To despise being called ‘cis’?

[Ostryga]

I’m not ‘cis’. I’m not ‘cisgendered’. I’m literally a woman. I’ve just read a guardian article that calls women seeking IVF cisgendered.

Why????

legally, physically, hormonally, societally (etc) women, I wonder what it is that makes them not really women?

What defines sex is chromosomal makeup.

What does being 'physically' a woman actually mean? That doesn't override what's happening at a chromosomal level. Equally hormonally.

Societally is too vague to have any meaning and legally is open to change and interpretation.

You cannot at a biological level change sex. Let's stop pretending you can.

@VladmirsPoutine

I do think the trans community get a lot of hate for no other reason than being the newest whipping boy on the block. That said I agree I can't stand the term 'cis'.

I really don't agree. I think the problem is that they are trying to redefine words that we use to describe ourselves, our bodies, our sexuality and they are calling us bigots for objecting. The hate is thrown at women who simply want to defend our selves and our rights. Language matters. No other group have ever demanded that we redefine our language to suit them.

Cis isn't just a word, it's a tool to control women.

Sorry I didn't realise I was required to be helpful.

You aren't.

But if you state you believe in gender, but can't actually define what it it, surely you can see that's an unconvincing position to hold?

@RicherThanYew

Even in the context of that article the prefix cis is unnecessary. The article states that the couple who feel discriminated against are a lesbian couple, you can't be lesbians if one of you owns a penis.

Um ...

According to the people who brought you 'cis'; yes you can.

YANBU, OP. Cis is bullshit, I do not accept it, I don't have a 'gender identity', I don't buy into this ideology and I would strenuously resist anyone applying that label to me.

Woman. That's it.

The Colleen Rooney/Rebekah Vardy saga is soooooo much more interesting than this! 😃

It's an absolute bag of shite. I refuse to be referred to as cis. I am an adult human female. I am a woman. Transwomen are transwomen. They are not women.

Blackandwhitehorse

@Suspiciousmind20bi agree it is good to challenge your gut feeling, (and that’s not bowing down to the man)

I would also just say though, it’s worth looking into the gender ideology as it has some elements of a religion in my opinion. A lot of it doesn’t add up but people are being pushed into going along with it under the guise of inclusivity. But fairness, truth and safeguarding for me, outweigh inclusion at any cost.

Thanks. I’m really interested to think about this issue from all angles. Fairness, truth and safeguarding are paramount. I agree.

I guess it’s how to continue to build and protect women’s rights and safety whilst also not marginalising a different group of people.

I think I’m going to be thinking a lot more about this in the next few days.

Thank you for engaging in a considered way and not just taking a pop at me.

So if someone feels uncomfortable labelling their breasts as breasts (presumably because of the feminine associations?) and prefers to be less specific by referring to their chest, crack on. It’s not wrong to say ‘chest feeding’

If this person is so uncomfortable with the existence of their breasts as manifestation of their female anatomy, one really wonders why they would become pregnant in the first place.

TheKeatingFive I didn't say I couldn't, I'm just saying I won't. I have no desire to get into an argument.

I didn't say I couldn't, I'm just saying I won't.

But why not? I'm not looking for an argument, I'm trying to understand how you define gender.

The main problem I have with being referred to as a 'cis woman' is that I take issue with being made a subset of my own sex, in order to allow in people who are not of my sex.

And also 'cis' implies that you accept the stereotypes associated with your sex (ie. Your 'gender'.

It's total bollocks.

Totally agree as well with the point that these days everyone is so careful not to offend, will tie themselves in knots to ensure they are not upsetting anyone. Apart from women it seems. We can just fuck off.

I don't like cis. And I don't like the obsession with identity.

I don't have a gender identity. I just don't. I'm just me. I know I'm a woman because of my body and how I've been treated by others. I have no innate sense of 'woman'.

And while we're at it I also don't identify as bi. It's just what I am.

And funnily enough the people who make the most blatant assumptions about others are the ones who shout loudest about not assuming sexuality/ gender etc. Winds me up no end.

@Voice0fReason

‘Heterosexual’ can be a gender-based term, so might refer to non-bio man & bio woman, or non-bio woman & bio man, or bio man & bio woman or non-bio man & non-bio woman.

So cisgendered is actually pretty useful as a clarification.

I agree that perhaps cisgendered would also be helpful for describing the lesbian couple, although the context made it clear in this case, given what they are fighting for (ie not having to go through expensive interventions before qualifying for IVF).

TreXX

You find which bit hard to believe?

@Voice0fReason I completely agree with you.

The activists, most of whom are not trans, have massively over reached.

There’s a fair few trans women like Rose of Dawn that also stand against this redefining of language and get hate from all the activists for doing so.

If this much energy had been put into campaigning for third spaces for trans people then there wouldn’t be any problem.

TheKeatingFive The thing is, I don't think you're looking for an argument either. You want me to tell you what I believe so you can tell me I'm wrong. I don't want to engage. Thanks anyway.

You want me to tell you what I believe so you can tell me I'm wrong. I don't want to engage. Thanks anyway.

Ok, so my conclusion is you can't define it 🤷‍♀️

Either you have two X-chromosomes or you have an X and a Y. Somebody whose chromosomes differ from their preferred gender can alter their name, their appearance, behaviour, mannerisms and way of life, but they can't change what is inside their DNA.

That is all there is to it, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

TheKeatingFive OK then.

‘Heterosexual’ can be a gender-based term, so might refer to non-bio man & bio woman, or non-bio woman & bio man, or bio man & bio woman or non-bio man & non-bio woman.

Um, heterosexual means people of the opposite sex. Homosexual means of the same sex. It's sexual orientation. That's what those words mean.

@ShirleyPhallus

Yes, I agree. I really fundamentally disagree being labelled as the opposite to a trans person. There is a word that means “not trans woman”. That word is “woman”.

Funny how everyone is asked to respect pronouns / TWAW but the same respect isn’t given to stopping using the word cis

💯

@Witchcraftandhokum

TheKeatingFive The thing is, I don't think you're looking for an argument either. You want me to tell you what I believe so you can tell me I'm wrong. I don't want to engage. Thanks anyway.

Why does this always happen as soon as someone is asked a 'difficult' question on these threads?

“There's woman and transwoman. Cis is not required.”

⬆️ This ☝️

@TheViewFromTheCheapSeats

What fucks me of is I am a woman. A woman, who like many women, doesn’t neatly fit into the daft ‘cis ’ stereotype of a woman. I’m still a bloody woman though, 100% unquestionably so. My interests and dress, if we are making a binary choice, often fit better the ‘male’ stereotypes out there. I’m not male in anyway though. I am a variety of woman. I object though being linked to a narrow and often vapid view of what a woman must be like.

This. If I have a short hair, don't even own makeup, and prefer men's clothing for comfort and practicality, that doesn't mean I'm a man. I'm not sure which is worse about the standard trans position here: the belief that a man who wears makeup and dresses is transformed into a woman by doing so, or the belief that a woman who does neither of those things isn't actually a woman.

Thefsrtingsofaofdenmarkstreet Why do people seem to think others are beholden to answer their questions. I've said repeatedly I wasn't looking for an argument.