Fed up with unvaccinated colleague isolating

[Peevedcolleague]

Name changed 'cos I'll probably get slated but aibu to be pissed off about a colleague self isolating yet again while the rest of us have to carry on and pick up the pieces?

A new colleague chose not to be jabbed and is now facing numerous isolation periods at home on full pay where the rest of us have to carry on and cover her workload. Nature of the job means she's likely to be a close contact fairly regularly.

Even if she changed her mind and gets jabbed tomorrow, it'll be 10 weeks minimum before she's exempt from isolation so this could happen several more times yet.

Aibu to feel resentful and wish she bloody well got jabbed like the rest of us?

"People have the right to "informed consent" though. No one is going to pin them down and force vaccination. That doesn't mean they should have the right to do whatever job they want or to enter any private business they want."

Absolutely this.

Choices have consequences. Antivaxxers can't seem to understand this.

Nobody is going to pin anyone down and stick a needle in them. The fact is, however, that we are ONLY in a state of relative freedom because enough people have accept the tiny, tiny risk the vaccine presents in order to get us there so if restrictions do need to come back in then frankly I think it should be the unvaccinated-by-choice mob who should accept most responsibility for that.

Regardless of all the other arguments, the employer has chosen to pay full pay to their employee and it’s hot nothing to do with OP. I’d workload is unmanageable, talk to them about that.

I still do t understand why she is self isolating

How does that differ if she has been vaccinated

Yabu.
Vaccinated people are still carrying the virus, they just aren't isolating. Therefore your unvaccinated colleague is actually doing more to keep people safe from covid.
(I say this as a fully vaccinated person?

The real issue is that the OP and her colleagues are expected to cover this person's workload while they're isolating - not for the odd sick day, presumably for several weeks total if it's happening frequently.

She needs to speak to her manager about this.

@peboh

Yabu. Vaccinated people are still carrying the virus, they just aren't isolating. Therefore your unvaccinated colleague is actually doing more to keep people safe from covid. (I say this as a fully vaccinated person?

What absolute rubbish. This isn't true.

@OhWhyNot

I still do t understand why she is self isolating

How does that differ if she has been vaccinated

Isn't that the rules?

@MareofBeasttown
It isn't true that vaccinated people are still carrying covid?

They are far less likely to be carrying tue virus. About 65 to 80% less likely depending on the variant.

Rules of what ?

I’ve never seen rules that if you do not vaccinate you self isolate

YANBU. Would make my blood boil in your shoes.

@Beachcomber

That doesn't mean they should have the right to do whatever job they want or to enter any private business they want.

What, even if they have had covid and are immune to it?

36% of people who've had covid have no detectable antibodies for it. It's highly dependent on the severity of the case.

COVID-19 natural immunity versus vaccination

If you've had COVID-19 before, does your natural immunity work better than a vaccine?

The data is clear: Natural immunity is not better. The COVID-19 vaccines create more effective and longer-lasting immunity than natural immunity from infection.

• More than a third of COVID-19 infections result in zero protective antibodies

- Natural immunity fades faster than vaccine immunity - Natural immunity alone is less than half as effective than natural immunity plus vaccination

[quote peboh]@MareofBeasttown
It isn't true that vaccinated people are still carrying covid? [/quote]
Vaccination cuts transmission rates because vaccinated people clear the virus much faster.

COVID vaccines protect against Delta but don't fully stop disease spread

Higher infection rates among unvaccinated

The secondary attack rate, or the percentage of contacts infected by the index patient, was 25% (95% confidence interval [CI], 18% to 33%) in fully vaccinated participants, compared with 38% (95% CI, 24% to 53%) in the unvaccinated.

Among household contacts of fully vaccinated COVID-19 patients, the secondary attack rate was comparable to that of household contacts of unvaccinated index patients (25% [95% CI, 15% to 35%] for vaccinated vs 23% [95% CI, 15% to 31%] for unvaccinated patients).

Of 31 infections, 12 (39%) in fully vaccinated COVID-19 household contacts arose from epidemiologically connected fully vaccinated index patients; genomic and virologic analysis in three pairs of index cases and contacts found a similar percentage.

While vaccinated participants cleared the coronavirus faster than their unvaccinated counterparts, both had similar peak viral loads, which the researchers said could explain its ease in spreading among household members, regardless of vaccination status. Nor did peak viral load differ by variant type, but it increased some with age (difference in peak log10 viral load per milliliter [mL] between those aged 10 and 50 years, 0.39 [95% credible interval, -0.03 to 0.79]).

