thinking its now time to get super tough on dog ownership?

[adam7485]

after what has happened in wales to that poor little boy i can't help thinking its time to not jus bring back dog licences but before you buy a dog you should have to take an exam to prove that you can look after it properly. not only that but if your dog attacks someone not only should it be taken away from you but from that moment on your banned from ever owning dogs. anyone agree with me?

[quote toconclude]@MrsDThomas
Too many Jack Russells are snappy and bad tempered and more people get bitten by labs than any other single breed. It's the owners not the breed.[/quote]
I don’t understand why people quoting these statistics don’t realise the reason there are more lab bites is that far more people own Labradors than any other breed so of course incidents of lab bites will be higher.

I think they do realise, I just think they're rightly pointing out that if you subjected labs to everything I've written on the list above (as well as obvious selective breeding to make them as big and strong as possible, like that bull in the above picture has been) they'd likely be just as deadly as bull breeds.

On the other hand I think labradors are bigger than I would want in a dog, but fatal labrador attacks are not something I have heard of

Labradors can do a hell of a lot of damage and could easily kill a child if they so wanted. This labrador attack resulted in an 8yo getting over 200 stitches to her face.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mum-takes-down-mirrors-home-20333269

They are BIG dogs and just as capable of causing damage to people as bully breeds.

Speaking about being ignorant to pure fact, dogs were banned in Reykjavik to try and limit the spread of tapeworm but they are not banned any longer. Other areas of Iceland didn't impose a ban at all. There's even a breed of dog called the Icelandic sheepdog - it's difficult to import other breeds to Iceland because they are rabies free and they want to keep it that way so there are strict quarantine requirments. Not because of potential issues with dog behaviour.

We used to have the same quarantine restrictions here, too, to keep rabies out. That obviously changed with entry into the single market, and the introduction of pet passports.

I wonder whether these quarantine laws should be re-imposed following Brexit? Not because of rabies (no evidence of it in this country to date) but to curb the number of dogs imported into this country.

[quote Knickynackynoo]@WiddlinDiddlin you're post is good on many levels.....still tried to move the issue away from the issue though doesn't it that you've dogs and don't want to that they would do something like this, where are the cases where people have used a dog to cover up human crimes and are you trying to say that's what happened here? Or as is also coming through on your post the poor boy was somehow to blame?? Deserved it did he??

And of ourse the dog should be shot. So should the owners as well but that's a different discussion isn't it.[/quote]
I don't really understand where you have got any of that from?

I have purposely NOT looked up the specific details of this case beyond the first news reports which did not mention breed, nor anything other than that the boy was at a friends house. I really don't see where I blame the boy given I don't actually yet know what happened!

Dogs absolutely can inflict some horrific damage to anything they attack, and if who they attack is a small child, a baby, a frail old person, that damage can be very severe, and fatal.

I work with dogs daily, I work sometimes, with dogs seized under the dangerous dogs act. I am more than aware of the dogs that are out there and what they can do, I am also absolutely aware of what my own dogs could do purely because they are dogs (and none of mine are big beefy bull breeds, but they are still animals with sharp teeth!).

None of my post is about victim blaming - children do things that may provoke dogs, they are still NOT to blame, because an ADULT should have been present to prevent it. Anything a child does in a situation where they wouldn't reasonably know not to do that thing.. is the responsibility of an adult.

When I say children can provoke dogs, that is true, a child staring in a dogs face, grabbing a dogs face, kissing noses, pulling ears, jumping on a dog, a babies panicked screaming.... all those things could very reasonably, provoke a dog to react.

HOW a dog reacts is down to a variety of factors, pain, prior learning, breed traits, personality traits, these will all play a part.

No child is ever 'to blame' for what an adult permits their dog to do - but it may well be that his actions triggered what happened.

Please do quote exactly where I say this child deserved to die, you really are taking the piss now!

The dog absolutely should have been euthanised, again i have said this multiple times, you appear to choose not to read that.

I am saying that we need a system (and believe me I am not the only one saying this within the professional dog world, there are vet behaviourists, dog behaviourists and ex police officers too) whereby dogs can be taken and assessed FIRST, before being euthanised IF it is possible to do that.

That assessment may (and this HAS been the case in the US where such facilities do exist) provide evidence that WOULD lead to the owners or responsible adult being found guilty of an offence/further offences.

@SirenSays I’m not sure what your point is.

@Trixiefirecracker I'm not sure what's confusing you...?

According to the BBC the child was attacked ‘on entering his friends house’, receiving unsurvivable injuries to his face and neck in a ‘violent’ attack.

The dog is 15 months old - breed as yet undetermined.

Sounds like it went for him as soon as he went through the door, so nothing that the child did or didn’t do - the dog just attacked the first person through the door.

