To Agree with Money Saving Expert?

[backtolifebacktoreality]

Martin Lewis said this a few years back. I think it's very very true!

"Christmas has become a retail festival and it shouldn't be. Christmas should be joyous but causes some people unhappiness, debt and worry. Many people feel obliged to buy gifts for others that they know they won't use, with money they don't have, and cause themselves stress they don't need ... The gift of giving can be selfish as it can mis-prioritise people's finances and create a financial burden. If you give a gift to someone they're effectively forced to buy you one back ... It's time for us to get off this gift giving treadmill. Sometimes the best gift is releasing others from the obligation of having to give to you. Let's work together to ban unnecessary Christmas presents ... (However, if you feel you want to give something) Do a Secret Santa or give to charity instead".

@ILoveAllRainbowsx

I told everyone about 35 years ago that I did not want any presents and that I wasn't going to give any.

It takes all the stress of birthdays and Christmas away and makes them enjoyable.

I love this. Straightforward and to the point!

Oh and when people are always delighted with your carefully chosen gift, trust me, plenty of us are faking it, we're not delighted at all

Exactly. This is something that people need to stop being so polite about. Most of us genuinely would rather have nothing than something we don't want that we have to pretend to like then feel the guilt about the waste.

I think we realised when I asked my parents what they wanted for Xmas one year and they said they'd love a tagine. We actually were going to ask for the same thing! We live 12000 miles away from each other and there was a ludicrous situation where my mother was going to buy a heavy ceramic tagine and POST IT to us at a cost that was more than the bloody item! ! I was going to order in the UK and have it sent to her but she said 'oh but it won't be wrapped and it won't be a surprise!'
We realised it was ridiculous and agreed that if we both wanted bloody tagines then just buy it, wrap it and put it under the tree and we'd send a little card to put on it so we could separately exclaim our delight on Xmas morning.
This was even more ridiculous so from then we agreed Xmas gift giving was daft and we haven't done it since.
Same with friends. At most we exchange bottles of wine (bring them to the Xmas do and then drink them all!) . One lovely friend makes biscuits and does a biscuit drop on Xmas eve. That's lovely.

I stopped sending cards years ago (I'm too lazy to write them out)
I give money or vouchers for my adult kids so they can buy what they want (they tend to ask me for money so they can put it towards something they like)
My partner and I write lists to each other and we buy from them
I do buy for my mil (we lost fil in march) but she tells us what she'd like
I don't speak to my family so no hassle there
I'm so un-christmassy I don't even put up a tree as we go to my mils so no waste there
I refuse to but for buying sake

@BarbaraofSeville

Oh and when people are always delighted with your carefully chosen gift, trust me, plenty of us are faking it, we're not delighted at all

Exactly. This is something that people need to stop being so polite about. Most of us genuinely would rather have nothing than something we don't want that we have to pretend to like then feel the guilt about the waste.

Agree. It's such a monumental waste of time, effort and resources.

Funnily enough one of my family, when I said I wasn't going to give gifts anymore, said it was a great idea. They pointed out that we'd been buying each other variations of the same toiletries set, and that it made more sense for us to buy our own.

I like the whole idea of the thanksgiving vibe. Friends and family, no gifts. I find buying and receiving gifts extremely stressful I don’t enjoy it.

Tbh even with food gifts you just end up with piles of food you are eating for weeks on end (booze is always good as far as I’m concerned). Maybe I’m more of a bahhumbug ad I get older but I do feel really uncomfortable about how much of this stuff ends up in landfill.

I don’t want much and what I do want I can obtain for myself. We are only getting gifts this year so my DD can give as well as receive (only child) we haven’t bothered with presents in the past. The gifts will be things we already wanted so maybe topping up cologne or some nice socks etc

@backtolifebacktoreality

*Bonesintheocean * I'm not talking about what they buy their kids or grandma. Of course that's not my problem. It's not my business either.

What I'm talking about is when they buy me and my kids very expensive gifts. Of course they are lovely but I then feel I have to buy gifts back of the same value!

But you don't have to. So long as you are clear, upfront and in plenty of time, you don't have to match.

