The Labour Party are unelectable. Can they turn it around? What would they need to do to gain your trust?

[flashbac]

After another week of corrupt shenanigans from the Tories (last week was allowing literal shit pumping into watercourses, this week attempting to set aside a finding of dodgy dealings) we would still be stuck with them if there was a snap election tomorrow.

The Labour brand has become far too toxic. Keir is next to useless and all of them listen to the wrong people instead of instinctively knowing what to fight for. If they can turn it around and rebuild trust it won't be a quick or easy job. They have lost all credibility.

What do they need to do to rebuild trust or is it too late?

For me they need to start with the following:

• Get a leader with charisma and strong values surrounding fairness. The current one just doesn't cut it.
• know wtf a woman is. Stop trying to erase natal women as a sex class.

What's on your wishlist for a credible alternative to the Tories?

Deal with the GRA issue. That's more or less it. Disappointed in Keir.

The vociferous online Labour voters who seem to believe that purely because they didn't vote Tory, or Brexit renders them some kind of moral and intellectual colossi, and therefore justified in castigating swathes of voters who did otherwise, end of, is surely problematic? Though they won't hear it.

Yes JoanW, but until people stop the tribal us v them mentality, abolish this dire adversarial system and learn to think for the collective, that's all we are going to get.

How far down are they going to let Boris drag us, that's what I want to know.

@ElectAClownLiveInACircus

No, I wasn't saying Labour voters were stupid. I was talking about the people who DID vote for Boris Johnson and his government and DID lead to him winning. They DID vote for someone who likened Muslim women to pillar boxes and they DID vote for someone who likened to the climate crisis to being on the losing side at half time in a football match. It was not me who made these analogies and it was not me who voted for the person who did. But 50% of the population DID.

Yet labour can't tell the difference between males and females....bizarre isn't it..

Something so fundamental as biological sex. Do you not think that the statements regarding this coming from Labour have turned women away?

That women and men can straight up look in to the camera and say males are also women and must be afforded womens rights with a straight face.

What do you say to that to all us stupid females?

This is a very interesting article on Labour’s problems from today’s Guardian. It’s by Rob Ford, professor of politics at Manchester Uni.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/07/if-labour-cant-beat-the-tories-polarising-game-it-should-build-bridges-instead

Interesting Libertaire but I think the author's analys is inaccurate.

Trying to bridge chasms and please everyone is a votes-drainer because the leader just ends up looking clueless and indecisive, as in Corbyn on Brexit. He had no clear message, people were confused, and we all know what the result of that was.

KS may be "less divisive" but as he doesn't even know what his "case" is, and as we are constantly hearing about party infighting, he's just wasting time.

Nor does the author mention PR. Campaigning hard for electoral reform and eliminating the deficit caused by fptp, which is hopelessly skewed in the Tories' favour, would be a far more efficient way of winning votes. Again KS is nowhere on that.

Church you keep saying how the whole system has got to change. How do you plan to achieve that?

I hope they keep up their TWAW shit. So the Conservatives stay in power. I pay enough tax as it is.

I posted a few ideas upthread, Andante and on other threads a few months ago, wondering why far more people don't lobby their MPs demanding they take a clear stance on electoral reform and that they hold Boris to account. I think the mn consensus at the time was basically "there's Covid, we have more important things to think about", and that joining pressure groups was a waste of time (whereas complaining on here is really productive...)

Meanwhile the Tories have redefined incompetence, sunk to new moral lows and are gaining speed in their descent into total corruption.

What's next I wonder, mandatory payslip deductions to fund Tory MPs' house refurbs?

It's about collective action, not individual action. Other people have to care enough to do something. My opinion counts for nothing by itself.

If your lawyer/doctor/other professional was performing badly most people would tell them so, complain, expect redress and possibly report them. When their elected representative performs badly, most people seem to believe their only option is to put up and shut up.

Every MP's inbox and twitter feed should be jammed to overflowing with demands for Boris and Keir to get the fuck out. Now, not the next GE. They are not up to the job.

I read somewhere once that elections are lost not won. And that kinda makes sense to me. Labour will win when voters want a change (for whatever reason) but I do think Labour are always going to be the party that was voted in cos the natural party of government needed to step down to regroup etc ...

And I suspect we are heading for a new record of a party in government for 19years. I think that the labour dithering on Brexit was a vote killer. I think they were between a rock and a hard place (kinda) but they lost votes with their stance. Remember Corbyn won a greater share of votes in 2017 than Brown/Blair/Milliband but it all went to shite in 2019 with the Brexit dithering. And in 2017 they got the second biggest swing ever. The highest being the swing to Atlee.

