To despise being called ‘cis’?

[Ostryga]

I’m not ‘cis’. I’m not ‘cisgendered’. I’m literally a woman. I’ve just read a guardian article that calls women seeking IVF cisgendered.

Why????

Can't say I care. It's not saying I'm not a woman, it's saying I'm the gender I was assigned at birth. It's woman with more context. I will use woman, but I don't care if others call me cis because let's face it, it's not something that comes up a lot IRL. It's mostly online.

The more you "other" trans people and say they aren't women, the more you make them different, the more you shape
he way society sees them

Is calling them trans othering? Or just saying they aren't women? Why is there a difference there?

Men who identify as women ARE different. They just are. They are biologically male. Nothing can change that.

We can be polite and accommodating, and respect their new names and pronouns and leave their way of dressing unremarked upon. We can include them in our work, social and personal lives. We can ensure they are offered the same services, rights and treatment as anyone else.

Why do we HAVE to deny reality and confirm a fantasy for them to be kept safe? There comes a point, a line in the sand, where we just say no.that line for me is saying that a man who identifies as a woman IS a women. Because they are not.

"Cis" is just a technical term. It's someone
whose identity and assignation matches
their biological sex

This does not describe me. This is why I don't want to be called cis. I don't have a "womenly identity" I wasn't "assigned" a "gender identity" at birth. I was born in the eighties to 2 of the least gender-conforming people, and brought up practically feral in a sea of brown and orange corduroy by SAHD.

YANBU, I have long thought this whole cis woman business came about because some transwomen didn't like the 'trans' part, they want to be thought of as a description of woman and in order to do that women needed to have a descriptor too.

Women don't need one, never have, never will. I'm not a subset of my own sex. I'm not an affirmation of feminine stereotypes because I was born female.

Born a human female and grow up = woman. I'm not playing along with anyone denying their own reality because it makes them feel bad. They need to do the work and accept who they are, but they would rather take the easy road and use women as validation tools and human shields. And scream witch at any woman who says no (this actually happened btw). But that's male privilege for you I guess, take over all that women have worked bloody hard for instead getting off their arses 🙄

I'm surprised this hasn't been moved over to the naughty corner yet!

"No-one is brought up intersex or genderless; even though 2% of the population is neither biologically male or female."

Well that one is wrong for a start. Those with disorders of sexual development, even if they don't have the normal combination of sex chromosomes, are all biologically either male or female. What you are doing here is confusing the appearance of genitals with a person's genetic sex.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5866176/
Table 1

Classification of Disorders of Sex Development Associated with Ambiguous Genitalia
XX, DSD
 Androgen-induced
 Virilizing Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasias
 Placental Aromatase Deficiency
 Glucocorticoid Receptor Mutation
 Maternal androgen secreting Tumor
 Virilizing luteoma of Pregnancy
 Androgen Exposure (Norethindrone, Ethisterone, Norethynodrel,
 Medroxyprogesterone, Danazol)
 Ovotesticular Disorders
XY DSD
 Impaired Testosterone Synthesis
 Leydig cell agenesis
 LH/HCG receptor (LHCGR) mutations
 Congenital lipoid adrenal hyperplasia (StAR)
 Cholesterol side chain cleavage mutations (CYP11A1)
 3β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 2 (HSD3B2) mutations
 17α-hydroxylase/17,20 lyase (CYP17A1) mutations
 P450 oxidoreductase (POR) mutations
 Smith-Lemli-Opitz (DHCR7) mutations
 17β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 3 (HSD17B3) mutations
 5α-reductase type 2 (SRD5A2) mutations
 Cytochrome b5 (CYB5A)
 3α- hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase deficiency (AKR1C2 and AKR1C3)
 Denys-Drash syndrome (WT1)
Sex Chromosome DSD
 Turner Syndrome
 Klinefelter Syndrome
 Mosaicism, e.g. 45,X/46,XY
 Triple XXX Syndrome
 XXYY Syndrome
XX or XY Disorder of Gonadal Development
 Complete gonadal dysgenesis
 Partial gonadal dysgenesis Gonadal regression
 Ovotesticular DSD
XY Persistent Mullerian Duct Syndrome
 Low AMH (AMH)
 Normal or High AMH (AMHR2)
Malformation Syndrome
 CHARGE syndrome
 Hand-foot-genital syndrome
 MRKH Syndrome
 MURCS Association
 McKusick-Kaufman Syndrome
 Aphallia
 Cloacal/Bladder Exstrophy
 Isolated Hypospadias
 Penoscrotal Transposition

But back to the CIS issue. It's another neologism that's only used to back up a political point. Would you refer to someone as "Cis Black" Which, given the well publicised instances of people identifying as black even though they are white, should be just as relevant to use? And yet it's offensive isn't it? Why is that do you think?

I am a woman. I don't need further definition. The only good thing about people using the term 'cis' is that it immediately helpfully identifies them as virture-signalling, self absorbed dullards - and I can quickly swerve them.

You have misunderstood the meaning of "cis"

All it means is that you you were born a
woman and you still are a woman, and are happy with that.

