thinking its now time to get super tough on dog ownership?

[adam7485]

after what has happened in wales to that poor little boy i can't help thinking its time to not jus bring back dog licences but before you buy a dog you should have to take an exam to prove that you can look after it properly. not only that but if your dog attacks someone not only should it be taken away from you but from that moment on your banned from ever owning dogs. anyone agree with me?

Yes to a licence and a course on responsible dog ownership. There should be a whole module on the fact that “don’t worry, he is only being friendly” is not an appropriate sentence to say to children when they’ve been knocked down by your dog!

I’m so sick of dog owners who think there is something ‘wrong’ with my son because he is scared of dogs. There are so many irresponsible dog owners our and about that it is very difficult to tell whether the uncontrollable dog running towards you is friendly or vicious!

I picked a case from the Wiki list at random to investigate further. In the Leslie Trotman case ( based on photographic evidence of the crime scene) the dogs look like they were kept outside in a dilapidated ‘kennel’. The dogs had previously escaped on multiple occasions and the owner failed to take appropriate action in containing his animals made evident by the makeshift fence made of various large objects. It hardly paints a picture of loved dogs kept as family pets, does it? Responsible ownership, I think not? Is it fair to say there would have been some environmental factors at play with these dogs and their aggression? Now I admit I am a staffie owner and I think they are beautiful dogs, but I picked this case totally at random. I didn’t cherry pick it to conform with my views. What does that tell you. I do wonder.

‘There’s no evidence to suggest that banned breeds pose any additional threat to the public than legal types of dog’ other than a Wikipedia article. We can’t base legislation on Wikipedia.

Whether or not a dog is aggressive can be influenced by factors such as how they are bred and reared and experiences throughout their life. Breed is not a good predictor of risk of aggression. And, despite the legislation, dog bites in the UK continue to increase. Breed specific legislation not only fails to protect public safety, but has also resulted in the suffering and destruction of hundreds of dogs, that are deemed 'dangerous' simply because of how they look. there is no robust scientific research to suggest the breeds and types of dogs banned under the Dangerous Dogs Act are any more aggressive towards people than other dogs.

The information is out there. Get off Wikipedia and do your own research.

@WiddlinDiddlin you're post is good on many levels.....still tried to move the issue away from the issue though doesn't it that you've dogs and don't want to that they would do something like this, where are the cases where people have used a dog to cover up human crimes and are you trying to say that's what happened here? Or as is also coming through on your post the poor boy was somehow to blame?? Deserved it did he??

And of ourse the dog should be shot. So should the owners as well but that's a different discussion isn't it.

Also I’d like to add that the only reliable references in that Wikipedia article are a journal from Forensic Science International and a statistical analysis document from the government, both of which fail to mention dog breed. They simply talk numbers. The article is referencing media accounts when naming dog breed and this is very unreliable. We have to account for things like prejudice, media bias and misinformation, oh and the fact that a staffie bred with most other dog breeds will still look like a staffie! Really we’ve no way of knowing the breeds of offending dogs in historical cases as this is something the police and government are rubbish at even establishing, nevermind recording.

In Iceland they haven't allowed dogs since the 20s. I think that's amazing. Dogs are dangerous and can kill you in minutes. A cat for example can't do that even if they wanted to. In the example of this child, the dog was so crazed and angry it had to be shot so it didn't even calm down after the attack. Why you would want that kind of animal in their house, I have no idea. It always surprises me how ignorant people are to pure fact.

Totally agree that all dogs can be aggressive, but let's stop with this oh it's all nurture bollocks, because it is bollocks. Different dogs have genetically different temperaments why would we continue to use Collies sheep dogs Labs as guide dogs some dogs are genetically more aggressive, but yes all dogs given the circumstance coupled with poor ownership can be, the problem with staffies etc. Is that they do have aggression or whatever you want to term it as part of their genetic temperament, plus they are big/heavy powerful dogs, difficult to get away from difficult to pull off somone.

A few weeks ago we were just out in town tooing along with toddler in their pram, women walks past with a dog on lead and it suddenly tried to go fo DC in pram (they were coming towards us). The owners reflexes were good (thank God as the lead wasn't short enough and meant the dog could easily have jumped up into the pram to at least thigh height) but the dog was snarling baring teeth and straining, now I think it was some fluffy pomeranian type thing, now I could have (and would have if DH hadn't stopped me) kicked it flying across the road......could I have done that with staffie that weighed nearly the same as me?

I don't think licenses are the answer, but whilst ever you have arseholes like the person who bred this dog and the people that bought it, coupled with the vicereous minority that we often see on these threads who aren't particularly bothered about dogs killing children (they probably provoked em any way eh) and think because their dogs have heart a fly that is representative of every single dog in the country so they will vehemently oppose anything that they see as demonising dogs, then sadly you'll get nowhere.

When you take into account the sheer number of bull and bull cross breeds (there could be more fatalities because there are more of that dog), the disproportionate amount in rescues (so they’ve not always had a good start), the fact that banned breeds and similar attract criminals… is it any bloody wonder? It’s so complicated.

@Knickynackynoo
There is fuck all evidence to suggest that staffies or similar breeds have a disposition to be aggressive towards people. There is some evidence that the have a disposition to be aggressive to other animals.

Even dogs that were used in dog fighting (disgusting blood sport) had to be good with people.

