The Labour Party are unelectable. Can they turn it around? What would they need to do to gain your trust?

[flashbac]

After another week of corrupt shenanigans from the Tories (last week was allowing literal shit pumping into watercourses, this week attempting to set aside a finding of dodgy dealings) we would still be stuck with them if there was a snap election tomorrow.

The Labour brand has become far too toxic. Keir is next to useless and all of them listen to the wrong people instead of instinctively knowing what to fight for. If they can turn it around and rebuild trust it won't be a quick or easy job. They have lost all credibility.

What do they need to do to rebuild trust or is it too late?

For me they need to start with the following:

• Get a leader with charisma and strong values surrounding fairness. The current one just doesn't cut it.
• know wtf a woman is. Stop trying to erase natal women as a sex class.

What's on your wishlist for a credible alternative to the Tories?

But I am not seeing any progress at all on uniting the party, in fact it looks messier than ever, so how do they expect to mount an effective, united, strong opposition and get the clown out?

To get the leadership KS touted himself as the unity candidate, he was going to keep the left leaning policies that polled exceptionally well with voters in the 2017 election and said he would listen to all the voices in the broad church that was Labour and then proceeded to turn on the left of the party and ditch most of the policies.

Yes, JustAnotherPoster, as I said upthread, he's a shit leader. And duplicitous. He has to go, no other option.

Well, maybe I can't contribute much as a I am still new labour which is a dirty word now.

I think it is important not to overestimate the intelligence of the general public. They voted for someone with only 1 policy, probably a harmful policy. They voted for him because politics is hard and complex and they don't understand it, but BJ is loud and dumbs everything down. Really KS and AR don't need to present any intellectual arguments or complicated politics. I am embarrased to say it but probably a significant proportion of the population would vote labour again if AR cut her amazing hair or tied it back.

Really logically 50% of the population is below average intelligence and getting this 50% of the population to vote for you is all it takes to win elections.

I am embarrased to say it but probably a significant proportion of the population would vote labour again if AR cut her amazing hair or tied it back.

I couldn’t care less about AR’s hair. I do care about her views on single-sex spaces & what a woman is.

I know it's a shameful awful thing to say, but as I said, take the person with average intelligence and realise that 50% of the population is logically less intelligent. They want someone to look and sound like a leader because they don't know much about politics, political theory, economics, economic theory.
They chose someone with 1 policy who dumbs things down, e.g. turning ecological science into a football score. This is what people vote for.
Sad but true.

I would also suggest that there is no need to reinvent the wheel. What did Labour do in 1997 to get the Tories out? That is what they need to do again.

All parties have internal divisions, arguably the Tories are just as divided internally as Labour.
Getting re-elected isn't about having no in-fighting, it is about offering the public something that they want/need (BJ was cunning enough to understand why Brexit would work with the electorate and made that his sole policy).

I actually think this one is easy, though leading the party to do it is hard:

• Real issues only: jobs, economy, NHS, crime, environment
• Promise strong anti-sleaze mesures
• Dismiss loudly and publicly the most left leaning ideas whenever they come up (wealth tax, scrapping private schools etc.)

Personal policy I'd like to see but that may or may not be vote winner:

• how about strong on the armed forces but we'll only use them for defence? No poking China, invading the Middle East etc.

I agree with the above from Lasttrainintolondon.

Focus is needed on a small number of big issues and aim for centre ground (that is what new labour did and they were the last labour government to win, and they won more than once).

I would suggest the NHS and education.

Under Tony Blair, there were waiting time initiatives, by the end of the last Labour government the 4 hour A&E waiting times were being met almost all the time, cancer referral times were being met.
This is what people want now.
Look at the outrage from those who can't get a GP appointment, have a 18 month wait for surgery, 12 hours in A&E etc.

I would suggest KS and AR could remind people that the first health policy of the new Tory government that took over from Labour was to remove all the waiting time targets. Even before the pandemic the waiting times were dreadful and unpopular.

Labour need to play less nice. The vast majority of the GBP believe in the NHS and state education, neither of which the Tories really value (Jeremy Hunt wrote a book about how to dismantle the NHS before being appointed health secretary, most of them are privately educated).

They need to be prepared for a rehash of Theresa May's magic money tree infantilised dumbed down argument.
(e.g. a few less billions in contracts for mates would be a lot more money in the public sector)

But labour did it before with the NHS and they can do it again - that is what the argument should be.

Sleaze is difficult to focus on. I think part of the appeal of Johnson and his government is that it makes people feel better about their own lives, mistakes, cash-in-hand tax dodiging etc. They can relate to Johnson's shoddy morals and mates-rates culture and it legitimises some things about their lives. I think there is a large proportion of the electorate who wouldn't turn against the government for sleaze because sleaze doesn't bother them in other arenas of their lives.

Focus is needed on a small number of big issues and aim for centre ground (that is what new labour did and they were the last labour government to win, and they won more than once).

Due to the overton window shifting the centre is no longer where it was so the new centre is likely to be right wing ish which wont fly with Labour membership and why vote for a right wing Labour party when the Tory party is right there if you want right wing policies

Agreed, definitely not a right-wing Labour party.
But the JC far-left thing didn't work.
Plus the Tories are more right-wing now than under John Major or even David Cameron.
So any movement to the centre by Labour would be beneficial.

Basically the government is UKIP-esque, so something less left-wing is wanted/required.

There are seats where the centre/centre-left vote is split between Labour and LibDems. But the Tory vote gets all the right-wing votes now UKIP have been made redundant by the current government. If you add the Labour and LibDem votes together in many areas, it is bigger than the Tory vote, but the Tory gets the seat. Duh - that is just shooting yourself in the foot Labour and LibDems. Why? Why do you do it to yourselves? Just handing the seat to the Tories rather than cooperate with your nearest allies.

