Fed up with unvaccinated colleague isolating

[Peevedcolleague]

Name changed 'cos I'll probably get slated but aibu to be pissed off about a colleague self isolating yet again while the rest of us have to carry on and pick up the pieces?

A new colleague chose not to be jabbed and is now facing numerous isolation periods at home on full pay where the rest of us have to carry on and cover her workload. Nature of the job means she's likely to be a close contact fairly regularly.

Even if she changed her mind and gets jabbed tomorrow, it'll be 10 weeks minimum before she's exempt from isolation so this could happen several more times yet.

Aibu to feel resentful and wish she bloody well got jabbed like the rest of us?

Uptake for covid vaccines has been really high in many places, compared to what we see with other vaccines. It's had a fairly good result it seems for keeping people out of hospital, but there is still a good amount of transmission. It's not at all clear that another 10% would change that much

People getting covid isn't the problem.

People being hospitalised with severe covid is.

And yes it's clear that another 10% would change that. Figures from ROI show that from a base of 10% unvaxxed they're making up 50% of hospitalisations and slightly shy of two thirds of ICU admissions. It would make an enormous difference if they got the jab.

No, I'm asking what those not taking the vaccine think should have happened if others weren't prepared to take risks so they could piggyback off the benefits.

If not perpetual lockdown, what?

This.

So many people rail against the damage of lockdown but then also say well vaccines are unproven. The NHS is on its knees as it is. If the majority of people hadn't got the vaccines there's no way we would not be in some level of lockdown with delta around.

@Beachcomber

Your dd cannot have vaccines because she is allergic to them clearly. That's different from choosing not to have them.

You can have vaccines. You've presumably had some because you stated you are a British citizen, so have likely had mmr, tb etc growing up as a child. You've not had a bad reaction to vaccines, you could have this one and actually protect your daughter, who has a weakened immune system. You are choosing not to. I find that odd that you choose not to protect your dd despite her having a weak immune system.

Also you stated you've already had covid so you're safer than someone vaccinated who hasn't had it. That's not true, there are multiple versions of covid. You've had one. You can get more. You are still unsafe.

I get your worry about your dd. But she is in a very small minority of people. Really you should be wanting more people to get vaccinated. The more that do, the safer your dd is. The more that don't, the higher the chances she catches something that kills her.

Her choice not to get vaccinated.

Therefore, company’s choice to ditch her if this keeps happening!

YANBU

@CBroads

What's with the North Korea comparison? Do you have any idea at all how absurd that is? No, the UK is not like North Korea. For starters any critic would have been hunted down and shot for speaking out.

Honestly, these comparisons with Nazi Germany and aparthied are offensive. Being offered a vaccine to help survive a disease is in no way comparable with being rounded up and sent to gas chambers.

It really doesn't help your argument, in fact it just confirms what a lot of people suspect which is that anti-vaxxers are woefully ignorant..

• apartheid

@FreedomFaith

My DD has had covid too. I caught it from her as did my DH. None of us were vaccinated because the vaccine was not available to our age group at the time in France where we live.

My DD was mildly ill thankfully.

Despite people calling me an antivaxxer on this thread, I was considering having the vaccine in order to shield my DD but we all got covid before being able to be vaccinated.

The main reason I choose not to get vaccinated currently is because I've had covid. It isn't anything to do with watching conspiracy theory videos on YouTube as some posters on here have rather nastily said.

Our GP and allergist are perfectly happy with none of us being vaccinated. They both say that as we had delta the chances of us catching covid again are currently very slim and considering how mild my DD's symptoms were they are not concerned for her.

So thank you for your concern but I'm going to stick with the medical advice of HCPs who know us and our situation.

I would like to add something to those posters who think people like me are enjoying the benefits of others being vaccinated. The reality is not so simplistic. All of society is reaping the benefits of both vaccination but also natural immunity from recovered cases i.e people like me. Unvaccinated does not mean not immune in my and many cases.

I hope we know more soon about the longevity of both types of immunity, natural and vaccine induced as it would help people to make informed choices.

My PIL had covid in the first wave in March 2020 and they regularly have their immunity tested and they continue to show high levels which is good.

