To still feel sad about my lack of effort proposal?

[Rainbowinabasket]

Even though it was 17 years ago!
DH just said ‘suppose we’ll go and look for a ring then.’
We’d been together for only two months and I was only 21 at the time.
I feel it set the scene for a generally lacklustre marriage where he’s never made much effort.
The wedding party all stopped in the hotel the night of the wedding and the following morning he went and sat with his mates rather than me.
Aibu to still feel a bit disappointed? I probably need to get over it!

Yanbu but it sounds like the subsequent marriage is the problem, not the proposal.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

I think you should focus on the crap 17 years not the crap proposal

This. Get the whole sad shebang in the past.

I can’t say my dh’s proposal was at all romantic - he was working overseas at the time, would have liked me to join him, but I would never have been given a visa unless we were married.

I never had an engagement ring, which did upset me a bit at the time, but he couldn’t bring himself to do something (to him then) so terribly uncool and (I suspect) bourgeois.

None of that has stopped him being a fantastic husband and father, though. And he did buy me a lovely ring right after dd2 was born.

@SoupDragon

I've just listened to a pod cast about this oddly enough. Tom Davies and Ramesh Ranganathan were talking about how they proposed to their wives and both had different views. Tom did a full bells and whistles proposal (which he said was incredibly stressful and caused h I'm great anxiety) and Rome's just basically said to his then girlfriend "Marry me" whilst on the sofa one evening. Both thought the other's proposal was the better one. Tom said that Romesh's one was more meaningful s it came out of the blue and straight from the heart.

That s said though, I agree with poster who said the problem isn't the proposal it's the marriage that came after. You can't fix the proposal but you can fix the marriage one way or another.

Tom was right.

I think the crap 17 years is the bigger problem but it does all sound a bit crap

You don’t have to stay with him if you’re unhappy

Hmm DH proposed on the spur of the moment - romantic location, but totally unplanned. I chose the ring, on my own (he hates shopping) and he paid for it when he collected it I seem to recall we spent a lot of our wedding reception separated to get round all the people.

I knew I was marrying a man of limited romantic gestures but he brought me a cuppa this morning and always makes sure I have a fresh bottle if water on my bedside table. There aren't many "you look gorgeous" moments and he'd rather put pins in his eyes than hold my hand in public but he's a decent, loyal chap and I hope we'll have as many of the next 32 years as possible. We'll be late 90s by then

You really don’t have to stay with him.
Write down the reasons you feel you need to stay and then have a good think about whether they really are strong reasons to stay.

You’re only 38, don’t stay in an unhappy marriage for another 40 plus years.

This isn’t just what men are like (well some are), but it doesn’t mean you have to put up with it.

For comparison: My DH does half the housework, in the evening we alternate looking after the baby (including nappies) and cooking dinner/doing chores. So when the baby is in bed we both have free time.

And this is while I’m on maternity leave - my “job” during his office hours is looking after the baby. After his office hours - e.g. night times and weekends, looking after the baby and housework is split between us.

To be fair I didn’t have a grand proposal either, but I didn’t want one - we just decided between us that we wanted to get married.

I had a crap proposal and a non eventful wedding. But my DH is amazing and I’d take that over a fancy wedding and a shit DH any day. Your DH and your marriage are the problem, the proposal and wedding are just details.

I wonder if the lacklustre proposal is still resonating BECAUSE of his ongoing careless attitude to you after many years.

My husband didn't even actually propose. We had talked about it and I was keen to marry - he was less keen (had had a brief unsuccessful previous marriage) but accepted it was important to me. On Christmas day the ring was in a box wrapped up under the Christmas tree. It was lovely, I thanked him and put it on but there was no proposal. It wasn't very romantic and we were just at home in our flat.

For quite a few years it did niggle especially when friends and family members recounted down-on-one-knee proposals in exotic locations. But he has been a great husband and father, we are a great team and have each others backs. We share everything (earning power, housework, parenting). I know Mumsnet hates it when posters say this but we are also best friends and enjoy and appreciate each other's company even after 26 years. The proposal seems totally irrelevant now. In fact a lot of the men who made big showy proposals turned out to be lazy misogynists especially once the children arrived. There may be a correlation between a "romantic" proposal and a view of very traditional gender roles in a marriage. Unfortunately for you, you not only got one of those dinosaurs but without even the pleasant memory of early romance either.

Anyway, your husband sounds crap. Have a good think about what you want to do. I bet if you do separate you will be much happier and never think about the proposal again.

If you want to save your marriage, you both need Relate counselling. Find a time when the kids are I bef and then you need to let him know assertively what you want. IE shared chores and child care. You should both have the same amount of down time. Just because you work 28 hours does not mean, you do 100% house work. EG It means you both work from 9-5 Mon -Fri either doing work or housework and after 5, and weekends, chores are split 50-50.

If he can't agree to this or tries for a week or so then you have to make a decision whether to stay in this unhappy situation or split.

My kids don’t really like the contact time - the eldest is fine with it as a teen because she doesn’t need much looking after! I asked her there a solution to your brother boy liking going to Dad’s other than being 12 (the age when she became happier there) and she outright said “no, that’s the other solution, you need to be old enough not to need looking after”.

But they like it better than unhappy, arguing parents and an unhappy and exhausted Mum

*brother not, rather than brother boy

What does he say when you talk to him about how you’re feeling about all of this OP?