If you look at the article the dog is terrifying.
It sent me down a banned breed rabbit hole and now I don't understand about "American Bullies" - seems to just be a way around legislation banning pitbulls

Reading the latest BBC article on this, it seems the dog had changed hands only a couple of days prior to the attack. Who knows what information the previous owner did or didn't pass on. I assume the responsibility, legally, lies entirely with the new owner. I hope this awful case leads to some changes, but I'm not sure exactly what they would be. So many people I know are just so trusting of dogs and don't believe something like this would happen to them.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59260354

Absolutely horrific, that poor boy .

Being able to advertise to sell or rehome dogs on Facebook should be banned and I’d question the intelligence of anyone who obtains a dog this way .

Sorry @WiddlinDiddlin now you have expanded I understand your position, I am just so sick and tired of this happening and sick and tired of people (you see it on here all the time) insinuating that the child is to blame.

Now ive looked up some of the details..

Big red flag factors here:

Dog in a new home.
Dog adolescent.
Firework season
Dog from a dodgy owner.
Stranger in the home.
No adult present.
Dog potentially previously displayed behaviour issues that might be relevant (aggression towards other animals is not automatically linked to aggression to children/adults).

There will almost certainly be more.

The attack on that little boy was absolutely horrific! I'm so sorry and feel sick if I think of the terror that child must have felt.
My parents always had dogs from animal shelters and it was only their last one which was horrible and very aggressive to children. They used to put her in kennels when we went to stay because the first time we saw her she bit my daughter's face. My parents had been assured the dog was good with children when they adopted her...
But may I just say that there are millions of dogs which live totally blameless lives and never attack or harm anyone. In fact when my cousin was about 3 he got hold of a carving knife and calmly began sawing off my aunt's labrador's tail. My aunt wondered why the dog was crying and yelping and went into the kitchen to see the dog sitting there with blood all over its rear end. A few days later, the same dog raced into the kitchen and refused to leave until my aunt followed him. The same three year old had got into a dangerous situation (sorry - no details here) and the dog helped save his life. You sometimes see things like this in the media but mostly they go unpublished.
Having a dog was the most comforting thing as I grew up - always there for a cuddle; never judgemental. And I feel that with them as pets, children can learn to be responsible and kind. I'd never have chosen a breed known for aggressive behaviour. And I'd never leave any dog alone with a child. Our only dog was well trained and loving but they are animals which need boundaries and love. If my husband liked dogs, I'd have another Golden Retriever from a reputable breeder tomorrow.

I think whoever is running the FB page that dog was advertised in, needs holding accountable to some degree.

You aren't allowed to buy and sell pets on FB anymore. It's totally irresponsible to buy or sell dogs on FB and the like because you know nothing about the other party.

According to a report I saw the other day the previous owner posted twice, trying to find someone to take it on and saying it was aggressive with other animals.

Whoever is running the group should have allowed that. And I would bet money, this man's adverts about the dog are not the only ones in there where people are selling their dogs. It won't be that his posts just slipped through and nobody running the group spotted it.

@StarfishDish "Suddenly, this dog comes bounding over out of nowhere! I told my dog to sit and wait which he did. This dog was jumping around us, going near me, going near the dog but then went near the pram so my dog then jumps up and moves himself in front of the pram! Told him to sit, which he did as this other dog still continues to jump about as the owner continues to stroll over, calling her name"

Couple of friends that walk a lot have now acquired "walking sticks" as along the old railway line they walk it has got so bad with dog walkers which exploded during lockdown but virtually every time they have a snarling or over enthusiastic dog go for them. Said dog now gets a wack with the stick with the usual indignant owner who can't understand they shouldn't be off a lead.

Licences were a good idea but waste of time now to reintroduce. That's face it enough people ignore the requirement for microchipping

"Said dog now gets a wack with the stick"...

FANTASTIC! An other poor animal being abued by humans and conditioed that attack is probably the best way of defence!

@Ylvamoon or maybe just learning to avoid people it doesnt know? If you look at street dogs in countries where sticks and stones are commonly used against dogs, few become aggressive unless cornered. They just become incredibly wary.

Couple of friends that walk a lot have now acquired "walking sticks" as along the old railway line they walk it has got so bad with dog walkers which exploded during lockdown but virtually every time they have a snarling or over enthusiastic dog go for them. Said dog now gets a wack with the stick with the usual indignant owner who can't understand they shouldn't be off a lead.

Great idea. Wonder if they take same approach to people approaching them asking for money.

@Porcupineintherough - that's a shocking attitude and might just not work out like that. Most UK dogs are not street dogs in that sense. And to top it, the dog might actually feel the need to defend itself and the owner- very dangerous indeed!
I hope that you respect ALL living creatures in RL and don't feel the need to wack (or kill) any creatures big & small with a stick for whatever reason.

I was talking about my experience rather than my attitude.

I think you should need a dog licence to own a dog. Similar to driving: a quick quiz on theory (training methods etc), a quick practical on controlling a dog.

There are so so many out of control dogs in the park newr my house and they always have an owner on the horizon bellowing “don’t be scared” or, worse “don’t pat her she bites”

Absolutely and kept on leads at ALL times when in a public space.