To despise being called ‘cis’?

[Ostryga]

I’m not ‘cis’. I’m not ‘cisgendered’. I’m literally a woman. I’ve just read a guardian article that calls women seeking IVF cisgendered.

Why????

I’d guess that, as cis is the antonym of trans, ‘cis woman’ and ‘trans woman’ instead of ‘woman’ and ‘trans woman’ somehow seems fairer? Or less othering of the trans woman?

It’s only an antonym in chemistry terms it has been co-opted.

I wonder why we’ve managed since time immemorial to distinguish between men and women perfectly adequately without needing a prefix but now all of a sudden it’s needed.

If a person is not identified as a transwoman or transman then they are a woman or a man. Whether they are heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual is another question entirely.

I am a woman. Human adult female. I do not have a "gender" and reject the whole concept, which is based on stereotypes.

Of all topics, human reproduction whether via intercourse, IVF or another means involves a male person and a female person.

'Heterosexual' has a very specific meaning ie opposite sex attracted.

Gender identity doesn't come into the process of conception, gestation and reproduction. Sex obviously does.

Maybe there are three categories - trans women, cis women, and women who identify as being of the female sex but who think gender is irrelevant to them and bordering on an offensive stereotype.

Yanbu
“Cis” isn’t real, gender isn’t real either. I’m not a believer in gender identity ideology so I don’t use its language.

They use the term cisgendered heterosexual to delineate the very specific subset of people covered by those particular guidelines, for the very reason that just saying ‘heterosexual’ isn’t specific enough when it comes to gender-based definitions of sexuality.

I believe a trans man has given birth literally once in the U.K. The idea that we need specification whether this couple is cis or not is somewhat ludicrous.

@Ostryga

I find being called cis incredibly offensive, It enrages me and I’m not 100% sure why yet.

It’s just so unnecessary. The only word needed for my sex is woman. I’m happy to call anyone whatever they want or need. But why am I suddenly gaining a new term for my sex without my consent 😳

I can't speak for you of course, but I can tell you why I find it offensive and enraging.

It assumes that I, as a female person, share some undefined and undetectable womany sameness with trans women that supercedes our biological differences to make us both "women".

As I do not believe myself to be any different to a male person other than my body, it is an incorrect and offensive assumption.

To be very clear here, I don't think "I'm no different to a male person apart from my body" because I somehow mystically am a male person apart from my body, I just think the only differences between male and female people (or "men" and "women" as the words used to be) are either directly biological or where society treats us differently because of our bodies.

The inescapable fact is that there is no definition of woman that can include both me, who recognises herself as a woman only to the degree it is (or was) the name for my physical sex, and a trans woman because by definition she is not of my sex.

So as soon as someone calls me "cis", what they actually saying is that in their eyes I am not a woman because given the choice of using a definition of woman that includes male people or one that includes me, they have decided that males are more important.

Now they may not realise that is what they are doing. Indeed, I'm sure very few of them do. But I am intelligent, and logical, and I see it for what it is even if they do not.

Perhaps if one of the people imposing the label "ciswoman" on to me were able to define, or even simply describe, this womany quality so that I can recognise in myself I would understand and accept it, but as yet all we get is handwavy double-think bollocks that relies on me identifying as a woman under the original biological definition in the background to give a baseline group of "women" that trans women can identify into, while simultaneously not allowing that definition to be openly admitted because to do so would unavoidably exclude trans women.

And of course, as I've said so many times before, I wouldn't even mind being undefined as a woman if all this making woman into a mixed sex group was done alongside examining and where necessary preserving the female-only provisions that we already had. But it isn't. And whether I call myself a woman or not, I am female and I still bloody need them!

I think we need to forget about gender and just focus on sex. You’re either XX or XY (or the extremely small minority of people who are XXY) and just leave it at that. You either go to XX prison or XY prison. For crime stats you’re either XX or XY. It’s the only scientific way of doing it that can’t be messed about with by changing trends and fashions.

I just think the only differences between male and female people (or "men" and "women" as the words used to be) are either directly biological or where society treats us differently because of our bodies.

Agreed

Don't accept it under any circumstances. The only way to stop this nonsense is to refuse to comply and be militant about it. A few loud mouthed busy bodies should not get to affect your life.

It doesn't bother me at all.

