Fed up with unvaccinated colleague isolating

[Peevedcolleague]

Name changed 'cos I'll probably get slated but aibu to be pissed off about a colleague self isolating yet again while the rest of us have to carry on and pick up the pieces?

A new colleague chose not to be jabbed and is now facing numerous isolation periods at home on full pay where the rest of us have to carry on and cover her workload. Nature of the job means she's likely to be a close contact fairly regularly.

Even if she changed her mind and gets jabbed tomorrow, it'll be 10 weeks minimum before she's exempt from isolation so this could happen several more times yet.

Aibu to feel resentful and wish she bloody well got jabbed like the rest of us?

Voice of reason my arse. Just another antivaxer spreading misinformation.

It was much more subtly and skilfully woven into the post than the usual MN vaccine misinformation. Points for that.

@PraxisandHypatia and @Narutocrazyfox

Thank you and I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking what I do.

I also have not come across anything like the vitriol on this thread in real life.

I'm in France and about half the people I know are vaccinated and the other half are not. All have a "live and let live" attitude to vaccination and agree that it is and must be a personal choice.

Thank goodness. And people who feel more strongly are able to agree to disagree without clamouring for non vaccinated people to lose their jobs / right to health care / etc.

And in a lot of mainstream circles in France you would come across as very ignorant and closed minded if you started calling people "anti vaxxers" or any other such slur because they decline a covid vaccine.

I currently can travel freely in the EU as I have a covid recovery certificate. I cannot however come to the UK unless I have 2 doses of a vaccine for a virus that I have had and currently have good immunity to.

It's crazy.

The entry requirements for the UK are political not scientific or prioritising public health.

I'm a British citizen and I'm currently refused entry to the UK because I'm not vaccinated even though I have had covid within the last 6 months and am less of a transmission risk than a double jabbed person.

And if brexit hadn't happened the UK would be using the same rules as the EU and I would be able to enter.

It's political bullshit and does not inspire confidence and trust.

Voice of reason, my arse

@SusieBob

Voice of reason my arse. Just another antivaxer spreading misinformation.

Snap.

Oh please with the "anti vaxxer" personal attacks. Haven't you anything of actual substance to say?

Did you miss where I mentioned that my DD is vaccine injured? Would you jab your kid with a new type of never used before vaccine in my position? My doctor and allergist certainly wouldn't.

Can you demonstrate that Pfizer followed all regulations and protocols? Can you demonstrate that Moderna is not a new player in the pharmaceutical industry and has failed to bring any other products to market? Can you prove that mRNA techniques have been used in human vaccines for long enough for us to have long term safety data?
Can you show that covid vaccines are effective at preventing transmission at rates high enough to justify their huge cost? Can you reassure me that we won't be required to constantly boost covid vaccines?

You can do none of the above. Calling me names such as "anti vaxxer" is easy though

If you want people to continue to roll up their sleeves you will need more than just vitriol, personal attack and populist slurs.

Forcing people out of their jobs will no doubt work but as I said before, be careful what you wish for.

@Mariamaza8 @ItsmyaddressIsntit

But it's not just her body. If the colleague spreads the virus she could kill somebody. We should all be doing our utmost to stop the spread. I know you can still speed the virus if you have the vaccine but it is far less likely and by having the vaccine and taking other measures, you are doing the most you can do.

@Beachcomber

Oh please with the "anti vaxxer" personal attacks. Haven't you anything of actual substance to say?

Did you miss where I mentioned that my DD is vaccine injured? Would you jab your kid with a new type of never used before vaccine in my position? My doctor and allergist certainly wouldn't.

Can you demonstrate that Pfizer followed all regulations and protocols? Can you demonstrate that Moderna is not a new player in the pharmaceutical industry and has failed to bring any other products to market? Can you prove that mRNA techniques have been used in human vaccines for long enough for us to have long term safety data?
Can you show that covid vaccines are effective at preventing transmission at rates high enough to justify their huge cost? Can you reassure me that we won't be required to constantly boost covid vaccines?

You can do none of the above. Calling me names such as "anti vaxxer" is easy though

If you want people to continue to roll up their sleeves you will need more than just vitriol, personal attack and populist slurs.

Forcing people out of their jobs will no doubt work but as I said before, be careful what you wish for.

Report it as a personal attack then.

