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The Labour Party are unelectable. Can they turn it around? What would they need to do to gain your trust?

528 replies

flashbac · 06/11/2021 10:38

After another week of corrupt shenanigans from the Tories (last week was allowing literal shit pumping into watercourses, this week attempting to set aside a finding of dodgy dealings) we would still be stuck with them if there was a snap election tomorrow.

The Labour brand has become far too toxic. Keir is next to useless and all of them listen to the wrong people instead of instinctively knowing what to fight for. If they can turn it around and rebuild trust it won't be a quick or easy job. They have lost all credibility.

What do they need to do to rebuild trust or is it too late?

For me they need to start with the following:

  • Get a leader with charisma and strong values surrounding fairness. The current one just doesn't cut it.
  • know wtf a woman is. Stop trying to erase natal women as a sex class.

What's on your wishlist for a credible alternative to the Tories?

OP posts:
Pineapplequeen · 07/11/2021 18:29

@ElectAClownLiveInACircus

I know it's a shameful awful thing to say, but as I said, take the person with average intelligence and realise that 50% of the population is logically less intelligent. They want someone to look and sound like a leader because they don't know much about politics, political theory, economics, economic theory. They chose someone with 1 policy who dumbs things down, e.g. turning ecological science into a football score. This is what people vote for. Sad but true.
Ah Jesus... And you wonder why Labour are losing votes.
x2boys · 07/11/2021 18:40

@ElectAClownLiveInACircus

I know it's a shameful awful thing to say, but as I said, take the person with average intelligence and realise that 50% of the population is logically less intelligent. They want someone to look and sound like a leader because they don't know much about politics, political theory, economics, economic theory. They chose someone with 1 policy who dumbs things down, e.g. turning ecological science into a football score. This is what people vote for. Sad but true.
And this is why Labour won't get in any time soon ,you call people thick and stupid for not Labour ,I mean do you really think that attitude is going to win votes ,ironic really that labour still can't work this out yet they are the ones with the insults .....
x2boys · 07/11/2021 18:42

Voting Labour *

ChurchofLatterDayPaints · 07/11/2021 18:44

Reading back through this thread, it's not hard to see why we're in this pitiful mess. Pointless reminiscing about Milliband, kneejerk emotional I-really-want-Labour-to-win posts (as if they were a football team), and a load of barbling about mediocre nonentities, which is the best Labour has to offer.

Truth is, Labour could put the political equivalent of Ronaldo in the leader's chair, they would still fail. They have NO idea who they represent.

Your political system is fucked, people. It's terminal. (Re)watch V for Vendetta and realise it's truth not fiction, take responsibility for the hapless fool you voted for and start demanding change.

No fucker is going to save you. Rip out the system, start again. Boiler's knackered? Get a new one. Car's a write-off? New car. Same applies here, except collectively. Tell your MPs you expect better, that Boris and his cronies, and Kier MUST go, that you DEMAND better. Pissing and moaning for the next x many years will get you more of the same, ie nowhere.

DerAlteMann · 07/11/2021 18:46

@KeflavikAirport

Temporary and acting leaders are still leaders Confused
But temporarily means just that and "acting" means NOT the "real" leader just "filling in". I note you haven't addressed my point about the ethnic make up of the Labour front bench.
Lordamighty · 07/11/2021 18:53

I vote on a single issue now, which is women rights. I didn’t abandon the left, they abandoned me.

DerAlteMann · 07/11/2021 18:54

@KeflavikAirport

Disregarding the fact that Labour have in fact had two female leaders, even if you discount them we are talking about a sample size of six leaders since Thatcher came to power which is not massively statistically significant. I'm not claiming the unions don't have a problem with misogyny but there are a number of women at or near the top of the unions now too.
Labour in fact has never had a permanent female leader and it is disingenuous to try and pretend otherwise on the basis of two "temporary acting" holders of the post who got the job by a mere fluke. Two out of six is 33.33% which I think is a statistically significant number.
ElectAClownLiveInACircus · 07/11/2021 18:55

No, I wasn't saying Labour voters were stupid. I was talking about the people who DID vote for Boris Johnson and his government and DID lead to him winning. They DID vote for someone who likened Muslim women to pillar boxes and they DID vote for someone who likened to the climate crisis to being on the losing side at half time in a football match.
It was not me who made these analogies and it was not me who voted for the person who did. But 50% of the population DID.

stuckdownahole · 07/11/2021 18:56

@ElectAClownLiveInACircus

You attribute Boris Johnson's success to his ability to attract voters of below average intelligence.

If it's so easy to win elections by appealing to stupid people, why can't Labour manage it?

DerAlteMann · 07/11/2021 18:56

I'm not that concerned about the TWAW issue, but the second they decided to stick with First Past the Post as a method of electing a government they lost my vote. Frankly, I'd vote for Farage if I thought we'd get proportional representation as a result.