As I said before, in France you are considered to be fully vaccinated if you have had covid and then have 1 vaccine. I don't know why the advice is different in the UK with people getting 2 and maybe even 3 if they get a booster. There is still so much we don't know and I pray that the discussion can remain open and collective rather than being polarised, politicised and conflictual.

[quote 50ShadesOfCatholic]@CBroads

What's with the North Korea comparison? Do you have any idea at all how absurd that is? No, the UK is not like North Korea. For starters any critic would have been hunted down and shot for speaking out.

Honestly, these comparisons with Nazi Germany and aparthied are offensive. Being offered a vaccine to help survive a disease is in no way comparable with being rounded up and sent to gas chambers.

It really doesn't help your argument, in fact it just confirms what a lot of people suspect which is that anti-vaxxers are woefully ignorant..[/quote]
Anit-vaxxer?? I've had all of my vaccines bar this one. All the other vaccines I've had have been created through years of research into medical science. I may get the vaccine in a few years when we know the long term effects if any, but right now I'm not willing to take something that even the creators don't know the long term effects of.

Forgot to say, I have no wish for anyone to get vaccinated in order to protect my DD.

I think you will find that this is a very common view amongst people with vaccine injured children. We know what the consequences of vaccine side effects can be. We've lived with them and wouldn't wish them on anyone. So we generally feel very strongly about informed consent and on the right of the individual to choice.

I would consider a vaccine myself if I felt it was important for my DD's safety but I'm her mum and it is my duty and responsibility to keep her safe.

I would be more worried that a vaccinated colleague still be allowed into work even if they have a confirmed Covid case at home.

This

The rules are the issue. Being vaccinated does not protect you from getting or spreading COVID. The pressure to get the vaccine is not ok! I am vaccinated and it was MY choice.

YABU- she should be able to choose whether she wants to have the vaccine or not and not be treated any differently for her decision. I'm not an anti Vaxer either but we should be able to have a choice.

People should not be forced to take a vaccine they don’t want, but they should understand the impact of that decision on society. You can’t complain that ambulances are queuing outside A&E for 8 hours and not understand the link to Covid patients taking up all the beds.

Quite.

The problem being that everyone suffers as a result of this. So it's not a question of 'my choice, none of your business' the knock on effects of this choice are felt by everyone.

It's nearly two years into this hell and I am absolutely done with those who refuse the vaccine, whatever fancy name they may want to call themselves. I have a 1 month wait for a GP in my area, a likely 5 month wait for surgery that I need. Going to fly back to my home country and get it done privately. I am lucky to have that choice. 'My body my choice' affects everybody, not just you.

But what happens if we take away that choice?

We've already agreed on this thread that 100% safety in vaccines is not realistic. Which is unfortunate but it is a fact that must be taken into account.

Thankfully serious vaccine side effects seem to be rare but they do happen. Unfortunately until one has a vaccine there is no way of knowing how one will react. The chances are things will be OK but there are no guarantees.

And I can tell you that when things go wrong you are on your own. Vaccine damage is hard to prove and the damage has to be extreme in order to receive any compensation.

So people like my DD get nothing. I had to take years off work to care for her. We spent a fortune on a special diet for her. We spent hours in hospitals and doctor's surgeries. We travelled around the country to see specialists. And none of them could help us. Nobody helped us apart from our families who held us in their arms whilst we wept for our damaged and distressed child.

You are an individual when vaccines go wrong for you. You bear the consequences alone. Society does not give a fuck about you. Indeed it would rather you were invisible as you are collateral damage justified in the name of the greater good and an inconvenience as your existence is bad optics for the vaccine program.

Unless the risk is zero and the benefit to the individual is extremely high, the ethical position is one of informed consent.

@MareofBeasttown

It's nearly two years into this hell and I am absolutely done with those who refuse the vaccine, whatever fancy name they may want to call themselves. I have a 1 month wait for a GP in my area, a likely 5 month wait for surgery that I need. Going to fly back to my home country and get it done privately. I am lucky to have that choice. 'My body my choice' affects everybody, not just you.

Agreed

@OrangeVelour

YABU. I'd be more worried about vaccinated people NOT isolating and spreading the virus at work.

100%

And I can tell you that when things go wrong you are on your own. Vaccine damage is hard to prove and the damage has to be extreme in order to receive any compensation.

Yes there are risks.

But what are the alternatives to that risk?

