Can't we just send our kids to school and not have constant events or texts to think about

[monotonousmum]

I probably am being a little unreasonable, but I can't be the only one who thinks like this.

Eldest started school in September....I say September but in reality it was a complicated mix of an hour one week, 2 hours the next, then a week of mornings (one day with lunch), finally starting full time first week of October. I was already wondering how anyone actually manages to work.

I work full time, as does my husband. 1 younger child in nursery. School only contact one parent for general day to day stuff, and that falls to me (which is another issue in itself).

So...each week I have anywhere between 5-20 texts from the school (don't park in the car park, don't forget it pj day next week, sponsorship money due yesterday, school photo day, school dinner reminder etc etc), a selection of emails (usually with attachments that are too long for text), some letters in the book bag, notes in the back or front of the reading record book.
Sometimes there is stuff on the school calendar which hasn't been mentioned elsewhere.

I'm totally overwhelmed. Some of the info is repeated in several places (e.g. text to tell us we've received an email about children in need), but just the amount of info was totally unexpected to me.

There's all sorts of sponsored events, dress up days, changes to snacks or schedules.

Can't I just drop my kid to school, they teach her to to read and write (among other things) and then I pick her up and ask her what she's had for lunch and what she learned?? (Not that she ever remembers either).

Is the school OTT or are they all like this? Am I the only one not coping?

Communication with parents/ parental involvement is something we are required to work on in education these days - a lot of parents are actually quite demanding for more and get upset if we forget to inform them. A lot also don't read their messages, hence the repetition.

I think this has a lot to do with it. I'm now a class rep and on the parent forum so now see that some parents really do push for more and more info from the school and would basically love daily communications.

And then there are those who really really need to be spoon fed. Something will have been in the newsletter twice, and on the calendar on the website, and there will still be a fair number on the Whatsapp group claiming no knowledge of it the day before/I only just heard about this from my kid why didn't the school tell us sooner/oh what am I like?/etc. And this isn't just 'odd sock day/Egyptian day' sort of stuff, it's the Inset days that have been on the calendar since the start of the school year.

On occasion the question pops up when the answer to the previous person who asked the question is still visible on the phone screen. Deep breath, bite tongue, cut and paste because it's their kid who would miss out, not them.

Our school however did have issues around using too many channels (School gateway, email, school newsletter, Google Classroom, note in the bag, etc.) A lot of this wasn't because the central team didn't have a clear idea of what channel was for what, but because individual class teachers/activity coordinators/whomever started using different methods for their own stuff.

The school acted on the feedback and we helped them to create a clear manual for what communications channels would be used for what purposes, and then shared with all parents so that they knew what they could expect to see where, and how often.

Still hasn't stopped all the need for spoon feeding. And I can understand the school sending out a tired 'please order your children's meals at least the night before so we know who we're feeding' after yet again a large number of kids showed up for school dinners without them being ordered.

So I get where you're coming from, OP, and the comms from your school sound really disorganised and fragmented. But I do have a bit of sympathy for schools on this one too as I don't think they can win, particularly with parents who either want to hear every detail of their child's day, or who apparently never open an email from the school, read the newsletter or check the calendar.

I appreciate teachers and staff are putting in a huge amount of unpaid work and I'm grateful for this. But surely if they are supervising an out of hours event anyway, remaining at school in the interim isn't a huge additional burden?

It's not as if they are going to be able to get a load of marking done in an hour after getting home and eating anyway is it?

The teachers won't be going home if there's a short time between the end of school and the event. They will mark at school, they will eat at school, they will put off seeing their own families in order to do something nice for the children. So, yes, asking them to babysit 30 children each, unpaid, when they are already volunteering their evening at the end of a working day, unpaid, is definitely an unreasonable ask.

This really isn't about teacher-bashing: if you read my other posts I've said I think schools walk a really difficult line here and I'm massively grateful for all the unpaid work teachers put it. I just sometimes think some of the logistics of this isn't thought through that well in terms of the impact it has on people who are contractually obliged to work 9 to 5 hours.

But the parent would have to collect their child at the end of school anyway with whatever arrangements they usually make if their 9 to 5 means they aren't the person who collects. The only difference with late afternoon/evening events is that the child comes back at some point.

If picking up and returning is too much, parents can put their child in the dedicated after school care that the vast majority schools offer. However, it will cost them to do so.

There is definitely no easy answer to this and you'll not get it right for everyone.

I'm a PTA chair and this week got it in the neck from a parent because of a reminder email about a deadline to buy something. She'd missed all the other comms about it and I was to blame. There had been 5 opportunities for her to engage with different messages. But no, it was my fault. I was trying to manage this event whilst working full time.

I think when the school goes quiet and there's nothing to say, then we'll all be up in arms.

You can review the title of the email 'New Lego Club for Yr4' - I don't need to read that, I don't have a child in Yr4. Get one that says 'Book your parents evening' - maybe engage with that one.

