competitiveness and normal life

[ehuiph999]

I would like to preamble this by saying that I have only lived in the UK for a couple of years and am still trying to figure things out.

Spent the weekend socializing with friends and acquaintances - it struck me that so much of life seems so competitive. We're all parents with school-age kids and my impression is that most people around us are just constantly striving for more or the next thing or this but better. E.g. schools - not just any school but the right school, similar with houses, but also things like cars, clothes, hobbies. We're all professionals in London and yes, I do expect for my kids to say go to a good uni and have ok job, but I am also often just dont care about having to get the right thing - when my friends and people around me seem to care quite a lot about stuff. I just feel somewhat at odds, I guess.

I also feel unsure as to how best to navigate things for the kids. We are unlikely to leave the UK in the near future so they will grow up here. As any parent, I would obviously like them to have a nice life and I guess go to a top uni and get a good job, as I did. So do I have to instill this sense of competitiveness at a young age?

If you are not competitive your kids are likely to not be competitive. On the striving side, my experience is that professional people are used to being ranked and tend to strive wherever they are.

I think it depends on what you value, some value materialistic things and others value family time, experiences etc. No right from wrong really, but I agree that a lot of people nowadays are geared towards the 'insta' life - it feels quite draining tbh.

@pigcon1 it's not that am not competitive, well maybe I am not (although we are all professionals and I went to all the top unis and have done well enough in my chosen career), but would that also translate into having to get my kid the 'right' bike? Or make sure DCs are ahead of their peers and have the 'right' hobbies?

Maybe it does, which is why I am asking really. It's not something that I can ask people IRL

It's definitely become a lot worse for the over the years : you are not being unreasonable at all !

Do you live in West London?

I don’t think it is about the right bike or hobbies (although being musical certainly has a cache beyond performance - it’s those lovely grades), but people do care about their children being ahead of their peers and jockey for them to be seen as such (as much to bolster their kids as anything else). It does “work” in one sense but a lot of luck needs to go along with the effort and the kids can suffer as part of the process. In my trite opinion the best that can happen is that your child discovers what they love and develops a passion for that (and the parents nurture it - without the child having to be “best”)

@TeallyMcTealson

Lol

All I ever hear about are the wonderful jobs friends children have : it's never anything ' normal ' it's always the big bucks and they ' run the place ' and earn shed loads.
In a few cases I'm sure this is true ( and I know it's the truth ) , but with a few it's just posturing I think! I guess I'm a bit jealous as my two have very normal careers and will never earn the mumsnet six figures

@TeallyMcTealson Yes, how can you tell? ;-)

I just feel like I use up my competitive quota at work and the rest of the time just want to have a chilled life. But I think where I come from that sort of works and you will end up having a perfectly nice life. So a bit concerned that am doing my kids a disservice really.

The british school system is shite.I feel sorry for you to have to get your kids educated here.Parents here are often very uptight.schools put emphasis on unimportant stuff(eg.what hairstyles or shoes are acceptable to wear in school),but when you look at pupils writing,they can hardly string a sentence together without a spelling mistake.

I very much feel this too, as someone not from the UK now living in London. I come from a place with much higher equality and find the relentless competition in London stressful, and I feel like the longer we are here the more we are internalising it. In the beginning I felt above it but I feel it seeping into my pores. My solution is to escape back to my home country before my kids grow up.

It is awful and I totally agree with you. I think things seem a little better if you can live somewhere without the dreadful competitive entrance for schools business . Around here everything can become hierarchical from nurseries to swimming schools to football clubs to instrument teachers etc.it is very hard to avoid getting drawn in particularly if you are SAHM as the school gate can be brutal. Friends who live in areas without all the choice don't seem to have been under quite the same pressure.

@Allsorts1 Ok, so it's not just me then. It is different, right? Sadly, we cant move back, DH is British (but super laidback) and PIL are very elderly and need support. I have come to accept it, it's fine. But now trying to figure out how best to parent and make a life here. I love London, I really do but sometimes it still feels a bit alien.

