The Labour Party are unelectable. Can they turn it around? What would they need to do to gain your trust?

[flashbac]

After another week of corrupt shenanigans from the Tories (last week was allowing literal shit pumping into watercourses, this week attempting to set aside a finding of dodgy dealings) we would still be stuck with them if there was a snap election tomorrow.

The Labour brand has become far too toxic. Keir is next to useless and all of them listen to the wrong people instead of instinctively knowing what to fight for. If they can turn it around and rebuild trust it won't be a quick or easy job. They have lost all credibility.

What do they need to do to rebuild trust or is it too late?

For me they need to start with the following:

• Get a leader with charisma and strong values surrounding fairness. The current one just doesn't cut it.
• know wtf a woman is. Stop trying to erase natal women as a sex class.

What's on your wishlist for a credible alternative to the Tories?

They aren’t Tories and I’ll keep supporting them.

I don’t understand how the Tories can trample over everything and they’re still voted in.

The female/gender stuff is just a MN obsession.

@BrightYellowDaffodil. so right .ed millibars was on marr....and did exactly that..criticism with no actual answers themselves.

get rid of Starmer. stop the TWAW. have some actual policies. support PR

Corbyn was not credible. He is a protest politician. There are plenty of people whose integrity and character I admire, but that I would never want as Prime Minister, and he's among that number.

Starmer is a serious person but he pissed off a large section of Labour's voters without realising. Initially, he wanted to deliver a softened version of Brexit, but then he decided to support a second referendum which everyone accepts was to give Remain another chance to win. Labour's Leave voters found this insulting. (i know that on MN there is a strong view that they deserved to be insulted, but the point is that they won't vote for you in future).

What bothers me about Starmer is that he doesn't seem to understand how upset those former-Labour Leavers were. People say he has no charisma but I think it's really a lack of empathy. He's an educated London type who doesn't understand the provinces.

Starmer has decided to face down the party's left wing in the same way that Neil Kinnock did, and we know what happened there. Kinnock seemed to be labouring under the delusion that he had to fight the 1987 election against the trade union movement rather than the Conservative government. He spent so much time fighting battles in his own party that he barely laid a glove on the Tories, and Thatcher was returned with a 100-seat majority.

They need to accept that Brexit has happened, find a new leader (a woman would be a novelty), make a plan for the country and explain how they would actually make things better. "We aren't awful like the Tories" is not a winning slogan. People need a reason to vote the opposition in.

I'm deeply disappointed by labour. But they absolutely are electable, and the current govt is destroying the country and utterly corrupt and doing untold damage to most vulnerable in society. I really don't understand how there is even a question about who to vote for.

They need to be clear what they stand for above anything else. Are they left? Are they centre left? Are they centre? I've no idea what their policy is on anything.

It's all of no consequence for me anyway - I can't vote for them whilst they refuse to acknowledge the existence of women.

Get rid of all the TWAW nonsense.

Redefine who gets to elect their leadership, so Momentum, who are waiting in the wings, can't take over the moment a moderate Labour government is elected.

Issue a clear statement on Brexit. Not 'we'll propose something and then we might vote for it or we might change our mind' rubbish. A clear statement in black and white. I'm not sure I even mind what it is, just they need to stop with the prevarication and stupid games because it basically means they are lying and can't be trusted.

Everything @BrightYellowDaffodil says in her first post.

Have some policies.
Stop the 'Tories bad, Labour good' simplifications.
Work out what a woman is.

Don't respect my sex? You don't get my X.

I think it's too late for whenever the next general election comes round. Too many of the current shadow cabinet are tainted by the inability to speak up for women's rights and they know they are being cowards which makes it worse. I also think unions are on the decline for the same reason.

There was an interesting interview this morning with Martin Bell (sp?) the independent candidate who beat Neil Hamilton on an anti-sleaze platform. More independents would I think be beneficial in reducing tribalism. I voted for an independent last time as I couldn't vote for Johnson or Corbyn and really think spoiling a vote is letting everyone's else voice count for more.

Until they find another Blair-like leader who understands how to appeal to the centre-ground voters then they are doomed to the wilderness.

Came on to write the same as you 😃

I’d add someone who is a proper socialist. Not away on this stuff that doesn’t matter to ordinary working people.

Maybe if Jess Phillips spoke up...

I think she may be a lost cause much like the rest of the party.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4393446-jess-phillips-says-no-constituent-has-ever-raised-this-issue-with-her

If you can vote for Tory as an alternative then you don't stand for labour values.

What are those values exactly? Bullying female party members who understand biology, branding feminist organisations hate groups. If I'm a bad person for not sharing those values, I'm OK with that but in all honesty I don't think the current Labour Party stands for labour values. In fact I'm not sure exactly what they do stand for.

I'd love a centre left party to be in power or at least be an effective opposition but I'll be voting Conservative at the next election for the first time in my life. They are currently the only party not pushing self ID.

Labour has been told time and again where it is going wrong but they refuse to listen and keep blaming the electorate, until they stop doing that we will have to put up with the Conservatives.

I mostly vote Labour - never Tory. It looks as if we need another charismatic Tory-lite leader like Blair in order for enough people to vote Labour since we as a nation has shifted so far to the right (even though people call it the centre). We are rapidly turning into the US where loads of people think their current right wing president is some sort of communist. It's weird.