I appreciate teachers and staff are putting in a huge amount of unpaid work and I'm grateful for this. But surely if they are supervising an out of hours event anyway, remaining at school in the interim isn't a huge additional burden?

Are you kidding? Supervising a school full of kids in the time when they'd usually be marking, planning and prepping their lessons, maybe nipping out for a bite to eat in between the two bits of work?

I'm not always Team Teacher on MN but this is really tin eared.

School logistics are a nightmare for working parents, don't get me wrong. I've missed a huge amount of my kids' stuff and called in more favours than I'm comfortable with. But on this one I think you've got the wrong end of it, teachers are often using the time between school and evening events to do the work that can't be done in school time, and I don't really blame them for thinking that they'd like to grab a bite to eat maybe between afternoon school and an evening event.

If picking up and returning is too much, parents can put their child in the dedicated after school care that the vast majority schools offer. However, it will cost them to do so.

I wish we had one of these schools where after school care was magically available on tap on demand, and not hugely oversubscribed.

I see people asking for one form of communication. We have the Class Dojo app and everything goes on there (which is very useful). However we still get texts and emails. I don't mind all the communication to be honest. I find it helpful to have reminders. What I struggle with is the constant events. Do there have to be so many each week? I remember a week where on Monday those in Brownies/cubs etc should come to school in their uniforms, on Tuesday it was odd sock day, on Wednesday we had to make cakes and bring them in, on Thursday they had to bring in something from their travels and on Friday it was fancy dress. Several of these required additional donations (again I don't mind donating to charity) but it's just too many things going on each week. When I was at school in the 80s it wasn't like this at all. There were occasional events but not several every week.

@JassyRadlett

If picking up and returning is too much, parents can put their child in the dedicated after school care that the vast majority schools offer. However, it will cost them to do so.

I wish we had one of these schools where after school care was magically available on tap on demand, and not hugely oversubscribed.

Ah, so ours is oversubscribed but, if you contact them enough in advance, the team will usually work something out for you with one-off / short-term situations.

@thepeopleversuswork

I don't understand why, if kids are staying to a late afternoon/early evening event like a disco or cinema evening, they can't just remain on school premises?

Why don't they just sleepover at school too seeing as though they will hardly be at home that night??

I would not want my child at school 8.30am to say 7pm!!!!**

We have this too OP and it's really not necessary. When my eldest DC started primary school, school communications were done on paper. Somebody had to print off hundreds of copies of each letter, take them to all the classroom, put them into book bags...it was very labour intensive, and costly in terms of paper and toner use. As a result, they were very organised and we got a concise newsletter containing all the information we needed every couple of weeks, and that was all (except in emergencies like school closure due to flooding etc).

Since schools have embraced digital communication, it seems to have brought about a kind of information incontinence. In addition to the weekly newsletter, communications trickle out several times a day... come to our Book Look, take part in the Cake Bake, please provide a costume for your child on Ancient Egyptian day, sign and return this consent form for swimming lessons, ensure your child is looking smart when the school photographer comes in next Wednesday, remember that lunch boxes must not contain chocolates or sweets, can we have volunteers for the Christmas fair...

Now my eldest is at senior school, we have (slightly) fewer emails, but as others have said, communications are spread over more platforms. So the newsletter is still by email, but the announcements are on Twitter, PTA uses Facebook, and as I don't have Insta I missed the PE teacher's message that Trampoling Club after school this Thursday had been postponed until next Tuesday lunchtime.

This plethora of multiple messages each day over multiple platforms does make things ridiculously time-consuming!

I think there are various levels of parental input.
I am involved with my children's education in that

I ensure they get to school on time, in clean, correct school uniform with the required
books/stationary/pe kit/food tech ingredients etc.

At home they have space to do homework, and suitable stationary/equipment/ laptop etc I prompt them to do it and get involved and help if needed.

I complete all the consent forms and make sure their parent pay accounts are in credit.

I communicate with the teachers if they have either had an issue with the work set, or are not completing the required work.

I participate in parents evenings and come to sports days and concerts etc. And provide costumes for world book day.

All these things are pretty basic but necessary involvements. But while I would be mortified if my child felt left out, its the wear something in your house colour, (that might be orange or purple) provide a (very specific) costume for an assembly, bring a pound for that charity, bring a paper plate with a nut free, non perishable selection of party food, that might tip me over the edge.

DS left primary last year, and I was really impressed how many events and activities the school managed to put on despite the covid restrictions. But there were probably 5 or 6 events in the last 2 weeks of term which seemed like an admin overload (especially as the preceding period had been quiet on the events front)

One day (sports day) I forgot to send DS with costume for the end of year play...because I'd already had in mind that was "wear house colours pe kit for sports day" ...which it was, but they were also filming scenes from the play that day as well. I saw the bag in the hall and dithered whether to deviate my way to work by dropping it at school, or deciding he didn't need it. I made the wrong call and he was really upset. Its a tricky balance.

