Fed up with unvaccinated colleague isolating

[Peevedcolleague]

Name changed 'cos I'll probably get slated but aibu to be pissed off about a colleague self isolating yet again while the rest of us have to carry on and pick up the pieces?

A new colleague chose not to be jabbed and is now facing numerous isolation periods at home on full pay where the rest of us have to carry on and cover her workload. Nature of the job means she's likely to be a close contact fairly regularly.

Even if she changed her mind and gets jabbed tomorrow, it'll be 10 weeks minimum before she's exempt from isolation so this could happen several more times yet.

Aibu to feel resentful and wish she bloody well got jabbed like the rest of us?

All the ones who say her body her choice, are you happy to accept a double workload then for someone who isn't vaccinated or for whatever reason?

@FreedomFaith this is exactly the situation I and my colleagues are in right now. It's untenable long term and frankly, a fucking nightmare. But I can never imagine a time when I feel that anyone should be forced to have a vaccination. The whole situation is incredibly difficult.

YANBU

God here come the “my body, my choice” brigade. Your body, everyone else’s bloody problem

@Maybebaby8

This makes me laugh. It's their body their choice. You can still catch and spread it when vaccinated. The only person she is putting at risk is herself that she could catch it and become potentially more unwell. Blame the government for their ridiculous rules that make no sense!

Glad you find it funny

I don't think risk is the issue. It's the freeloading time off to isolate that is pissing people off

@TurquoiseDress

YANBU

God here come the “my body, my choice” brigade. Your body, everyone else’s bloody problem

100% this. The 'her body her choice' brigade, are off-the-charts obtuse. FFS, it IS her body, but yes, everybody else's problem, as she is now getting tons of time off work and people are having to cover her arse.

As I said before, make her take annual leave, or just don't pay her.

Bet she would not be having so much time off if she wasn't getting paid. I know several people who have been really ill lately; one person was even hospitalised for 2 days with something, (not contagious,) and they still went back to work 2 days after the came out of hospital, because they couldn't afford to lose the money.

I have seen people go into work when they're dying on their feet, because they won't get paid if they don't go in.

AMAZINGLY the people who get paid in FULL for sick time, seem to get 'ill' and have a lot more time off than those who don't get paid.

Why? There's plenty of evidence around showing that vaccinated and unvaccinated can catch and transmit Covid in exactly the same way and that the viral loads are not dissimilar in either case-so what' selfish or ignorant when it seems there's no difference between either 'person's' ability to catch and or transmit the virus to others?
Have you noticed that LOADS of vaccinated people are getting Covid- they'll be passing it on to others too-perhaps without realising as they'll think their 'symptoms' can't be Covid as they've had the jab!

It's not the same.

Being fully vaccinated cuts down on hospitalizations of vaccinated people for covid by roughly 90%, which means the virus isn't as dangerous for those people. Which is also why everyone who can be should be vaccinated.

You can still catch and spread it when vaccinated.

The only person she is putting at risk is herself that she could catch it and become potentially more unwell.

This is also untrue. There are those small minority of vaccinated people who catch it and become seriously ill - often those who have compromised immune systems so weren’t able to mount a strong immune response to the vaccine. There are those who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons.

There's plenty of evidence around showing that vaccinated and unvaccinated can catch and transmit Covid in exactly the same way and that the viral loads are not dissimilar in either case-so what' selfish or ignorant when it seems there's no difference between either 'person's' ability to catch and or transmit the virus to others?

There are quite a few misconceptions in here.

First, people don’t ‘catch’ Covid in exactly the same way after vaccination - the vaccine prevents the majority of infections, including still against delta (though effectiveness is reduced compared to against alpha.) So that means half the number of people getting infected - so they can’t pass it on.

Second, viral load isn’t the be all and end all of secondary transmission. There are some interesting new studies out of the Netherlands and the US that indicate lower secondary transmission from the infected vaccinated - up to 63% lower in the Dutch study. There is however other evidence incl from the U.K. that household secondary transmission (which has always been the highest risk setting) may be at the same level for vaccinated and unvaccinated since Delta.