@ExConstance your gifts are not tat as you clearly think about them. Tat is the bayliss & harding given to someone who doesnt like it, or has sensitive skin and cant use it. Or bath stuff for those who only like showers etc

People who say "we don't buy tat!" Of course you don't. No one believes they buy tat. Everyone believes they have bought tasteful carefully selected gifts.

I remember someone on here saying that at one point they had claimed they 'loved penguins' as a passing comment in front of their PIL on a family outing to the zoo. From that point every birthday or Xmas gift from them had been penguin themed. She feigned joy and so this spread to family members as being an easy gift choice.

Friends then noticed there was so much penguin related ephemera in her home that everyone thought she was penguin obsessed and every birthday or Xmas was an avalanche of items bearing penguin memes; stuffed 🐧, statuettes of 🐧, knitted and embroidered 🐧, mugs, hankies, pillows, pictures and socks of the 🐧 type.

Every person I'm sure was delighted with their careful 'not tat' choice. She was murderous after several years of this and now had quite uncharitable thoughts about 🐧.

Friend likes gin. She makes it for a living and is a very successful businesswoman. Her Xmas gifts are all gin related. Most are lovely as they are drinkable but she's got a drawer full of gin related 'amusing' quotes on 'shabby chic' plaques/magnets and a bathroom cupboard full of things like 'gin and tonic bath salts' when she has no bath.

Again. The gift givers were just being kind yet she asked for nothing and it remains tat despite what the gift givers may think.

@Gwenhwyfar

How original you are OP! It's not like we hear this every single year is it?

Move on if you don't want to read it. Many others have commented!

@Smorgasborb. But did they ever buy her [penguin] bollards though?

OK, you're much cleverer than me with the [penguins]

People who say "we don't buy tat!" Of course you don't. No one believes they buy tat. Everyone believes they have bought tasteful carefully selected gifts.

No, I don't by tat because I buy what I actually know people want. Because they've put it on their wish list. Equally I don't receive tat, because I make a wish list too. The last time I remember receiving a present I didn't like was in about 1986. Dh sometimes goes off-piste and buys me something he's thought of, but he's never got it wrong so far. PIL don't do lists, so they did sometimes get it pretty wrong for dd, but they've got the hang of what she likes now.

Wish lists aren't presents, they're just another illustration of how pointless it all is.

What is the point me asking you to buy me a new Kindle and you telling me to get you a big bottle of that new perfume so we can say they're Christmas presents from each other?

Makes no sense at all. I want a Kindle, I buy it, you want perfume, you buy it, job done.

@ExConstance

This thread sort of makes me sad. I love Christmas, we are comfortably off and give money to charity too but I just love getting very carefully chosen presents for my family ( why are presents always called "Tat" on Mumsnet?) I learned from my mother to listen carefully all year and work out what people wanted or wished for. It might be soething little, like a blue plant to go in the border with the pink ones or a pear tree because they only had apple ones, or an ice cream scoop for someone who she had seen struggle with a spoon week in week out. It might be a big bottle of someones favourite perfume when i'd noticed they were nearly out. I can see the point of not giving if it isn't wanted by most of us don't buy ourselves little luxuries or even necessities we would like to have and the secret of good present giving is to get these. I will be sending cards, i love getting them, sending them, writing little notes to go in them and displaying them in my home. I'll be spoiling my adult sons with nice presents. There will be no tat! When all the decorations go back in the box on 5 January (yes, I make it last the full 12 days) I'll be a bit sad and start thinking about next year. I'm very aware there are other views on this but don't brand all of us Christmas lovers as unwanted tat merchants please!

The problem with this, is that there maybe a very good reason why they haven't got these things

They might not want a blue plant , they might not like pears.

An ice cream scoop is a weird present - somebody would surely by themselves one if they really needed it and it was an issue.

That favourite perfume? maybe they fancied a change and were not going with the same one again.

What I'm getting at is your thoughtful presents may still be regarded as unnecessary and unwanted by the recipient.

@BarbaraofSeville

Wish lists aren't presents, they're just another illustration of how pointless it all is.

What is the point me asking you to buy me a new Kindle and you telling me to get you a big bottle of that new perfume so we can say they're Christmas presents from each other?

