by road because they fear police checks (which do happen).

@AssemblySquare

The asylum rules and the Geneva Convention are absolutely clear on that a person seeking asylum is expected to do so in the first safe country. Geography means that a little island off the north coast of Europe is not the first safe Geneva convention country from pretty much anywhere!

However, I do think anyone who is willing to travel across the Channel in a tiny little boat must be absolutely desperate! For that reason alone I think many are being trafficked/exploited.

This is incorrect. International rules allow refugees to claim asylum in ANY safe country. 'First safe country' is an EU rule which no longer applies to the UK.

It's not in the French's interest you stop them. Why would they want to? They don't.

@SantaClausIsMyHero

But they’re not actually asylum seekers any more are they? They’re fleeing from France, not a war torn country where they’ll be starved and murdered? I have no issues at all with true asylum seekers, but these people are being sent from France, a country that receives a lot of money to help them properly, not let them board boats and risk their lives further by travelling here?

The problem some migrants have is the French asylum process, or even just gaining the right to permanent residency for any reason, is pretty robust…..it’s a fine tooth comb affair - fail the process and you are deported/denied residency….even a few Brits have fallen foul of that recently.

Rightly or wrongly, for whatever reason, many migrants seem to think the best thing to do is to try and get through France undetected, get onto a boat and then hopefully take their chances with the UK system