All the evidence points to a significant difference in the ability to catch and/or transmit between vaccinated and unvaccinated people.

Wow at the vitriol on this thread. I've been interested in vaccination since my DD had a serious reaction to a DTP as a baby. It changed her life and ours. Her immune system was shot and she developed allergies to most foods and many chemicals. It was a nightmare.
Thankfully she is in a much better place now but she is still living with the consequences of vaccination and will for the rest of her life.

I don't want her to have a covid vaccine as no-one has any idea how she will react to it. I also don't want anyone in our family to have a covid vaccine because I have witnessed vaccine injury first hand and it is terrible.

And therein lies the problem for me. Most people are OK with vaccinations but some people are not. This is fact. What is also a fact is that no-one knows which group they belong to. So we roll up our sleeves and hope that we are in the majority. But if you do turn out to be in the minority the consequences can be devastating and life changing if not life ending.

This unfortunate truth is the reason why in democratic ethical societies getting vaccinated is a choice.
People should be careful what they wish for - those here waving pitchforks for people to be basically forced to be vaccinated are clamouring for an erosion of our right to informed consent.

Covid vaccines may turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread and I hope that they do.

But the fact is that they are still experimental vaccines with both Moderna and Pfizer using mRNA techniques with their vaccines being the first mRNA ones brought to market (yes I know other mRNA vaccines have been tested on humans but none are currently licensed for general use other than the covid ones).

Add to that that Pfizer is currently under scrutiny following a whistleblower documenting that one of their subcontractors has failed to comply with regulations and protocols.

And then add to that that Moderna has no other products on the market (the company does research and development in experimental medicine but has yet to have any of their products licensed and brought to market) and is a very new company in the pharmaceutical industry.

In addition I don't live in the UK and the rules around vaccination are different to the UK. Where I live if you have had covid you are considered to be fully vaccinated if you have 1 jab. And indeed our doctor advises against 2 jabs. In the UK you must have 2 jabs regardless of having had covid. Who is right? Where is the science?

I will not be having a covid vaccine unless I am made to. And I pray that I never live to see the day when democratic nations force their citizens to be injected with experimental (or any) vaccines against their will.

Plus let's face it, we are finding out that the vaccines are not anything like as effective at preventing infection and transmission as was first claimed. They do seem to reduce severity in the individual at least.

I've had covid but if I hadn't I would much rather sit in an office with someone who has had covid or who regularly tests for it than next to someone vaccinated who no longer tests and is under a false sense of security that they will not be a vector of transmission due to their vaccinated status.

So I think YABVU op. The problem here is not your colleagues right to informed consent it is the politicisation of what should be a purely scientific and ethical issue.

@QuinceTamarillo

YABU. This could easily be mitigated by having everyone who works in your workplace take a daily test - which they should anyway if there is considerable contact with random members of the public.

Why should everyone suffer because some selfish prick won't get vaccinated?

But the fact is that they are still experimental vaccines

This is not a fact. None of the licensed vaccines are considered experimental.

OK if you prefer they are liscened for emergency use but do not have full regulatory board approval. Pfizer and Moderna are also the first vaccines of their kind (mRNA) to be used in humans other than in tests.

That makes them experimental.

YABU, I am not anti-vaccination but it'll be a grim day if it ever becomes mandatory to have it. It's up to each person what to have done to their body it is already mandatory for anyone working in a care home whether resident facing or not. Many people clearly believe we don't have the human rights everyone else does. I had to force myself to work after being blue lighted to hospital following the vaccine because we only get ssp.

if it’s childcare then ratios will still need to be adhered to. If management need to get agency staff in then it will be hitting their bottom line. How can you be covering for her without breaking the law? Or are you working extra days etc? It it’s that, just do your rostered shifts and no more 😂😂😂 from what my friends say the childcare sector isn't much different from the care sector staffing and pay wise. The sector was already so short there were 2 of us for 40 residents for a 12hr day shift last week. Safeguarding and CQC well aware. They don't care as there's nothing they can do. They have ignored our notifications except the standard automated reply.

This is from the FDA in the US but it's the same concept for the rest of the world.