Also Corbyn's Labour Party's big swing in 2017 was against Theresa May's leadership.

Johnson rightly gambled he could claw much of that back in 2019.

He simplified the message - infuriatingly so to many millions, but it worked given bloody FPTP.

Every MP's inbox and twitter feed should be jammed to overflowing with demands for Boris and Keir to get the fuck out. Now, not the next GE. They are not up to the job.

They sort of are though.

They got through Brexit, got through Covid and as much as there’s constant reporting of no lorry drivers/empty shelves/Christmas actually it’s pretty much life as it always is.

However I’ve just had my electricity/gas bill. It’s doubled. Fuel costs 25% more than it did. I’m now £200 worse off a month. Council tax is due to rise. If interest rates increase I’m literally screwed.

If Labour want to get back in they need to be ready to capitalise on the fact that the working poor are going to be completely broke by next year They need some easy money solutions to keep the poor going. Cut duty of fuel, VAT on essentials, keep interest rates low.
I bet they’ll just keep moaning about the state of Britain and how it’s Boris’s fault.

Yvette Cooper...experienced, forensic and serious.

Thank you for answering my question Church.

Agree to bringing back Yvette & other heavyweights like Harriet Harman.

Listening to the arrogance and complacency of Anne Marie Trevelyan on BBC Breakfast, Labour should be rolling out experienced, professional politicians to combat this sort of lazy arrogance.

Article in guardian raising questions about MPs acting as consultants alongside the day job - up to 30 MPs, mostly conservative and all but one of them men
www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/07/mps-could-be-barred-from-consultancy-roles-in-sleaze-clampdown

It’s like back to the 80s all over again.

Stop with the TWAW

Keirs problem is that his direction for the party is Not Conservative.

Corbyn built to clear messaging and an alternative, but almost no one anywhere wanted it. Including me.

Labour need better messaging, sound bites, attack dogs and a way to tell the public about a Labour government who can be trusted with the economy and has a vision for Britain they want.

Corbin lost me with Brexit. Socialism should mean no borders for workers, and the rights enshrined in the EU treaties.

Harriet Harman is problematic as she brought in the EA 2010 which gave us TWAW and her association with PIE.

@EwwSprouts

Harriet Harman is problematic as she brought in the EA 2010 which gave us TWAW and her association with PIE.

Yees. I'm hesitating a little mainly because I really hate the term "problematic", especially how it is used in today's climate. People are not static; their opinions and views can and often do change. On that basis I am very reluctant to label someone "problematic" and dismiss them altogether (I'm not suggesting you are saying this BTW, but am using your post as a thought-provoker to try and articulate what's currently bothering me!).

HH's link to PIE - IIRC - was not explicit; rather it was tacit because PIE had infiltrated the NCCL which HH was associated with. The EA2010 I think was a fundamentally good piece of legislation - the current hijacking to deliberately try and misrepresent what it says does not take away from the good that it did/does. I have no issue with someone having a GRC being protected from discrimination in law - I do have an issue with self ID and the blanket TWAW. I don't think the two have to stand and fall together.

Article in guardian raising questions about MPs acting as consultants alongside the day job - up to 30 MPs, mostly conservative and all but one of them men

In fairness, being the Guardian, they wouldn't have dug too deep to find Labour names (just as the Mail would have pasted Labour for something instead)

Realistically they're ALL at it, though the Tories are more blatant than most - but that's what happens when there's a huge majority and no effective opposition

@WillyWollyWandy

I hope they keep up their TWAW shit. So the Conservatives stay in power. I pay enough tax as it is.

The Tories have increased taxes for most of us mate. You've either not been paying attention or you are part of the elite who don't pay your share.

@WillyWollyWandy

I hope they keep up their TWAW shit. So the Conservatives stay in power. I pay enough tax as it is.

Who knew that Jeff Bezos was a MNer?

I hope they keep up their TWAW shit. So the Conservatives stay in power. I pay enough tax as it is

That's all very well, but even the most ideal government - which this one certainly isn't - needs a proper opposition if we're not going to be run as a one party state

Never mind being in power; I'd settle for Labour just doing the job of opposing properly, but they can't even seem to manage that

They sort of are though.

If you're happy living in a moral vacuum swallowing lies then good for you. Lots of people on this thread and elsewhere aren't happy.