There was misinformation in your post and as far as I'm concerned 'experimental vaccine' is the sort of language ant vaxxers use.

I'm a British citizen and I'm currently refused entry to the UK because I'm not vaccinated.

That’s also not true. You are permitted entry but with home quarantine. (And I speak as someone whose home country has actively shut out its non-resident citizens.)

I don’t think people are calling you an anti-vaxxer because you’ve declined the vaccine - as you say, the reasons for that can be varied and complex.

I reckon it might be because of the misinformation you keep including in your posts.

(NB I am not calling you an antivaxxer, I try not to apply the term to individuals. However I do think you are someone actively spreading untruths about the vaccine.)

@ilovesooty

What a strange way to see the world and people.

I find the desire to categorise people and pigeon hole them as anti this and pro that really really concerning and, as I said above, rooted in a populism that is way too political for my liking when the matter at hand is public health.

mRNA vaccines are experimental as they have never been used outside trials before. Experimental does not mean bad. It means trying something new and innovative that hasn't been done before. As I said above I hope they turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread. But in the meantime whilst we are finding out (cos it's our first go at this hence why the technology is considered experimental) I think it is OK for people to continue to exercise their right to informed consent.

And silly unscientific rules about who can come to work and who can travel where are unhelpful, divisive and politicising.

As we can clearly see on this thread.

I wish you luck in garnering support for your position on this even if it strikes me as polarised and unscientific. However, I don't think shouting "anti vaxxer" is a particularly convincing argument. It rather lacks nuance and substance.
So forgive me if I remain wholly unconvinced to join in the current rather rabid fight to erode right to informed consent.

Are you sure they're getting paid?

@Ozanj

My workplace has said that all unvaccinated colleagues including pregnant ones must have medical proof for vaccine exemptions. If they don’t isolation leave is unpaid but pregnant colleagues do get offered early mat leave if it’s easier.

This is a very good way of doing it.

mRNA vaccines are experimental as they have never been used outside trials before. Experimental does not mean bad. It means trying something new and innovative that hasn't been done before. As I said above I hope they turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread. But in the meantime whilst we are finding out (cos it's our first go at this hence why the technology is considered experimental) I think it is OK for people to continue to exercise their right to informed consent.

As you’re having digs at people about being unscientific, it would be great if you could stop using the term ‘experimental’ in a scientifically incorrect way.

These vaccines are not in the experimental stages. Those hurdles have been cleared. Continuing to say they are experimental in a way that is contrary to the scientific use of the term is a common anti-vaccine trope.

If you’re truly confused, this and many other resources may help. In a nutshell: they’ve passed phase three trials and are licensed for use; Pfizer now has full FDA approval and Moderna isn’t far off. There is no suggestion that the MHRA and EMA won’t follow suit, but there is no urgency for this - it is largely a bureaucratic hurdle at this point and regulator resources are better directed to CMAs for further vaccines and treatments.

It is also worth bearing in mind that we have more data on these vaccines than any pharmaceutical rollout in history, being monitored much more closely.

The mechanics of mRNA and adenoviruses have been studied for many years and are reasonably well understood.

These are not experimental pharmaceuticals. We’re past that.

@Beachcomber I'm not alone in my view of your posts and the language within them.

@JassyRadlett - great post.

@JassyRadlett

My apologies I was not precise enough, you're right.

I am currently refused entry unless I agree to quarantine for 10 days, isolate at an address that I provide on a passenger locator form and undergo tests on day 2 and 8 of my stay. Despite my having a covid recovery certificate and being less of a risk of spreading the virus than a vaccinated person who has not had covid is. Yet they can enter the country and go about their business.

And like most people I work so it's impossible for me to visit my family currently even though I am not a risk to them or anyone else. I haven't seen my family for 2 years and I'm not likely to soon as UK rules demand that I be double jabbed whilst the French medical system advises 1 jab only.

I'm so frustrated by the nonsensical rules. Whether they are intended to be or not they are coercive. Which seems to be pretty popular on this thread amongst all those who are willing to jettison informed consent.

I'm so frustrated by the nonsensical rules. Whether they are intended to be or not they are coercive. Which seems to be pretty popular on this thread amongst all those who are willing to jettison informed consent.

I can understand that, these are questions of policy rather than science, but I can also understand the scientifically cautious approach particularly when there isn’t a domestic equivalent to Covid recovery certificates, and there are concerns about how using immunity certificates might inadvertently encourage people to try to catch Covid as an alternative to vaccination, and the evidence on post-6 month immunity is shaky at best.