BackBackBack · 07/11/2021 18:57

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

BackBackBack The Sun???? If we're still in a situation where what's published in that rag is in any way relevant then the UK deserves the ignominious end it's probably going to get.
That wasn't the point of what I said.

However to your later point, I think it's a fair analysis: No fucker is going to save you. Rip out the system, start again. Boiler's knackered? Get a new one. Car's a write-off? New car. Same applies here, except collectively. Tell your MPs you expect better, that Boris and his cronies, and Kier MUST go, that you DEMAND better. Pissing and moaning for the next x many years will get you more of the same, ie nowhere.

ElectAClownLiveInACircus · 07/11/2021 18:57

And I didn't call them stupid.

I stated STATISTICAL AND LOGICAL FACTS.

If you take the person of average intelligence, half of the population are statistically less intelligent than that person.

Jesus, talk about low hanging fruit.

DerTrotzkopf · 07/11/2021 18:58

@Lordamighty tbh if you are now going to vote for the conservatives I doubt very much your 'left wing' credentials. Tory ideology is massively different so they didn't exactly abandon you. Your political leanings changed.

ElectAClownLiveInACircus · 07/11/2021 18:58

[quote stuckdownahole]@ElectAClownLiveInACircus

You attribute Boris Johnson's success to his ability to attract voters of below average intelligence.

If it's so easy to win elections by appealing to stupid people, why can't Labour manage it?[/quote]
The title of this thread is "The Labour Party are unelectable. Can they turn it around? What would they need to do to gain your trust"

So I guess we are all trying to work that out.

ChurchofLatterDayPaints · 07/11/2021 18:59

I know it wasn't the point BBB, but I am from Merseyside.

BackBackBack · 07/11/2021 19:00

@ElectAClownLiveInACircus

No, I wasn't saying Labour voters were stupid. I was talking about the people who DID vote for Boris Johnson and his government and DID lead to him winning. They DID vote for someone who likened Muslim women to pillar boxes and they DID vote for someone who likened to the climate crisis to being on the losing side at half time in a football match. It was not me who made these analogies and it was not me who voted for the person who did. But 50% of the population DID.
But for the majority that wasn't why they voted Tory. A lot of people voter Tory despite the fact that the Conservative Leader said these things.

It's a mistake to single out the unpalatable things that the Govt has done/BJ has said, and wring our hands about why, why, why would people vote for this. Why not ask them why they voted Tory? In many cases you'll find it's Brexit-related - and the underlying root cause of that is failure to recognise freedom of speech and genuine concerns, however much you might disagree with them.

ElectAClownLiveInACircus · 07/11/2021 19:01

Who does BJ address his dumbed-down analogies to?

It isn't me. It is to HE sees as the electorate and his supporters.

He is the only doing the dumbing down, not me.

I am merely pointing out that this is what he does and it has been working for him.

I wouldn't suggest Labour start reducing everything to a football score. But thinking like the election-winning Tories might help.

BackBackBack · 07/11/2021 19:01

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

I know it wasn't the point BBB, but I am from Merseyside.
OK, fair point. I know its a very sore point in that part of the world and understandably so.
ElectAClownLiveInACircus · 07/11/2021 19:02

@Backbackback. yes, I do agree. But likewise I have opinions about Brexit and the Boris Bus of Lies and who the hell believed that shit and still can't see they were wrong. Just my opinion.

ElectAClownLiveInACircus · 07/11/2021 19:03

To change the subject a little:

Germany just elected a more left-leaning coalition than before.

Was it just that the right-wing vote was split? Or are there lessons to be learnt there?

ElectAClownLiveInACircus · 07/11/2021 19:04

Just shows that the move to the right-wing is not inevitable or undefeatable...
Maybe Labour and LibDem should team up.

HomeSliceKnowsBest · 07/11/2021 19:09

@Menstrualcycledisplayteam has my vote.

lazylinguist · 07/11/2021 19:23

I know it's a shameful awful thing to say, but as I said, take the person with average intelligence and realise that 50% of the population is logically less intelligent.

Some people are less intelligent, that's true. But you don't need to be brain of Britain to realise that you don't want to vote for people who treat you like an idiot.

Lightisnotwhite · 07/11/2021 19:49

ElectAClownLiveInACircus

Dunmbing down? You have just reduced Boris Johnson’s comments supporting a woman to be able to wear what she wants, down to “likened Muslim women to pillar boxes”.

Here’s the letter that quote came from.

Ah Denmark, what a country. If any society breathes the spirit of liberty, this is it.