Totally agree - when you add up the attacks on people, the poo on the ground everywhere, the infuriating barking, and the utter ridiculousness of those people who carry them around like handbags, it all needs to stop - apart from shepherds, some police officers and Army staff, and those with sight problems, people just shouldn't have dogs

@Binxthecat they are aggressive....end of and bravo fo proving my point so wonderfully 👏

@Fleshmechanic

In Iceland they haven't allowed dogs since the 20s. I think that's amazing. Dogs are dangerous and can kill you in minutes. A cat for example can't do that even if they wanted to. In the example of this child, the dog was so crazed and angry it had to be shot so it didn't even calm down after the attack. Why you would want that kind of animal in their house, I have no idea. It always surprises me how ignorant people are to pure fact.

Dogs are not banned in Iceland. They were banned at one time to avoid a type of tapeworm being passed to humans. As that became a non-issue. In 1984, the legislation changed and people were again permitted to keep dogs. They are not permitted to keep certain breeds, as is the case in the UK.

[quote Knickynackynoo]@Binxthecat they are aggressive....end of and bravo fo proving my point so wonderfully 👏[/quote]
@Knickynackynoo
The thing that people fail to understand is a reactive dog, or a dog that is aggressive to other animals is not the same as a dog that’s aggressive towards people. They are two different types of behaviour that come from totally different places in the dogs brain. Think about it… greyhounds and lurchers can make lovely pets, but I wouldn’t trust one with a cat or even a small dog unless it had been well socialised.

If we're going to have a dog licence, can we have a child licence too?

Dog licence should cost £1000.

Fine for not having one £3000.

Full refund of licence fee on completion of an approved training and handling course.

Happier dogs, safer owners.

@Checkedshirt you are disgusting again provi g my point......couldn't give fig about a childdying I the most horrific way possible, yes go on do make a joke out of it, children being ripped to pieces in a sustained attack is so very funny isn't it!

I think dogs make totally unsuitable pets.

[quote Knickynackynoo]@Checkedshirt you are disgusting again provi g my point......couldn't give fig about a childdying I the most horrific way possible, yes go on do make a joke out of it, children being ripped to pieces in a sustained attack is so very funny isn't it![/quote]
Actually I read @Checkedshirt 's post differently. Children deserve responsible owners. Say we do have licences etc.? It will then be harder to have a dog than a child. That doesn't seem right really...paying more attention to the suitability of dog ownership than we do to the suitability of being a parent.

@MrsDThomas

I know 4 families who have rehomed dogs from Romania.

Is it easier than rehoming a dog from the UK?

When i was a teen, my parents tried to rehome a beagle from the RSPCA and our terrace house with a very large enclisede and supersafe garden was not suitable for sone reason.

We got a Jack Russell pup after that and he lived until the grand age of 18.

Many rescue centres over here won't rehome a dog where there are children under the age of 13 in the home, but this isn't the case when it comes to rehoming a dog from countries like Romania etc.

Bignanny30

People keep going on about dog owners who are not responsible, but dogs are descendant from wild animals and all are unpredictable, even if they are cared for properly. When I was young, a relative had a guide dog - now you can’t tell me that they are not trained properly. But one day, it turned out that the dog was feeling ill, but as my then 7 year old cousin jumped off the sofa the dog must have been startled and bit him just below his eye. You can’t trust any dog

I think in this instance I don’t think the dog was at all unpredictable. Jumping on or off a sofa where a dog is snoozing, what did people expect.
What would your reaction be if someone comes jumping around your head when you are asleep. Especially if you are ill.
It is about respect and the thought (even at 7 years old) for someone or something that is having a snooze

MrsDThomas
I know 4 families who have rehomed dogs from Romania

Is it easier than rehoming a dog from the UK

When i was a teen, my parents tried to rehome a beagle from the RSPCA and our terrace house with a very large enclisede and supersafe garden was not suitable for sone reason

We got a Jack Russell pup after that and he lived until the grand age of 18

This is what I was saying earlier in the thread. I think rehoming centres in some ways are responsible for the amount of dogs around.

Their refusal to consider working families who are going to make sure the pups/dogs are placed in doggy daycare during the day if they are both at work or having an almost blanket ban on families with children when a carefully chosen dog with an added course on training and general dog/puppy care would take a dog out of kennels.
It isn’t stopping these people from getting dogs. They just go if they have the money to a breeder or they take a rescue from abroad
Or they end up at a puppy farm, or even a gumtree type site where there aren’t any checks or help in training or doggy/puppy care.
Just a case of paying up and making a choice.

For those that the rehoming centre rejects as “unsuitable” and the amount that can be charged for a puppy. No puppy farmer is going to stop breeding if people are still wanting to buy.

Isn't the problem with bull dogs, rottweilers etc the size of the jaws. They may or may not be more aggressive than a labador, but they can cause so much more damage.

I think in this instance I don’t think the dog was at all unpredictable. Jumping on or off a sofa where a dog is snoozing, what did people expect.

Imagine being a child and never able to play without thought or preplanning in your own home, which should be a place of complete safety. If this is a reasonable response from a dog, why on earth does anyone with children think they’re a suitable pet?

Sorry but I agree with @RobinPenguins on this.
I do not expect biting from my dogs under any circumstances at all. They have been sick and I’ve treated them medically and never once have they reacted with aggression. I would expect to walk, run, dance or bounce past them under any circumstances and not be bitten. Any dog that does would not be welcome in my home

@RobinPenguins

I think in this instance I don’t think the dog was at all unpredictable. Jumping on or off a sofa where a dog is snoozing, what did people expect.

Imagine being a child and never able to play without thought or preplanning in your own home, which should be a place of complete safety. If this is a reasonable response from a dog, why on earth does anyone with children think they’re a suitable pet?

The adults shouldn't have allowed the dog to be sleeping on a sofa where the children were "bouncing around" near its' head in the first place, though.

Of course the children should be allowed to run and play and be silly but that also means the dog should be able to sleep and relax somewhere where it won't be pestered by said children.