When I talk about women I include trans women in that. If I need to differentiate for any reason I use trans or cis irl.

If someone was offended by either trans or cis I wouldn't use it.

Not a big deal to me at all.

@Newwallpaint

Couldn't care less tbh.

Isn't there a whole section of the site for topics like this?

Yes, newwallpaint, there is. And this thread is already there: AIBU, the board for asking if one is being unreasonable, is the only board where voting can be enabled.

Therefore, you'll find all kinds of topics here which cover topics which also could be on a specific subject board. Just looking at the top AIBU posts right now, there's one about pets, one about recipes, one about fashion/style, one about relationships, one about travel. one about COVID. I don't see a single one that COULDN'T be on another board... IF the OP hadn't wanted to ask about being unreasonable and to get feedback in the form of a vote.

Have you posted on all of those other threads too, or is there something unique in your opinion about discussions of women's rights that means they should be sidelined, hidden, or even silenced??

The suffragettes must be turning in their graves. We can vote but our safe spaces are being eroded, men can use women's toilets and changing rooms without censure and now even the noun that has described us since time began is being taken from us.

Why isn't anyone fighting this?

Why are we meekly accepting it?

Anyone who calls me ‘cis’ will be getting the sharp end of my tongue. Fortunately it hasn’t happened yet but if it does they’d better watch out 😤

@Frenchfancy

Yanbu. I don't know why everyone bends backwards not to not offend and then go on to offend a huge percentage of women.

Nothing new French - just traditional misogyny in a modern guise.

Today I read that marks and Spencer’s have introduced new name badges with pronouns along with the name.
Looks like I need to find somewhere else to buy my pants as I refuse to give my money to businesses that are buying into all this crap.

If they find it so off putting to be told they have breasts and are so wedded to the idea of being men, one does wonder why they became pregnant in the first place?

This totally gets my goat as well.

I have loads of sympathy for trans people of the "truscum" type who genuinely feel their lives are intolerable if they can't live lives as close as possible to the opposite sex.

I have none at all for people who claim to be "male" and yet still want the female "privilege" of giving birth, thus requiring the rest of the world to adopt nonsensical lies that male people can somehow get pregnant.

It reminds me of some religious people who want to be able to pigeonhole everyone according to their religion, and insist that atheism is a religion because they can't have people falling outside the categorisation!

@Suspiciousmind20

uhohspaghettiohh

Chest feeding? What is that? Why change it? A chest can’t feed a child. Only a breast. Although certain psychotropic drugs can make men lactate

Men have breasts. Men get breast cancer. It fucks me right off, chestfeeding can fuck off.

@MrsGeralt

There's a whole topic available for this kind of stuff.

Yes exactly and I have it blocked for a reason. This is so tedious.

www.cancer.org/cancer/breast-cancer-in-men.html

@Poetrypatty

You said that instead of ‘people with wombs’ you could either say ‘women’ (biological women who identify as women) or ‘trans men’ (people born female who identify as men).

So what about people born as women but who identify neither as men or women. What do you want to call them, if you don’t agree with ‘people with wombs’?

The point you are failing to grasp so spectacularly, is that there are many different people, with many different body parts and many different ways to combine them.

As for how often you hear about cis men v cis women - well this is a website aimed at women, so it’s not that surprising, is it? I would assume that elsewhere on the vast internet, there are similar conversations happening about cis men v men.

Sorry. To clarify. Chestfeefing fucks me off as the body part "breast" is also part of male anatomy so why rename it ?

@Ionlydomassiveones

Female biology, and the functions thereof, is not a ‘privilege’. It’s a source of oppression and vulnerability as recognised by the Equality Act.

How misogynist, ludicrous and absurd does an ideology have to get where you have females, chastising other females for flaunting the ‘privilege’ of simply being born female? We can’t ‘identify’ out of rape, sexual harassment, sexual assault, menstural issues, birthing issues, DV, FGM, lower pay, lack of freedom from harassment on the streets, domestic slavery etc etc. These are WOMEN suffering. Because of their biology and physiology. It’s not a fucking privilege.

And it’s not about trans. It’s about recognising that women are by far, in terms of numbers, the more oppressed group, so it’s women we should be protecting and prioritising in any fundamental clash of rights.

This. We all must keep saying this