It was only a few weeks ago that I was in Copenhagen for some international conference, and as ever I rose early and went for a run. As I passed through some yuppie zone of warehouse conversions and posh restaurants I saw to my amazement that the Danes had also got up early for exercise – and they were diving stark naked into the bracing waters of the harbour. And I thought to myself – that’s the Danes for you; that’s the spirit of Viking individualism. I mean, we have a climate warmer than Denmark; but even so, would you expect to see Brits disrobing and plunging into the waters of Canary Wharf, or even Greenwich? We are pretty easy-going, but not that easy-going.

Denmark is the only country in Europe, as far as I know, that still devotes a large proportion of its capital city to an anarchist commune, called Christiania, where I remember spending a happy afternoon 25 years ago inhaling the sweet air of freedom. It is the Danes who still hold out against all sorts of EU tyrannies, large and small.

They still chew their lethal carcinogenic tobacco; they still eat their red-dyed frankfurters; they still use the krone rather than the euro; they still refuse to let foreigners buy holiday homes in Jutland; and of course it was the heroic population of Denmark that on that magnificent day in June 1992 stuck two fingers up to the elites of Europe and voted down the Maastricht treaty – and though that revolt was eventually crushed by the European establishment (as indeed, note, they will try to crush all such revolts), that great nej to Maastricht expressed something about the Danish spirit: a genial and happy cussedness and independence.

Advertisement

It is a spirit you see everywhere on the streets of Copenhagen in the veneration for that supreme embodiment of vehicular autonomy, the bicycle. The Danes don’t cycle with their heads down, grimly, in Lycra, swearing at people who get in their way. They wander and weave helmetless down the beautiful boulevards on clapped-out granny bikes, with a culture of cycling in which everyone is treated with courtesy and respect. Yes, if you wanted to visit a country that seemed on the face of it to embody the principles of JS Mill - that you should be able to do what you want provided you do no harm to others – I would advise you to head for wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen.

So I was a bit surprised to see that on August 1 the Danes joined several other European countries – France, Germany, Austria, Belgium – in imposing a ban on the niqab and the burka – those items of Muslim head-gear that obscure the female face. Already a fine of 1000 kroner – about £120 – has been imposed on a 28-year-old woman seen wearing a niqab in a shopping centre in the north eastern town of Horsholm. A scuffle broke out as someone tried to rip it off her head. There have been demonstrations, on both sides of the argument. What has happened, you may ask, to the Danish spirit of live and let live?

If you tell me that the burka is oppressive, then I am with you. If you say that it is weird and bullying to expect women to cover their faces, then I totally agree – and I would add that I can find no scriptural authority for the practice in the Koran. I would go further and say that it is absolutely ridiculous that people should choose to go around looking like letter boxes; and I thoroughly dislike any attempt by any – invariably male – government to encourage such demonstrations of “modesty”, notably the extraordinary exhortations of President Ramzan Kadyrov of Chechnya, who has told the men of his country to splat their women with paintballs if they fail to cover their heads.

If a constituent came to my MP’s surgery with her face obscured, I should feel fully entitled – like Jack Straw – to ask her to remove it so that I could talk to her properly. If a female student turned up at school or at a university lecture looking like a bank robber then ditto: those in authority should be allowed to converse openly with those that they are being asked to instruct. As for individual businesses or branches of government – they should of course be able to enforce a dress code that enables their employees to interact with customers; and that means human beings must be able to see each other’s faces and read their expressions. It’s how we work.

All that seems to me to be sensible. But such restrictions are not quite the same as telling a free-born adult woman what she may or may not wear, in a public place, when she is simply minding her own business.

I am against a total ban because it is inevitably construed – rightly or wrongly – as being intended to make some point about Islam. If you go for a total ban, you play into the hands of those who want to politicise and dramatise the so-called clash of civilisations; and you fan the flames of grievance. You risk turning people into martyrs, and you risk a general crackdown on any public symbols of religious affiliation, and you may simply make the problem worse. Like a parent confronted by a rebellious teenager determined to wear a spike through her tongue, or a bolt through her nose, you run the risk that by your heavy-handed attempt to ban what you see as a bizarre and unattractive adornment you simply stiffen resistance.
The burka and the niqab were certainly not always part of Islam. In Britain today there is only a tiny, tiny minority of women who wear these odd bits of headgear. One day, I am sure, they will go.

The Danes swim starkers in the heart of Copenhagen. If The Killing is to be believed, their female detectives wear Faroe sweaters on duty, as is their sovereign right. If Danish women really want to cover their faces, then it seems a bit extreme – all the caveats above understood – to stop them under all circumstances. I don’t propose we follow suit. A total ban is not the answer.

© Telegraph Media Group Limited 2021

BackBackBack · 07/11/2021 19:53

@ElectAClownLiveInACircus

To change the subject a little:

Germany just elected a more left-leaning coalition than before.

Was it just that the right-wing vote was split? Or are there lessons to be learnt there?

Presumably the messages from the left leaning side were more credible and compelling than the other side?
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