I agree.

I'd much rather be told... Folks ideally we would love to raise £40 a year from each family through xyz. However if you can make any donation, bank details very greatful. Then it's done?

To too many itty bitty things going on!!
It's endless! And counter productive the aim is to raise money not punish us.
Then again it's also rather dubious what they spend their money on at our school.
Very poorly managed in my opinion.

*I would not want my child at school 8.30am to say 7pm!!!!

Well lucky you have this choice then isn't it. Some of us don't.

Yanbu and it’s poor organisation from the school. What they should be doing is asking all of the staff to send info to a central source in the school or add it to a communal google drive document by a certain cut off point each day so that it’s then consolidated and sent to parents as one daily bulletin. Then the information is all in one place for easy reference and delivered at the same time. Might be worth telling them this as some schools are run by people without much of a clue. I say that as an ex deputy head! They just need a simple plan in place. Of course, it won’t reduce the amount of stuff to read but it will make it feel less like a constant bombardment and it removes the worry that you might miss something key.

@WaltzingToWalsingham

Yes I think that’s exactly it.

We have a class rep system with a parent nominated to push out messages to each class via WhatsApp, manage queries etc.

I’m one of the reps and the number of times per week we get asked to send out messages is ridiculous.

It’s all stuff that could either be planned further in advance and go in the school or PTA newsletter or dispensed with altogether.

The problem is that some schools are still set up in a way that assumes there is a parent at home.

The staggered start is a prime example of this. Most of the kids in DSs class had been in nursery prior to starting school so didn't need two weeks to settle in. It's a nightmare for working parents.

Another large part of what I end up doing as a class rep is going through all the emails, newsletters etc and pulling out the important info (diary dates, deadlines etc) and summarise it. It’d be so much easier if there school did this instead of burying it in pages of newsletters.

I deliberately found a Junior School that didn't do all the dress-up days after suffering this with Infant School. Friends though I was boring but the bliss of not needing to dress a child in green, or red or yellow. Or as a princess (as they're trans, this always felt really inappropriate anyway). We still got letters and texts etc but no where near as many. As a family with a SAHD for a while, I was still the one getting the calls so I totally get that too. You can ask the school to remove you but you will find it gets easier.

@SpinsForGin

The problem is that some schools are still set up in a way that assumes there is a parent at home.

The staggered start is a prime example of this. Most of the kids in DSs class had been in nursery prior to starting school so didn't need two weeks to settle in. It's a nightmare for working parents.

This is the heart of it for me tbh.

I totally get that teachers have long stressful days already etc and they need and deserve to find time for their personal and family lives. Not to mention all the unpaid school work they do.

It's more that the whole infrastructure of school seems to have been designed for an era where there was a parent at home all the time and in many ways hasn't really evolved. The staggered start is a good example who can take a fortnight off work to deal with this? but to be honest everything about it, the terms, the length of the day, are a constant nightmare for families where both parents work or for single parents. Everything like this is three dimensional chess.

I don't know what the solution is because obviously children and teachers need breaks so its not desirable or feasible for schools to have longer hours or terms than they do already. We have to live and juggle as best we can.

But it is sometimes striking that schools still seem to assume as a default that there is a person at home around the clock to deal with all this admin. Little things like scheduling "curriculum meetings" for parents at 10am on a Tuesday with four days' warning etc. If parents have to find time to do this then nine times out of ten they will but this needs planning, childcare to be booked etc.

I would just like to feel that the needs of working parents are built more into the planning assumptions of the school year and not a frantic afterthought that has to be raised by the working parent every time after the missives have gone out and the events have been planned.

So for me more communication, not less. The last thing I'd want is to not be able to communicate with teachers.

Spinsforgins, it's not a nightmare for all working parents, jobs can have fifteenth start times or can be from home, there is a way to have a good work life balance and have kids, no-one forced me to have kids and work

We don't get any of this, everything is on the app and the school website.

Maybe schools should start communicating through mumsnet, everyone seems to fit that in

@Fomomofo

True!

Maybe schools should start communicating through mumsnet, everyone seems to fit that in

🤣🤣🤣

@Fomomofo

Spinsforgins, it's not a nightmare for all working parents, jobs can have fifteenth start times or can be from home, there is a way to have a good work life balance and have kids, no-one forced me to have kids and work

I never said I didn't have a good work life balance. I also know that nobody forced me to have children but I do need to work to pay bills and buy food......

You are very fortunate if you have sufficient flexibility in your job to accommodate two weeks of staggered starts without it causing some stress.

I stand by my point that many schools operate on the assumption that there is a parent at home someone. In many cases I suspects it's a case of doing things how they've always been done but it's still an issue.

@Fomomofo

Maybe schools should start communicating through mumsnet, everyone seems to fit that in

I'm surprised it's taken this long for this little dig to appear. 🙄

Has anyone asked why we've bothered having children yet?