What if you're not happy with that? What if you'd rather not have been subject the male gaze since forever, and objectified, and judged on your appearance, and gone through puberty hating your body because the boys at school all read FHM and you didn't look like the pictures? What if you didn't feel pressure to remove all your naturally occuring body hair just to be able to dress appropriately for the weather when it's hot, or go swimming? What if you hate not being physically strong enough to keep yourself safe when groped and handled in busy places, what if you hate that it's you not your boyfriend that gets flashed when on holiday. What if periods have crippled you since they started in your teens? If you've had to live with anaemia, fainting, pain so bad you see black every single month of your adult life and yet still take your exams, participate in sports, care for small children, go to work while the medical profession appears disinterested at best and unkind at worst? What if you've had to have treatment on your cervix, what if you've had to go through the agony of infertility and pregnancy loss, the complete nightmare of hormonal contraception, of nearly dying from ectopic pregnancy (while your boss bullies you to get back to work because it was 'only a miscarriage')? What if all your male friends earn X3 what you do? Even though you have better qualifications and work like a dog?

What if I'm not happy about being a woman but a woman is what I am?!

I AM NOT CIS

All it means is that you you were born a woman and you still are a woman, and are happy with that.

I am happy I’m a woman but I don’t need or want the extra word.

I am extremely not happy being a woman. There don't seem to be any other options for me, though.

What is a female ‘gender identity’ that is so clear someone feels they can become it?

Like a Barbie? Like Bodicea? Like Lucretia Borgia? A Taliban woman ? A wife who is said ‘to wear the trousers’? A Stepford wife? A CEO with 5 children? A builder doing lime plastering like some on mumsnet?…….. The ways women ( biological) express their being are endless. The ways women feel about their lives and bodies are myriad.

There is no way ‘to feel like a woman’. There is no singular identity.

Meanwhile, there is no physical way of becoming one either.

There must be something that is achieved by being transgender or people wouldn’t want to do it, but again there must be many different reasons and outcomes. It would be interesting to know what people are trying to leave behind by the change because what they seem to hope to gain can only be a fantasy.

What can never be achieved is changing sex except superficially.

I'm objecting to people's desire to repurpose language to support the fallacy that someone can be both male and giving birth. Biologically that's nonsense, let's not pretend otherwise.

///: Absolutely this

@Scoutingformygirls

"Cis" is just a technical term. It's someone whose identity and assignation matches their biological sex

This does not describe me. This is why I don't want to be called cis. I don't have a "womenly identity" I wasn't "assigned" a "gender identity" at birth. I was born in the eighties to 2 of the least gender-conforming people, and brought up practically feral in a sea of brown and orange corduroy by SAHD.

This has won the internet for me today "a sea of brown and orange corduroy" 😁

That was meant to be a grin not a grimace!

@BiLuminous

Can't say I care. It's not saying I'm not a woman, it's saying I'm the gender I was assigned at birth. It's woman with more context. I will use woman, but I don't care if others call me cis because let's face it, it's not something that comes up a lot IRL. It's mostly online.

If gender is a sense of self, how can a doctor assign it to a baby at birth?

I don't get the use of cis. I just see myself as a woman, but if a trans person wants to call me a cisgendered person from their own perspective I won't lose sleep over it, but if it becomes common place in other circumstances I don't think I would be happy about it as I haven't been asked what my own preferences are.

It gives me the itchy foot.

I find it hugely offensive, I am a female / woman I have the XY DNA, a vagina, ovaries, breaststroke. Just call me a fucking woman.

What type of world do we live in where someone with a penis can call themselves a woman, not a trans woman, just a woman. But me as an actual female with a vagina can't. I'm apparently a cis woman.

What a load of shite!!!

@Blueskip - you can see it can't you? Any pics of my childhood (there aren't many, my DPs were not of the influencer tribe) look like they're printed in sepia!! Any memories appear sort of over exposed because of the orange and brown swirls and lines. Happy days!

"a sea of brown and orange corduroy"

And some of it in paisley?

That then makes me wonder if I’m holding on to the power (a bit like men do when challenged on misogyny or racists do when challenged eg All lives matter). This has given me lots of food for thought.

Do you really think women as a class have more power than this group of male people?

You are certainly not the only one OP.

[quote thatonehasalittlecar]@Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet

@YetAnotherSpartacus

You believe that the only differences between the sexes are physical. I believe that there are emotional / mental differences too; my worldview is not mechanistic.

What we can agree on is that harmful stereotypes need to be abolished, so I’m off to work on that in my own limited way.[/quote]
What emotional/mental differences do you mean? And are these things I, as a woman, have in common with every single transwoman on the planet, but don't have in common with any males?

You believe that the only differences between the sexes are physical. I believe that there are emotional / mental differences too; my worldview is not mechanistic.

What emotional/mental difference do you consider male and female apple trees to have?

@BiLuminous

Can't say I care. It's not saying I'm not a woman, it's saying I'm the gender I was assigned at birth. It's woman with more context. I will use woman, but I don't care if others call me cis because let's face it, it's not something that comes up a lot IRL. It's mostly online.

You're not "assigned a gender at birth". Your sex, which is determined at time of conception, is observed and noted.

@YetAnotherSpartacus -yes! Oversized paisley in browns and creams in a very particular fabric that was given to static sparks...