What is an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)?
An Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) is a mechanism to facilitate the availability and use of medical countermeasures, including vaccines, during public health emergencies, such as the current COVID-19 pandemic. Under an EUA, FDA may allow the use of unapproved medical products, or unapproved uses of approved medical products in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions when certain statutory criteria have been met, including that there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives.

www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/vaccines/emergency-use-authorization-vaccines-explained

I think we all have a duty to reduce the spread of the virus. The easiest way to do this is by having a vaccine. To not have a vaccine, unless there is some good medical reason why you shouldn't, is irrresponsible, especially if you are in close contact with vulnerable people.

I meant to add: YANBU

OK if you prefer they are liscened for emergency use but do not have full regulatory board approval.

You’re using US terminology so you’re no doubt aware that Pfizer does now have full approval from the FDA. Moderna is probably less than a month away.

But yes, temporary/emergency authorisation is more accurate than ‘experimental’ which is not true.

‘Pfizer and Moderna are also the first vaccines of their kind (mRNA) to be used in humans other than in tests.’

‘That makes them experimental.’

No, they have passed their experimental phase; they are now authorised for use and no longer considered experimental. Calling them experimental is misinformation.

But who wants to have to stay in for ten days at a time. I would go insane. No thanks, would rather be working and free to go about my daily life

@ItsmyaddressIsntit

It’s her body and her choice

Nothing to do with you

You wouldn’t moan if a colleague got pregnant and needed multiple days off due to sickness or complications then had maternity leave would you ?

Or if another colleague sustained a sporting injury from a hobby and needed to be off for physio or surgery etc

Very true

@Beachcomber

Wow at the vitriol on this thread. I've been interested in vaccination since my DD had a serious reaction to a DTP as a baby. It changed her life and ours. Her immune system was shot and she developed allergies to most foods and many chemicals. It was a nightmare. Thankfully she is in a much better place now but she is still living with the consequences of vaccination and will for the rest of her life.

I don't want her to have a covid vaccine as no-one has any idea how she will react to it. I also don't want anyone in our family to have a covid vaccine because I have witnessed vaccine injury first hand and it is terrible.

And therein lies the problem for me. Most people are OK with vaccinations but some people are not. This is fact. What is also a fact is that no-one knows which group they belong to. So we roll up our sleeves and hope that we are in the majority. But if you do turn out to be in the minority the consequences can be devastating and life changing if not life ending.

This unfortunate truth is the reason why in democratic ethical societies getting vaccinated is a choice.
People should be careful what they wish for - those here waving pitchforks for people to be basically forced to be vaccinated are clamouring for an erosion of our right to informed consent.

Covid vaccines may turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread and I hope that they do.

But the fact is that they are still experimental vaccines with both Moderna and Pfizer using mRNA techniques with their vaccines being the first mRNA ones brought to market (yes I know other mRNA vaccines have been tested on humans but none are currently licensed for general use other than the covid ones).

Add to that that Pfizer is currently under scrutiny following a whistleblower documenting that one of their subcontractors has failed to comply with regulations and protocols.

And then add to that that Moderna has no other products on the market (the company does research and development in experimental medicine but has yet to have any of their products licensed and brought to market) and is a very new company in the pharmaceutical industry.

In addition I don't live in the UK and the rules around vaccination are different to the UK. Where I live if you have had covid you are considered to be fully vaccinated if you have 1 jab. And indeed our doctor advises against 2 jabs. In the UK you must have 2 jabs regardless of having had covid. Who is right? Where is the science?

I will not be having a covid vaccine unless I am made to. And I pray that I never live to see the day when democratic nations force their citizens to be injected with experimental (or any) vaccines against their will.

Plus let's face it, we are finding out that the vaccines are not anything like as effective at preventing infection and transmission as was first claimed. They do seem to reduce severity in the individual at least.

I've had covid but if I hadn't I would much rather sit in an office with someone who has had covid or who regularly tests for it than next to someone vaccinated who no longer tests and is under a false sense of security that they will not be a vector of transmission due to their vaccinated status.

So I think YABVU op. The problem here is not your colleagues right to informed consent it is the politicisation of what should be a purely scientific and ethical issue.

