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AIBU?

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Original poster

Fed up with unvaccinated colleague isolating

799 replies

Peevedcolleague · 12/11/2021 16:40

Name changed 'cos I'll probably get slated but aibu to be pissed off about a colleague self isolating yet again while the rest of us have to carry on and pick up the pieces?

A new colleague chose not to be jabbed and is now facing numerous isolation periods at home on full pay where the rest of us have to carry on and cover her workload. Nature of the job means she's likely to be a close contact fairly regularly.

Even if she changed her mind and gets jabbed tomorrow, it'll be 10 weeks minimum before she's exempt from isolation so this could happen several more times yet.

Aibu to feel resentful and wish she bloody well got jabbed like the rest of us?

OP posts:
Beachcomber · 14/11/2021 12:01

It's a moral point

As is the concept of informed consent based on risk benefit.

The strain on health services is to do with the backlog of treatments that could not happen due to lockdowns and social distancing.

I've been waiting 6 months for a dental appointment where usually I can get one within a week. This is nothing to do with vaccination, it is simply a backlog and cases are being treated according to priority.

If you are going to claim that people not getting essential treatment or the strain on the health service is purely the fault of unvaccinated people you will need to back that up with something pretty solid.

Otherwise if just sounds like coercive scaremongering and propaganda.

TheKeatingFive · 14/11/2021 12:06

As is the concept of informed consent based on risk benefit.

I'm not arguing against informed consent. However, given the degree to which some of this informed consent is not taking into considerations the implications for society, then I think people are perfectly within their rights to be angry and to consider measures to mitigate the unvaccinated's impact on wider society in general.

The strain on health services is to do with the backlog of treatments that could not happen due to lockdowns and social distancing.

If you're trying to argue that unmitigated covid spread wouldn't have a profound affect on the health service, above and beyond all the usual issues and indeed lockdown issues, then you're totally deluded.

TheKeatingFive · 14/11/2021 12:08

If you are going to claim that people not getting essential treatment or the strain on the health service is purely the fault of unvaccinated people you will need to back that up with something pretty solid.

Republic of Ireland figures. 10% eligible population are unvaccinated. They're making up 50% of hospital admissions and nearly two thirds of ICU admissions.

That's a massive impact. And just imagine if there were more of them.

Bloodypunkrockers · 14/11/2021 12:12

@AngryApple

Her choice not to get vaccinated.

Therefore, company’s choice to ditch her if this keeps happening!

YANBU

To be honest, that's the post.

The rest of the stuff is just white noise.

Beachcomber · 14/11/2021 12:14

No I'm not arguing that so no need to call me deluded.

I'm arguing that your rather hysterical post about choosing mass death or lockdown is a rather pointless thought experiment and a moot point.

I'm arguing that it's a waste of everyone's time to engage in whataboutery invoking situations that do not exist.

I'm arguing that this whataboutery is coercive and that it is scaremongering. I'm arguing that it is a strawman.

TheKeatingFive · 14/11/2021 12:16

I'm arguing that your rather hysterical post about choosing mass death or lockdown is a rather pointless thought experiment and a moot point.

It wouldn't be if everyone asserted their right to refuse the vaccine. This debate about informed consent doesn't seem to be engaging with what the alternatives to mass vaccine uptake would look like. As a result, it's a fundamentally selfish position.

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 14/11/2021 12:19

There is a lot more evidence to show that contractiong covid is much more likely to cause long term damage than the vaccine. Not to mention the effects of long covid.
I've got so many patients whose lives have been utterly destroyed by covid and then long covid and have had to give up work for good so I don't really get that argument.
I prefer the option that will do me the least harm which is vaccination. You are not going to get any compensation for contracting covid either.

TheKeatingFive · 14/11/2021 12:21

I mean, if you think you have the right to refuse the vaccine, then it must follow that you think everyone else has the right, correct?

And if everyone's just asserting their rights to informed consent, then the situation ive outlined is exactly what would unfold.

You're relying on others NOT asserting the rights that are so important to you. That's a selfish position.

TheKeatingFive · 14/11/2021 12:23

You are not going to get any compensation for contracting covid either.

Quite

Beachcomber · 14/11/2021 12:32

And if everyone's just asserting their rights to informed consent, then the situation ive outlined is exactly what would unfold.

Exercising one's right to informed consent does not mean refusing.

The current situation is that citizens in the UK and other countries have the right to informed consent. Most people have consented to the vaccine. Many people have had covid and recovered and are currently immune.

So why are you banging on and hand wringing over what would happen if that were not the case??

It is the case.

ilovesooty · 14/11/2021 12:33

If you can use consenting for taking the vaccine, choosing not to be vaccinated is refusing.

TheKeatingFive · 14/11/2021 12:38

So why are you banging on and hand wringing over what would happen if that were not the case??