It sounds like you are settling for a life that isn’t making you happy. I don’t understand why people stay for the kids, children are pretty perceptive and can tell when their parents aren’t happy. Also, we often use our parents relationship as a benchmark of how relationships should be, do you really want to be teaching them to just settle for a relationship where they don’t feel valued, respected and happy?

I would have a talk with your DH about it all and how you are feeling and see if you can work on things from there. A relationship should be a true partnership, teamwork and support, not you feeling like the one who makes all the effort all the time.

I think you are seeing the crap proposal as the kicker to start off a crap 17 years worth of marriage. It sounds like you two are just plodding along and you are unhappy.
His not looking after you when your ill, or not making an effort with the DC. Is this all the time? Or was it that odd time where he was a bit thoughtless and just didn't think?

Aww, that’s almost word for word how my Dad proposed to my mum. 55 years later he still worships the ground she walks on. Hes just a man of few words, and a big grand proposal, with the possibility that she would say no, would have mortified him.

Is your dh my dh also?! My dh’s ‘proposal’ was during a general conversation whilst out for a walk and he basically asked whether I thought we would get married someday. Not a direct ‘will you marry me.’, no gesture of kneeling down etc, but just a everyday, talking-of-the future conversation.

It’s a sign of things to come - he’s not the romantic type. However, twenty five years later, every so often, when I hear of other people’s proposals or see something on tv, I still get a tinge of sadness.

Hi OP. I’m really sorry you feel like this. When you say, your wedding party suddenly stopped in the hotel - who / what stopped it? Did he chuck the guests out or something (except for his mates)?

I do think it’s true yes, that men who make no effort when dating or when they propose will carry this attitude through life. Why wouldn’t they? If they don’t make an effort to begin with, they’re hardly going to be making an effort 10 / 20 years on, are they? Leopards dint change their spots and also (I’m sorry to say), women will get whatever they’re prepared to put up with.

Sounds like you’re at a point in your life where you’re “waking up” and taking stock. It happens to us all.

Many women genuinely have no idea how to put themselves snd their own needs first. They just don’t know how to begin. If possible, would you consider a course of psychotherapy? You’ve started to express yourself on here today. I can’t tell you how invaluable talking to an impartial professional can be in providing perspective and a sense of self. Please consider it if you can.

Aw, OP.

You're upset because he's a shite, not because of the proposal.

You don't have to stay.

You married someone after only 2 months and after a totally lacklustre proposal. Of course it was an indicator of the future. So now what? You honestly don't have to stay forever in a marriage that started out lacklustre and just carried on the same way. Your self esteem would start to recover if you left, though maybe you need to do more individual work on your self-esteem to give you the confidence to pack this in?

it’s things like he’s never ‘given’ me a lie in at the weekends - always me getting up with the dc. He’s never looked after me if I’m ill. He’s never come to any of my family things, although I go to his.

Unless you're from a culture where men and women's lives are segregated and women look after each other in the family, most blokes do give their wives a lie in and they do look after their wives when they're ill and they do come to their wives' family events. Oh, they might not do everything all the time, but they do at least some of these things most of the time. You have terminally low expectations. You expected little and you got less. This isn't just a few dried-out patches, most of the grass on your hill is a horrible smudgy brown.

I suppose he’s a man and they aren’t the same as women

Men are not all the same as each other. Did your parents have a terrible marriage or a lacklustre marriage as well? I'm guessing your father must have been a lacklustre selfish husband, or why would you think this is normal?

The kids wouldn’t like the contact time though, it’s part of why I stay.

Would he want much contact time, being as how he's lazy and selfish? Even if he does want contact they'd still be better off living with a happier you the rest of the time.

Proposals are outdated IMO. It’s a joint decision to get married. Sounds like he was testing the waters in case you said no? And he’d been engaged before, maybe he tried the romantic way and it fell flat?

I’d focus on his lack of effort now, not a proposal nearly 2 decades ago.

Sorry but he sounds like a horrible person and the proposal was the tip of the iceberg. You are fixating on the wrong thing. DH and I had a ‘lacklustre proposal’- he said something on the lines of I want to grow old with you, shall we get married? And that was that. No rings even. I am not a fan of rings. We now wear plain wedding bands.
But he’s thoughtful, kind, and an equal parent.

His penis does not drop him from being a good father (who gives his wife a break and looks after her when she is ill). In fact he’s not a good person. Most of us would look after the person we lived with when they were ill or give them a break.

My DH did propose on one knee, beautiful setting etc and I would say it is indicative of the kind of person he is with regards to effort around 'events' so he has always bought me amazing birthday gifts, not just objects but things like theatre tickets as he knows I've mentioned it. I think it shows a thoughtfulness in a marriage that you need for it to work but we are both quite opinionated so our marriage has had its moments. Fundamentally, it is love that draws us back to one another, do you actually love him or get that impression from him?

Why can’t you imagine a partner who gets up? Surely you have friends or know people who do? Are you very isolated?

DH would get up at night (I breastfed). He got up in the morning and did all the housework when I was on mat leave. He still does a lot of housework, cooks on weekends. I say this not to make you feel bad but to say that I don’t think he deserves a medal for this. We are both equal adult human beings raising children we conceived together. I don’t see why his genitalia means that he can’t or shouldn’t do these things.

I suspect in your husband’s case he will never change.

This is not a marriage. It's a job and the work is all yours.

What does he actually bring to the relationship?

It sounds like you have forgotten what real joy and love should be, or sadly don't think you deserve it