❤️ the vitriol on this thread has really scared me. I keep coming to write something, but you've covered everything I think. It doesn't matter if the vaccine is the best thing ever, it's dangerous to set precedents around mandatory medical interventions and we need to safeguard for the future. Luckily, I've never encountered anyone in real life with views this extreme.

I also think being vaccinated has lulled some people into a false sense of security. Loads of people forget that, whilst it is reduced, there is still a chance you can get the virus and pass it on.

I think if people are arguing you must vaccinate yourself to be a responsible citizen, then there is also an argument for taking other precautions too such as still wearing masks.

I also don't trust out government to tell us "facts". Not long ago my friends husband (double jabbed plus booster, no underlying medical conditions) died of Covid. It took ages to get the death certificate which said heart failure and Covid. He had no heart failure or any heart problems. My friend is obviously grieving and she just doesn't have the energy to fight it.

Whilst I do believe the virus is a good thing overall, I still want to live in a country and respect the choices of those who do and don't get it.

But, is she not struggling to pay rent / food etc? Or is she paying out of savings etc?

I assume she does pay out of savings. She works in retail, so is only just above NMW, before anybody says it's ok for the well off!

Yes. YABU. She’s allowed to not be vaccinated.

If you can’t cope with workload then your employer needs to address that.

@Beachcomber

Wow at the vitriol on this thread. I've been interested in vaccination since my DD had a serious reaction to a DTP as a baby. It changed her life and ours. Her immune system was shot and she developed allergies to most foods and many chemicals. It was a nightmare. Thankfully she is in a much better place now but she is still living with the consequences of vaccination and will for the rest of her life.

I don't want her to have a covid vaccine as no-one has any idea how she will react to it. I also don't want anyone in our family to have a covid vaccine because I have witnessed vaccine injury first hand and it is terrible.

And therein lies the problem for me. Most people are OK with vaccinations but some people are not. This is fact. What is also a fact is that no-one knows which group they belong to. So we roll up our sleeves and hope that we are in the majority. But if you do turn out to be in the minority the consequences can be devastating and life changing if not life ending.

This unfortunate truth is the reason why in democratic ethical societies getting vaccinated is a choice.
People should be careful what they wish for - those here waving pitchforks for people to be basically forced to be vaccinated are clamouring for an erosion of our right to informed consent.

Covid vaccines may turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread and I hope that they do.

But the fact is that they are still experimental vaccines with both Moderna and Pfizer using mRNA techniques with their vaccines being the first mRNA ones brought to market (yes I know other mRNA vaccines have been tested on humans but none are currently licensed for general use other than the covid ones).

Add to that that Pfizer is currently under scrutiny following a whistleblower documenting that one of their subcontractors has failed to comply with regulations and protocols.

And then add to that that Moderna has no other products on the market (the company does research and development in experimental medicine but has yet to have any of their products licensed and brought to market) and is a very new company in the pharmaceutical industry.

In addition I don't live in the UK and the rules around vaccination are different to the UK. Where I live if you have had covid you are considered to be fully vaccinated if you have 1 jab. And indeed our doctor advises against 2 jabs. In the UK you must have 2 jabs regardless of having had covid. Who is right? Where is the science?

I will not be having a covid vaccine unless I am made to. And I pray that I never live to see the day when democratic nations force their citizens to be injected with experimental (or any) vaccines against their will.

Plus let's face it, we are finding out that the vaccines are not anything like as effective at preventing infection and transmission as was first claimed. They do seem to reduce severity in the individual at least.

I've had covid but if I hadn't I would much rather sit in an office with someone who has had covid or who regularly tests for it than next to someone vaccinated who no longer tests and is under a false sense of security that they will not be a vector of transmission due to their vaccinated status.

So I think YABVU op. The problem here is not your colleagues right to informed consent it is the politicisation of what should be a purely scientific and ethical issue.

This!!! Omg, 100% this. Finally a voice of reason @beachcomber xxx

Voice of reason my arse. Just another antivaxer spreading misinformation.

@SusieBob

Voice of reason my arse. Just another antivaxer spreading misinformation.

Agreed.