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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

competitiveness and normal life

133 replies

ehuiph999 · 08/11/2021 12:09

I would like to preamble this by saying that I have only lived in the UK for a couple of years and am still trying to figure things out.

Spent the weekend socializing with friends and acquaintances - it struck me that so much of life seems so competitive. We're all parents with school-age kids and my impression is that most people around us are just constantly striving for more or the next thing or this but better. E.g. schools - not just any school but the right school, similar with houses, but also things like cars, clothes, hobbies. We're all professionals in London and yes, I do expect for my kids to say go to a good uni and have ok job, but I am also often just dont care about having to get the right thing - when my friends and people around me seem to care quite a lot about stuff. I just feel somewhat at odds, I guess.

I also feel unsure as to how best to navigate things for the kids. We are unlikely to leave the UK in the near future so they will grow up here. As any parent, I would obviously like them to have a nice life and I guess go to a top uni and get a good job, as I did. So do I have to instill this sense of competitiveness at a young age?

OP posts:
RedHelenB · 10/11/2021 06:22

[quote ehuiph999]@ADialgaAteMyDog there are only two brands of kids bike - Frog Bikes and Isla ones. The only acceptable buggy is Babyzen YOYO. Winter jackets pretty much only from Polarn O'Pyret or maybe Boden. etc etc etc I dont care but thats just the only ones around us. It's a little bit liek painting by numbers. I dont care about the 'stuff' but when it comes to activities and tutors and school, it does slightly concern me. And dont even get me started on hobbies that help university applications ;-)

No idea if it's a London thing, I've not lived anywhere else in the Uk[/quote]
You need to move. Honestly, where I live no one is bothered about schools, I only know a few parents who got tutors ( and that was for maths GCSEif it looked like they wouldn't get a 4 so just a year's worth) My friends kids who were able and worked consistently all got to uni, mostly Russell group if that's what they wanted but also had fun. And bikes come from Halfords.

RedHelenB · 10/11/2021 06:29

@Hardbackwriter

DofE is a weird one to pick on - it's non-competitive and supposed to be widely accessible.

I used to be an academic and did admissions and can confirm that universities only give the slightest toss about this stuff if you can link it cogently to your studies (and not much then). But deciding it's therefore a total waste of time seems to me to be the same attitude as doing these things only because you think they will get you into university. DofE definitely isn't a ticket to the Russell group but that doesn't make it redundant.

My d's used her experience of D of E for her dental applications and got 3 out of 4 interviews. Again, where I live kids do it for fun, the dreaded expedition and the fact that they are doing some of the parts anyway like driving lessons for their skill.
Tabbypawpaw · 10/11/2021 06:58

I think it’s where you live OP. I’m on the other side of London in a much less nicer part (still nice but not eat London nice) and I don’t recognise this at all. My eldest is in year two and I don’t know any children having private tutoring and music lessons and stuff not suitable for their age - many do swimming lessons or gymnastics in a club after school but it’s fairly normal.

workwoes123 · 10/11/2021 08:06

I don’t think it’s a London thing, it’s a human thing. We are hardwired to be aware of our own and other peoples status within society and to seek to maintain or improve our own status within whichever milieu we live - whether that’s a leafy London suburb, a rural farming community in the north of Scotland or an anonymous suburban belt outside a small city. Several posters talk about “making it” which translates as maintaining or increasing one’s status - and less widely acknowledged is there the great anxiety that comes with the possibility of ‘not’ making it.

Read Alain de Botton’s Status Anxiety to begin with. That will give you a better understanding of the people around you are behaving as they do. Then try The Meritocracy Trap, another great read about status anxiety in an elitist society (which most are).

Human behaviour is fascinating. I have no doubt Op that your home country has just as many and diverse ways of sorting out who’s “making it” and who isn’t - it’s just that the indicators and the social norms in London / U.K. at different to the ones you know and they seem bizarre atm.

altiara · 10/11/2021 09:09

I would try and instil a sense of drive rather than competitiveness, pride in doing something well rather than doing a bad job and also being able to finish a job eg homework, unpacking the dishwasher, tying their shoelaces, getting dressed…

Hobbies - swimming, musical instrument, Cubs. Other sports/dance/school clubs. This is what my DC did. Then they dropped their clubs down as their interests changed. There is a limit to the number of children that can represent the county, so most children do a sport as a hobby and they enjoy it rather than adding it to their CV for university.
Can’t really tell how old your kids are, assumed small as you were talking about prams.

Have to say never heard of those brands! Apart from Boden. Once your DC are at secondary school, you really don’t mix with other parents much unless you’re friends. Primary age, you’re pushed together more and maybe you just have nothing in common with these other parents do you end up talking only about the DC (so they sound like they’re bragging but ‘could’ be fact).