Makes no sense at all. I want a Kindle, I buy it, you want perfume, you buy it, job done.

Agreed.

I have just had a genius idea with regard to solving the problem with my in-laws and Christmas / birthday gifts we don't want. I'm going to see if my husband will suggest it to them.

[quote BarbaraofSeville]@Smorgasborb. But did they ever buy her [penguin] bollards though? [/quote]
The sainted 🐧 bollards. Who knows. I bloody hope so!

I only buy for kids, partner and then a secret santa gift with my parents and siblings. It's not even the money saving aspect that appeals the most, it's the fact it saves me the hassle of planning and sourcing multiple extra gifts. So stress free.

Secret Santa budget is £150 which is affordable to all of us and means everyone gets a really decent gift.

So is a present only a present if it's something the receiver doesn't want or need BarbaraofSeville?

I find people who want to be surprised very hard work, but then I don't enjoy shopping and begrudge the mental effort of trying to please people. DH went through a phase of making me guess what he wanted and then being moody if it didn't amaze and delight him. I stopped trying and just bought him generic stuff because if I was going to be bitched at anyway then it wasn't worth putting in the effort.

@BlackAmericanoNoSugar

So is a present only a present if it's something the receiver doesn't want or need BarbaraofSeville?

I find people who want to be surprised very hard work, but then I don't enjoy shopping and begrudge the mental effort of trying to please people. DH went through a phase of making me guess what he wanted and then being moody if it didn't amaze and delight him. I stopped trying and just bought him generic stuff because if I was going to be bitched at anyway then it wasn't worth putting in the effort.

No, not at all. What I'm saying is I don't see the need for significant presents between adults at all. Fine to buy token flowers, wine, chocs etc, but leave everything else for people to buy their own things when they identify a want/need.

*The problem with this, is that there maybe a very good reason why they haven't got these things

They might not want a blue plant , they might not like pears.

An ice cream scoop is a weird present - somebody would surely by themselves one if they really needed it and it was an issue.

That favourite perfume? maybe they fancied a change and were not going with the same one again.

What I'm getting at is your thoughtful presents may still be regarded as unnecessary and unwanted by the recipient*

I agree. When DP and I moved in together, a lot of our relatives took it on themselves to fill a perceived gap in our almost complete lack of ornaments by buying a load of them for us. It didn't enter their heads that we didn't have dust collectors ornaments because we didn't like them and didn't want them.

Wish lists aren't presents, they're just another illustration of how pointless it all is.

What is the point me asking you to buy me a new Kindle and you telling me to get you a big bottle of that new perfume so we can say they're Christmas presents from each other?

In practice, with my wishlists it goes more like "Some things I'd like would be lightweight jumpers in nice bright colours, a5 notebooks, any book by x author or y author, a voucher for a spa treatment, some cashmere socks, nice classy stationery of any kind, some knitting yarn - any kind, surprise me!'

Plenty of room for a bit of choice by the giver, which makes it more personal. I like choosing presents and I like receiving them.

Honestly, until I became a regular on MN I had no idea that so many people found it such a nightmare or so pointless (or how many men are so utterly shit at giving presents to their wives or girlfriends, but that's a whole other thread...)

My family stopped doing presents except for the kids. Occasionally we do secret santa stocking with a maximum of £20 for adults but only if we are actually seeing each other on Christmas day, just to have a few things to open, usually some chocs and charity shop stuff.

Honestly, until I became a regular on MN I had no idea that so many people found it such a nightmare or so pointless (or how many men are so utterly shit at giving presents to their wives or girlfriends, but that's a whole other thread...)
Same here.
I don't find it stressful because we keep gift giving to immediate family and most of us are open about what we would like.

If I want something I'm fortunate to generally have the means to get it for myself.

I give my DPs ideas for slightly more upmarket practical gifts for me i.e. things that I wouldn't go out of my way to pay over the odds for but I know I will use and will add to my quality of life e.g. high quality socks, fragrance I really like, new decent quality slippers/dressing gown/towels

I can't be doing with being gifted pointless tat unless its consumable food or drink. And I try not to do the same to others.