Meanwhile, my country is truly shutting me out. In an extreme emergency I could apply for an exemption, and then spend fourteen days in a quarantine hotel. That’s if I can get the exemption (I know so many who have been denied) and if you can get a flight and a spot in a hotel.

I sympathise for your situation.

The mechanics of mRNA and adenoviruses have been studied for many years and are reasonably well understood.

Great. I'm not 100% reassured by "reasonably well understood" however.

I'm not confused and I'm using the word "experimental" in layman's terms as I said above to mean new and innovative and not used outside trials before the roll out of covid vaccines. I'm not sure why people are so hostile to this idea that it's OK to call something new and being used for the first time in the general population as experimental. I thought that was the whole point of the fast tracking, etc - so that a new and innovative approach to vaccination which is much faster than traditional methods could be put to emergency use in the pandemic situation we found ourselves in.

Which is hopefully a brilliant and important medical advance.

Good stuff.

I still think citizens of democratic countries should be allowed to decline vaccines however.

I think it should be unpaid, we all know the risks, I bet if it was unpaid she' make sure she was safe

Yep selfish and self centred x

Yabu very much so.

She made the choice not to have the vaccine, I'm more concerned about the amount of vaccinated who don't have to isolate because let's face it and stop kidding yourselves, you're the ones spreading covid like wildfire because you 'don't' have to isolate.

Think it's about time you all stopped this divide against the unvaccinated when it's you vaccinated causing most of the spread.

You don’t have to isolate now if a family member in same household tests positive, the positive person does, but no one else. My local authority says that if we have a family member test positive (I work in social care with CEV individuals) we can’t come into work but can go about our other business as normal just can’t go into work.

I'm not confused and I'm using the word "experimental" in layman's terms as I said above to mean new and innovative and not used outside trials before the roll out of covid vaccines. I'm not sure why people are so hostile to this idea that it's OK to call something new and being used for the first time in the general population as experimental. I thought that was the whole point of the fast tracking, etc - so that a new and innovative approach to vaccination which is much faster than traditional methods could be put to emergency use in the pandemic situation we found ourselves in.

Reasonably well understood = as well as we understand most biological processes.

The trouble with ‘layman’s terms’ is that there is no such thing as a common understanding, and you are using a term that people know (‘experimental drug’, experimental pharmaceutical’) and using it in a way that is contrary to that understanding that already exists. You are also using the word contrary to the usual understanding of the terms ‘experiment’ or ‘experimental.’

And so people will think it is somehow different from other pharmaceuticals that have any form of regulatory approval - that it has not been through the same trials, that corners have been cut, that we don’t have the same level of scientific understanding of them as for other pharmaceuticals that are deployed. If anything the opposite is true - with billions of doses over a year being very closely scrutinised we probably know more about these than for any pharmaceutical deployed in decades.

And let’s be honest. ‘Experimental’ doesn’t just mean ‘new’ or ‘innovative’. It literally means based on untested ideas or techniques, and not yet established or finalised. Because it comes from the root word ‘experiment’ - the process used to discover or determine something.

There is nothing experimental about the vaccines currently being used. The tests are done. They’ve cleared trials.

You’re not using the term in either a layperson’s sense of the word (if one exists) or a scientific sense of the term. So why keep doing it, if not to sow doubt about facts?

If you mean new, why not say new?

@munchkinman

Yep selfish and self centred x

Yep.

@SusieBob

Voice of reason my arse. Just another antivaxer spreading misinformation.

100% this. 'Beachcomber's' post (from 11.44 today,) IS nothing but anti-vax drivel. The anti vax bullshit being spread (by several posters, on this thread,) is scary. Fortunately, most people on here are intelligent enough to know it's all bollux.

@MissCruellaDeVil

Why should everyone suffer because some selfish prick won't get vaccinated?

This ^ in spades.

I have said this before and I will keep fucking repeating it.

STOP PAYING PEOPLE THEIR WAGES, WHO ARE SELF ISOLATING, IF THEY CAN'T BE FUCKED TO GET VACCINATED.

Watch the f**kers all get the jab then. Wouldn't surprise me if the woman swinging the lead at the OP's place has HAD the jab, but is lying so she can fucking skive and get full pay.