Think like the scheming Tories - in these seats only field one candidate, either Labour or LibDem. That would lose Tories quite a few seats.

NHS
Education
Housing

Three simple messages/policies on those subjects, similar to 1997 Blair.

I will say, after watching the Tories implement furlough payments, suspend housing evictions and increase taxes for the NHS (OK, supposedly for social care, but not for another 3 years), I have stopped believing in hard right and left labels.

My red line is single sex spaces, especially after seeing the batshit news coming out of the USA.

...and the support of the press is also key. No-one can win an election if the main press/media outlets are against you, and it is easy to win an election if the main press/media outlets support you. The media do the work for you if they support you.

Is there a Labour equivalent of Cummings? (seriously, BJ could not have done it without him, and Blair had Mandelson, obviously not suggesting he is in Cummings league).

Why do the media support BJ and shore up his government? Why do they hate KS and AR? These issues are key. I hark back to 1997 again, Labour had a lot more media support than now - look back and learn.

Don't focus on removing things (Lords, private schools, grammar schools, whatever), focus on positive improvements in e.g. NHS and state education.

People understand their family's healthcare needs and their kid's schooling.

Common denominators are key. BJ gets the Lowest Common Denominator thing and consistently aims for it. He has no shame in pandering to the LCD and speaking in dumbed down analogies, even when they are shockingly bigoted (e.g. pillar boxes). This is what Labour are up against, not a few people getting a lordship for a donation.

Is there a Labour equivalent of Cummings? (seriously, BJ could not have done it without him, and Blair had Mandelson, obviously not suggesting he is in Cummings league).

I think Cambell was more influential

You are right - I may have been thinking of him! My mistake.

Funny that no-one in Labour right now seems to remember any of them or how they won those elections. Certainly wasn't with far-left anti-semitic claptrap or polite apologetic refusal to criticise the handling of a pandemic.

@ElectAClownLiveInACircus

You are right - I may have been thinking of him! My mistake.

Funny that no-one in Labour right now seems to remember any of them or how they won those elections. Certainly wasn't with far-left anti-semitic claptrap or polite apologetic refusal to criticise the handling of a pandemic.

Getting you into an illegal war will do that to you, although whatever necromancy or voodoo thats needed to summon Mandelson KS did it and hence the almost 90s out of touch messaging

Sorry - I said the wrong name! sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry

@ElectAClownLiveInACircus

Sorry - I said the wrong name! sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry

Nothing to apologise for Just saw my chance to have a dig about KS using Mandelson for messaging

I know, time to go. You are probably right, stuck in the 90s and out of touch. But there are plenty of us middle aged and oldies with a vote.
Worth a try.

@TheABC

NHS Education Housing

Three simple messages/policies on those subjects, similar to 1997 Blair.

I will say, after watching the Tories implement furlough payments, suspend housing evictions and increase taxes for the NHS (OK, supposedly for social care, but not for another 3 years), I have stopped believing in hard right and left labels.

My red line is single sex spaces, especially after seeing the batshit news coming out of the USA.

Fully Agree

reposting so doesn't get lost in my rambles

Getting you into an illegal war will do that to you, although whatever necromancy or voodoo thats needed to summon Mandelson KS did it and hence the almost 90s out of touch messaging

I passionately disagreed with the war. But the Blair/Brown government also did plenty of good. I agree that Mandelson is probably too far removed now from the cut and thrust of current challenges to be effective as the only guide on how to be on message.

I remember reading a profile where the journo had spent time at Millbank as part of the background on NL road to govt. They talked about the fact that the party had loads of people watching the news and media for attacks by the Tories so that these could be countered with the stats on NL record/policy/position. I know NL got a bad press about spin, but the underlying principle of getting your message out very consistently was highly effective, and is noticeably absent now.

No-one can win an election if the main press/media outlets are against you, and it is easy to win an election if the main press/media outlets support you. The media do the work for you if they support you.

Very true. To be honest, if the party leader is on a prime-time TV show insisting that it's "not right" to say that only women have a cervix, then it's no wonder the mainstream press aren't interested in supporting him. Journalists, especially from the popular dailies, know very well that not only does this message not 'play' to the electorate at large, but also that people generally think it's a load of nonsense and the left being bonkers again - and then the headlines write themselves. When NL won in 97 they had the backing of the left supporters - like the Mirror - as well as the Murdoch press. The Sun coming out in support of Blair was huge.

When NL won in 97 they had the backing of the left supporters - like the Mirror - as well as the Murdoch press. The Sun coming out in support of Blair was huge.

Recently after one of Millibands speeches there was a lot of people commenting on how good and effectively he communicates, had it not been for the right of the party pulling him back to right of centre and the constant media attacks I think he would have done better than he had and likewise 2019 could have been less shit had once again the right of the party aggitating for the peoples vote nonsense and then after the election capitulating anyway

@JustAnotherPoster00

When NL won in 97 they had the backing of the left supporters - like the Mirror - as well as the Murdoch press. The Sun coming out in support of Blair was huge.

Recently after one of Millibands speeches there was a lot of people commenting on how good and effectively he communicates, had it not been for the right of the party pulling him back to right of centre and the constant media attacks I think he would have done better than he had and likewise 2019 could have been less shit had once again the right of the party aggitating for the peoples vote nonsense and then after the election capitulating anyway

Agree. It's a real shame as I liked Ed and the way he got battered in the media was ridiculous.

BackBackBack The Sun???? If we're still in a situation where what's published in that rag is in any way relevant then the UK deserves the ignominious end it's probably going to get.