Average viral load also declined faster in fully vaccinated participants infected with the Delta variant than among unvaccinated participants infected with pre-Alpha (B117), Alpha, or Delta variants.

just wonder if those that refuse to be vaccinated against covid because they believe the vacine is experimental, dangerous etc., would refuse experimental, dangerous drugs if they had life changing or terminal illness which of course catching covid can be

YANBU

@MissConductUS

I don't think the data is clear and I think it is foolhardy to assert that it is. I don't think we have enough data yet on the longevity of natural or vaccine induced immunity as not enough time has passed yet.

I'm really interested in the subject and I recently read this which suggests that natural immunity is longer lasting than was previously thought.
www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4

Let's hope so but there is certainly lots to learn on the subject.

I also hope that vaccine induced immunity is long lasting. Only time will tell I guess but I think it is a bit early to declare that the data is clear and the matter is settled.

Oh shit. I followed the link in your second post and read the whole article.

That's a bit worrying and depressing.

I thought the news was much better than that on vaccine efficacity
and longevity.

YANBU. Would make my blood boil in your shoes.

That’s your issue though. You could choose to not be vaccinated. If you worked with OP you would get paid whilst self isolating.

I remember working with a woman who used to be annoyed when women ‘got free time off’ cos they were pregnant and having kids. This woman didn’t want kids but was annoyed that others got time off that they didn’t. Tough. Years ago I worked somewhere where people could have a cigarette break if they smoked. Some people got very annoyed that they didn’t get this break. They could have started smoking and got it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I’ve found life is better if we don’t involve ourselves in others business. People do have the right to not be vaccinated. This employer has chosen to pay this staff member. That is none of your business.

The unmanageable workload needs to be brought to your employers attention so that they can address it.

If you don’t like your employers conditions, find another job. Apparently most people are ok with that for NHS staff and carers, why not OP. She can find somewhere that doesn’t pay unvaccinated people to isolate and feel much better.

I don't think we have enough data yet on the longevity of natural or vaccine induced immunity as not enough time has passed yet.

Lauding the virtues of natural immunity completely misses the point that in order to get natural immunity you have to become infected with covid, which puts you at risk of hospitalization and death. That risk is greatly mitigated by vaccination.

I remember working with a woman who used to be annoyed when women ‘got free time off’ cos they were pregnant and having kids. This woman didn’t want kids but was annoyed that others got time off that they didn’t. Tough. Years ago I worked somewhere where people could have a cigarette break if they smoked. Some people got very annoyed that they didn’t get this break. They could have started smoking and got it.

The problem there though is why should the rest of us pick up the slack for other peoples' life choices?

@Beachcomber I agree with you and have said it many times, I am ECV plus can't have it due to my allergies. Have also seen the dangers of vaccines with my own children, one of which I nearly lost at 2 months old due to his vaccine. the other now facing lifelong problems because I didn't trust my gut, I did with his booster though and at least the pediatrician backs my decision and agrees with me. I would not want anyone getting a vaccine just to protect people like me and feeling the responsibility if anything went wrong. Plus either way, if they are vaccinated or not doesn't change the fact still at risk of catching it so still have to be careful anyway. It has to be the individuals decision to choose what they feel is best for them and their family.

The problem there though is why should the rest of us pick up the slack for other peoples' life choices?

But it’s wrong to resent the individual employees for those choices. Take it up with your employer. But as NHS and carers are being told, if you don’t like it, leave.

I agree with you there MissConductUS. At least I agree with you that in order to have acquired natural immunity one has to have had covid and that is not without significant risk. I'm unlikely to miss that particular point as I had covid myself and was pretty ill and found the experience very unpleasant.

And I'm not lauding natural immunity as such.

What I am saying is that I don't think it is either fair or sensible to treat vaccinated people as non risk of being able to contract and transmit covid and unvaccinated recovered persons as high risk as unvaccinated people who have not had covid.

Also I do think it is really important to have open unbiased information and discussion on the long term findings regarding natural and vaccine induced immunity so that good decisions can be made going forward.

I've just been having a look at this study which says the following in it's discussion:

Overall, the accumulating evidence from our study and others22-25 shows that long-term humoral response and vaccine effectiveness in previously infected persons were superior to that in recipients of two doses of vaccine.

www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2114583

I'm not interested in this study in order to diss the vaccine. I think it is clear that the vaccine protects people from severe disease and that is fantastic news.

My interest is that I think it is really important know the facts on natural immunity as well as vaccine induced immunity so that public health policy can be adapted accordingly.

@wildchild554

I'm sorry to hear about your family's struggles with vaccination. I wish you all the best and hope that things improve for you

@Beachcomber it's in the past now we just learned to live with it, but am getting sick of the nastiness because of people's choices, there's no need for it and just causing division.