To illustrate to you that your freedom from lockdown and a not totally underwhelmed health service are dependent on other people not refusing the vaccine. So not exercising the rights that are so dear to your heart.

You think those people didn't have their reservations too? Of course they did. But they looked at the alternatives and made a choice for the good of both themselves and wider society. I can't work out whether you genuinely don't get this or can't bring yourself to acknowledge it.

MareofBeasttown · 14/11/2021 12:41

The semantics on this thread ! Billions have taken the vaccine, billions more are fucking desperate for vaccines, billions will never ever have boosters, but endless mithering on and on about how vaccines aren't 100% safe. Nothing is. Getting Covid certainly isn't.

Beachcomber · 14/11/2021 12:44

Oh for goodness sake.

I'm not arguing that refusing a vaccine is not refusing a vaccine!!

I think we are all clear on what consenting and refusing means. They are simple commonly used word. One means yes and the other means no. It's all perfectly clear.

I'm simply stating that exercising the right to informed consent does not mean saying no. It means being allowed to say yes or no.

Cos another poster said the following:

And if everyone's just asserting their rights to informed consent, then the situation ive outlined is exactly what would unfold.

Which is bullshit. Everyone has exercised their right to informed consent. Some people have said yes. Some people have said no.

We are not however in a situation of choosing between mass deaths or lockdowns.

TheKeatingFive · 14/11/2021 12:46

Which is bullshit

Okay, I'll rephrase. If everyone decided, like you, that they weren't taking an 'experimental' vaccine because the couldn't be assured it was 100% safe, the situation I outlined would be unfolding.

Beachcomber · 14/11/2021 12:53

So not exercising the rights that are so dear to your heart.

But every single one of them has absolutely exercised the right to informed consent.

If people have (as you seem to be arguing) taken up a vaccine that they are not sure is safe and they are not sure will benefit them as individuals in order to protect the health service and the economy surely that is something to be very very concerned about.

Is that what you think the situation is?

The ethics of that are very troubling.

TheKeatingFive · 14/11/2021 12:58

If people have (as you seem to be arguing) taken up a vaccine that they are not sure is safe and they are not sure will benefit them as individuals in order to protect the health service and the economy surely that is something to be very very concerned about.

But you aren't considering the alternative, which is unmitigated covid. Definitely not safe and definitely won't benefit them as individuals as it will totally overwhelm their health service.

Beachcomber · 14/11/2021 12:58

If you read my posts you will see that I say that the reason I'm not vaccinated is because I've had covid and am currently immune.

I have never said that I am not vaccinated because the vaccine is experimental or because it isn't 100% safe.

What I have said is that I believe in the right to informed consent for citizens of democratic countries as the risk cannot be reduced to zero.

Currently the UK government agrees with me as do most governments in Europe and indeed the world.

My position is that of the current status quo. There is nothing extreme or radical about it.

Belladonna12 · 14/11/2021 13:03

@Beachcomber

If you read my posts you will see that I say that the reason I'm not vaccinated is because I've had covid and am currently immune.

I have never said that I am not vaccinated because the vaccine is experimental or because it isn't 100% safe.

What I have said is that I believe in the right to informed consent for citizens of democratic countries as the risk cannot be reduced to zero.

Currently the UK government agrees with me as do most governments in Europe and indeed the world.

My position is that of the current status quo. There is nothing extreme or radical about it.

People have the right to "informed consent" though. No one is going to pin them down and force vaccination. That doesn't mean they should have the right to do whatever job they want or to enter any private business they want.
Beachcomber · 14/11/2021 13:05

There is no need to consider the situation of unmitigated covid because that is a hypothetical situation which does not exist.

And I'm currently immune to covid so I'm not putting anyone at risk of unmitigated covid and I'm not putting any strain on the health service or the economy.

Belladonna12 · 14/11/2021 13:09

OP, just keep complaining to your managers about the extra work. If they are new they will be on probation and they will just get rid of them at the end anyway due the amount of time they have taken off.

Beachcomber · 14/11/2021 13:17

That doesn't mean they should have the right to do whatever job they want or to enter any private business they want.

What, even if they have had covid and are immune to it?

MareofBeasttown · 14/11/2021 13:29

I just hired a cleaner/helper who has been triple vaxxed ( used to work in a care home). With a CV DH, I don't really have the time or the energy to look into the dodgy stats of who has immunity from covid, who got one vax and thinks it's fine, who is pregnant and so on.... Life is too bloody short for vax dodgers and two years of this is enough.

JamieFraserskiltspeaksout · 14/11/2021 13:41

YANBU X100000000000

SusieBob · 14/11/2021 13:59

@Beachcomber

That doesn't mean they should have the right to do whatever job they want or to enter any private business they want.

What, even if they have had covid and are immune to it?

You are not immune to covid just because you have had it. Let's just clear that one up.

You have some degree of protection but less than the vaccine that itself does not give 100% protection.