If everyone refuses to take the 'experimental' vaccine and we have severe covid at levels that would overwhelm the health service in weeks, then what?

Long term lockdown or mass death - which would you go for?

But that's a total moot point as the majority of people want to have the vaccine. They have exercised their right to informed consent and they have been vaccinated.

And a good vaccine will protect them.

A huge number of people have also had covid and recovered and their natural immunity is protecting them.

So currently we do not have to choose between lockdown or mass death. Thankfully.

In addition we are getting much better at treating covid.

But that's a total moot point as the majority of people want to have the vaccine. They have exercised their right to informed consent and they have been vaccinated.

It's a moral point. It's always a great check to decide if your actions are selfish. What if everyone did what I'm doing, what would the societal consequences be?

And a good vaccine will protect them.

It won't protect their health service. That their taxes pay for. That they every right to see functioning. That's the fundamental point here and I'm going to keep saying it til it sinks in.

So currently we do not have to choose between lockdown or mass death. Thankfully.

Because of the people who did the right thing by society and got the jab. Not those who actively worked against solving the problem.

Some people are unable to take on the impact non vaccination can have as a whole

And with the low take up of the second booster we shall have more and more people with little to no protection from the vaccine

And with the low take up of the second booster we shall have more and more people with little to no protection from the vaccine.

That’s decreasing protection against infection. Protection against severe disease and death seems to wane but not at the same rate - there is still a reasonable level of protection (but boosters bring it up to much much safer levels.)

@Beachcomber

But what happens if we take away that choice?

We've already agreed on this thread that 100% safety in vaccines is not realistic. Which is unfortunate but it is a fact that must be taken into account.

Thankfully serious vaccine side effects seem to be rare but they do happen. Unfortunately until one has a vaccine there is no way of knowing how one will react. The chances are things will be OK but there are no guarantees.

And I can tell you that when things go wrong you are on your own. Vaccine damage is hard to prove and the damage has to be extreme in order to receive any compensation.

So people like my DD get nothing. I had to take years off work to care for her. We spent a fortune on a special diet for her. We spent hours in hospitals and doctor's surgeries. We travelled around the country to see specialists. And none of them could help us. Nobody helped us apart from our families who held us in their arms whilst we wept for our damaged and distressed child.

You are an individual when vaccines go wrong for you. You bear the consequences alone. Society does not give a fuck about you. Indeed it would rather you were invisible as you are collateral damage justified in the name of the greater good and an inconvenience as your existence is bad optics for the vaccine program.

Unless the risk is zero and the benefit to the individual is extremely high, the ethical position is one of informed consent.

This.

@GoodnightGrandma

Join the club, we had this with a colleague who refused the vaccine due to pregnancy.

I am currently pregnant and have refused the vaccine. I don't see that I should potentially endanger my unborn child as they don't know for sure if what effect the vaccine might have. I saw in the news yesterday that a huge amount of fit healthy athletes have been suffering cardiac arrests after taking the vaccine and you think it's a good idea to get vaccinated whilst pregnant? We live in a country where it's ok to change the sex you was born with but you think it's unreasonable for a pregnant women to not be vaccinated?

@Beachcomber

But what happens if we take away that choice?

We've already agreed on this thread that 100% safety in vaccines is not realistic. Which is unfortunate but it is a fact that must be taken into account.

Thankfully serious vaccine side effects seem to be rare but they do happen. Unfortunately until one has a vaccine there is no way of knowing how one will react. The chances are things will be OK but there are no guarantees.

And I can tell you that when things go wrong you are on your own. Vaccine damage is hard to prove and the damage has to be extreme in order to receive any compensation.

So people like my DD get nothing. I had to take years off work to care for her. We spent a fortune on a special diet for her. We spent hours in hospitals and doctor's surgeries. We travelled around the country to see specialists. And none of them could help us. Nobody helped us apart from our families who held us in their arms whilst we wept for our damaged and distressed child.

You are an individual when vaccines go wrong for you. You bear the consequences alone. Society does not give a fuck about you. Indeed it would rather you were invisible as you are collateral damage justified in the name of the greater good and an inconvenience as your existence is bad optics for the vaccine program.

Unless the risk is zero and the benefit to the individual is extremely high, the ethical position is one of informed consent.

OMG spot on. 1000%