I'm not immune to competitiveness and social status but I've always recognised it's driven by insecurity. As I've got older it's become a virtuous cycle - the more secure I am in who I am and how I validate myself, the less I care about how far up or down I am on someone else's hierarchy, and the happier I am the less I spend time thinking about it, and the less I care etc etc.

It's very hard to take people seriously when they outwardly put so much stock in such superficial things. It's like they're just exposing their insecurity to the world.

I think there may also be an element of not being “in the know” as part of the system so it feels like there is a lot to learn that is part of the carried knowledge of people living here. My family moved here when I was small and this is certainly my parents experience. Appreciate your husband is from the UK.

Try moving north: Manchester, Birmingham. You might find the attitude more relaxed

Is this a London thing? I don't even know what brand my kid's bike is, and I bought it!

Just ignore it! I grew up in London my parents didn't buy into this sort of crap and I was encouraged to do things and hobbies I enjoyed which was far more important. My parents installed a work for what you want ethic not you get x for free! I have a professional job (and moved well out of London for a better life balance!)

Ironically I had quite a few friends who went to private schools who mostly rebelled at 16 went to the local college and then did rubbish as weren't used to self motivating themselves to do the work or similar happened at uni. Just ignore it and let your children be children but with a good work ethos.

@ADialgaAteMyDog there are only two brands of kids bike - Frog Bikes and Isla ones. The only acceptable buggy is Babyzen YOYO. Winter jackets pretty much only from Polarn O'Pyret or maybe Boden. etc etc etc I dont care but thats just the only ones around us. It's a little bit liek painting by numbers. I dont care about the 'stuff' but when it comes to activities and tutors and school, it does slightly concern me. And dont even get me started on hobbies that help university applications ;-)

No idea if it's a London thing, I've not lived anywhere else in the Uk

If I were to start again I would not send my children’s to school here. I found that Americans kind of play this game too. Many of those coming from there or high flyers that went to university in America behave like this.

Lol definitely a London /your social circle thing. No one round here can afford those prices for a kids coat! I get my kid's coats at the supermarket and no one is interested in that stuff anyway!

It's not a generic London thing, there are normal people (e.g. me) in London who buy their kids coats from Asda etc
I do think it's a more West/North London thing though
Move to a more chill suburb, maybe?

😂 I just go on vinted and buy my DS stuff!
He does have some decent outdoor gear (bought second hand) but we live in rural Northern Scotland and his nursery is 75% outdoors all year round so it's needed!
Let them behave that way and spend the money if they wish on high spec stuff that they don't particularly need it's great for the rest of us for second hand market 😂

These days, the only people interested in the shit life that comes with trying to be a "professional" in London are the competitive types, even if they've subsequently realised that competitiveness wasn't good for them, they still had to pursue that competitive attitude throughout the getting to university, getting on the graduate programme etc.

The uncompetitive people didn't go down the same route at all, even if as bright or brighter and at the same uni's they would've pursued different routes.

So everyone in your bubble comes from a competitive mindset, the rest of the country doesn't care the same - and even other parts of London, hang around the "unfashionable" schools and you'll find lots of just as well paid and educated people with completely different viewpoints.

You've dipped one toe in a very small UK puddle. Don't mistake it for the ocean. We're all different.

In UK, there are multiple very different social groups at every level (social, educational, economic, cultural) and there is no obligation to stick like glue or conform .

Feel free to dive in and swim against the current.. Nobody will give a hoot.

DH and I moved country/culture for work and stuck out like sore thumbs through most of our social and professional lives. We don't compete; we don't do conventional status symbols, we were from a different culture and dialect from most local parents, neighbours, our work colleagues etc. Our young kids easily learned to straddle the gap and it has made them into flexible, adaptable, socially skilled people-managers in their adult careers. Just like us.
Just be yourself, and enjoy the difference.