KS will not have failed when Labour lose the next election, though no doubt it will be spun that way and he'll probably have to resign. The swing of ?over 8% needed would be impossible in any single parliament.

Im hoping for Stella Creasy as next leader.

A woman leader and policies which are bold and clearly show a different and viable vision for the future.

Actually highlight and oppose Tory abuses, such as the abuse of British citizens' spouses and children since 2012, rather than sitting there virtue signalling, trough guzzling and gaslighting women

Respect all decent, honest prople. Stop viewing those who work hard and simply pay into the system year in year out as relia le cash fodder. Do not prioritise "hard working families" (Gordon Brown) over hard working people. Single (for whatever reason) people can can feel very excluded and forgotten as they often are. It is very expensive to live alone.
Come up with some original, sensible solutions to the housing shortage. Stop overspending/wasting money.

End the TWAW crap and stop placing men in women's roles

End the madhouse of different groups, committees and special interest groups - it's doing nothing for party solidarity

Focus on home politics, have a coherent foreign policy, sure, but spend more time on fixing what's broken here first.

Dump the dinosaurs - many of the current MPs are dead weights and a liability - Diane Abbott was a great politician once, but her ties to Corbyn make her untrustworthy and her flailing during the last election was pitiful enough for the party to keep her out of the media spotlight

Take antisemitism seriously

Root and branch reform of CLPs - weed out Momentum and the misogynistic 'woke bros' who are effectivel running their own little fiefdoms

Student fees and loan reforms

Benefits reform - I'm an intelligent woman and I can't work out the current benefits system

Reform social housing - allow councils to build their own homes and rent them out without 'right to buy'

Reform the law to prevent buy to let landlords pushing FTBs out of the market

Find a Health Minister with the will and ability to review all aspects of the NHS, make the necessary reforms and weed out poor practices - stop consultancies and agencies bleeding health authorities dry

Social care reform - the private sector is clearly not working - carers are underpaid and exploited and the vulnerable are at risk

Schools - make classes smaller, reform special needs provision with special schools, faster diagnosis, comprehensive support and educational psychologists to assist impaired students, provide extra tuition or schools for gifted students and forget the 'one size fits all' comprehensive are for everyone attitude.

We are sorely behind in STEAM subjects, music, arts and physical education are dwindling and we are driving teachers out of the profession with excessive workloads and poor management

We are woefully fat and unfit - public health and illness prevention must be prioritised.

Covid has shown the fattest amongst us are some of the most vulnerable in society - none of this body positivity shit, obesity kills.

Public transport - the massive amounts of cash thrown at HS2 could have been put to better use - finish it, truncate it and put what's been built to use.

Support social workers - these people are overworked, burning out and are damned if they take children into care and damned if the don't.

Coherent, transparent local government - sex abuse scandals like West Yorkshire can only happen if no one listens, no one is held accountable and fearing for consequences of reporting outweigh the risk to the abused

That's just off the top of my head. 😳

My problem with Keir 'decent man' Starmer is that he hasn't stopped the awful gender woo nonsense. If he were strong and capable, he would.

I really like Kier Starmer and Sadiq Khan! I can’t stand any of the TWAW women in the party though.

They’ve been pretty useless on the pandemic in a way that’s symptomatic of having a lack of a positive vision for the country at all.

So many opportunities to demand better structural support: better sick pay, better protections for workers and especially in the gig economy, better attention to the needs of the very young and the very old, those that need care and their carers. Even a bit of awareness that there could be longer-term consequences to pandemic immigration policies in the hands of the current government.

But no, it’s just been “lockdown but MORE of it! Whatever the Tories are doing but for longer!”, and stupid stunts like politicising masks in the HoC. No attention to structural fixes, very little attention to resources people might need, very little awareness even of the vaguest thought that those left behind by the Tories before might be pushed into invisibility now, no suggestions of what might help.

Stop grovelling to the pouty teenagers in the room.
But frankly until KS expressly and unequivocally retracts his comment that it shouldn't be said that only women have cervixes, I would regard anything Labour do now as them lying just enough to get into power and then bringing in genderist ideology anyway. So no.

The Labour Party needs to leave “woke” identity politics alone and allow for a range of opinion and thought with a common goal. Stop infighting and cancelling each other. And absolutely campaign for proportional representation, in the style of New Zealand - that could really transform the UK for the better and the fact that it’s not top of their manifesto is a travesty.

Conservatives: Margret Thatcher, Teresa May
LibDems: Jo Swinson
Greens: Caroline Lucas
SNP: Nicola Sturgeon
Plaid Cymru: Leanne Wood
UKIP: Diane James (briefly)
Labour: we're still waiting

Perhaps it's time for a new party?

Gina Miller has started a new party called ‘True & Fair’.

Split into two.

Allow your Rayners, Abbots and the Union leaders, and the rest of the Corbynistas to form their own party and call themselves Socialist Labour or whatever.

The more centrist party members like your Coopers, Starmers and other Blair-ites separate off and call themselves something else.

Those of us who voted for Blair in 1997 are never in a MILLION YEARS going to vote for a gobshite like Rayner. Or for a party which is totally in bed with the unions.

Only way forward is to split.