Think you need to find different people to talk to.

dustofneptune · 10/11/2021 09:32

To be honest, OP - I don't think there is a 100% right answer. You have to follow your own values.

You could try to sign them up for all the "right" (productive, etc.) hobbies with the intention of this benefiting their future university applications, and so on - then find that they have internalised issues with perfectionism, anxiety, materialism, being unable to just relax, etc.

You could try to celebrate their childhoods, promote kindness and selflessness and empathy and fun and exploration - and then find that they are resentful later in life for not being pushed harder.

Or, on the flipside, you could do either thing and find that they grow up grateful, well-adjusted, and successful (in whatever measure of success is important for them).

In my opinion, the most important thing is to just love them, listen to them, and support them in whatever they want to do. To teach them to be kind, resilient, well-rounded humans.

As for the competitiveness of London/UK, I entirely relate. I live in a relatively affluent area of another city, and I'm surrounded by people who are very invested in money, career, fancy home, fancy car, travel, etc. I cannot stand it. I choose to opt out as much as possible.

mrsfixit · 10/11/2021 09:52

Hi OP. I suspect I don’t live far away from you Grin. I’m an ‘immigrant’ too, but have lived here 20 years. My kids are all teens and we have survived, so here’s my retrospective perspective!

What feeds the hyped up vibe in these parts is that you happen to be surrounded by the top independent schools in the country. Within a few square miles you have St Paul’s (Girls and Boys, Godolphin and Latymer, Latymer Upper, etc. Then there’s Hampton and LEH they can get the coaches out to. There’s Kings in Wimbledon and the GSDT schools such as Putney High or Wimbledon High, not forgetting Francis Holland Sloane Square and NLCS, CLGS, CLBS and Westminster if you’re prepared to travel a few miles north or east. Look at the Best Schools Guide and you will see that many (most)? of the schools listed in the top 20 are local to you.

Competition for these schools at 7+, 8+ or 11+ is ferocious and stressful for all concerned. Children are sitting at least 5 schools each (so five different sets of exams / interviews). Some are sitting up to ten schools. Nowhere else in the U.K. carries on like this - not even remotely. The reason some parents may want their children to have certain music grades or ‘extra curricular achievements’ is that it can help with school entry - ie they have more to talk about in the interviews.

Some schools have 15 applicants for every place. Even the so-called ‘second tier’ schools are more competitive than anything in other areas if the country because everything is so ramped up.

So it depends what you’re looking at. If you’re thinking independent school, it’s naive to think they can just waltz in, to be perfectly honest. If applying from a state primary, you will need to be proactive in terms of helping them with exam technique etc.

As for bikes and coats or whatever, I wouldn’t get involved in any of that. It’s irrelevant.

Re- music grades. Two of mine were quite musical but they didn’t do the all the grades systematically through school. I think they did Grade 1 - then they just did the lessons through school and then did Grade 8 just before they left. It does carry UCAS points. Some unis are more interested in this kind of thing than others. But the main point is, you don’t need to work systematically through all the grades. They do need Grade 5 music theory to proceed higher with singing / instrument grades - but rather than banging away at that when they’re young, mine did Grade 5 theory from scratch at school in less than a term in about Year 9 or 10.

There are some scary ‘sports mums’ (not to mention the dads), but your kids are either into this or they’re not, Just be led by them.

It does seem crazy - and that’s because it is crazy, frankly. But on the plus side, these kids won’t be phased by competition when they get to uni and they’re up against the entire world because to them it’s just normal. Being told you’re a genius in a low-performing school or in a less populated / competitive area can also mean that these children find they have an unrealistic sense of self and struggle when competition hits at uni or in later life.

pkim123 · 28/03/2022 20:50

@ehuiph999

I would like to preamble this by saying that I have only lived in the UK for a couple of years and am still trying to figure things out.

Spent the weekend socializing with friends and acquaintances - it struck me that so much of life seems so competitive. We're all parents with school-age kids and my impression is that most people around us are just constantly striving for more or the next thing or this but better. E.g. schools - not just any school but the right school, similar with houses, but also things like cars, clothes, hobbies. We're all professionals in London and yes, I do expect for my kids to say go to a good uni and have ok job, but I am also often just dont care about having to get the right thing - when my friends and people around me seem to care quite a lot about stuff. I just feel somewhat at odds, I guess.

I also feel unsure as to how best to navigate things for the kids. We are unlikely to leave the UK in the near future so they will grow up here. As any parent, I would obviously like them to have a nice life and I guess go to a top uni and get a good job, as I did. So do I have to instill this sense of competitiveness at a young age?

Yes, you do need to make them competitive. Life is competitive, and not just for humans. Nature is competitive. The best schools are competitive, the best universities, the best jobs, etc. But look, it's not for everybody. Some just like to chillax, and that's cool too. Have fun
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