The Labour Party are unelectable. Can they turn it around? What would they need to do to gain your trust?

[flashbac]

After another week of corrupt shenanigans from the Tories (last week was allowing literal shit pumping into watercourses, this week attempting to set aside a finding of dodgy dealings) we would still be stuck with them if there was a snap election tomorrow.

The Labour brand has become far too toxic. Keir is next to useless and all of them listen to the wrong people instead of instinctively knowing what to fight for. If they can turn it around and rebuild trust it won't be a quick or easy job. They have lost all credibility.

What do they need to do to rebuild trust or is it too late?

For me they need to start with the following:

• Get a leader with charisma and strong values surrounding fairness. The current one just doesn't cut it.
• know wtf a woman is. Stop trying to erase natal women as a sex class.

What's on your wishlist for a credible alternative to the Tories?

@BackBackBack

"The left has a very nasty and entrenched habit of trying to shame people into voting for them - and this has never been so prevalent as now."

Absolutely this. Piety is so incredibly unattractive.

For what it's worth and for those of us of a certain vintage, I didn't think that whoever got elected after Corbyn would be the next PM. Starmer is doing the role Kinnock did after Foot, bringing back some credibility. It's a slow process.

[quote stuckdownahole]@BackBackBack

"The left has a very nasty and entrenched habit of trying to shame people into voting for them - and this has never been so prevalent as now."

Absolutely this. Piety is so incredibly unattractive.[/quote]
This. You can see it on this thread of certain posters

I know what I am about to say sounds bonkers, but bear with me -

The facts are irrelevant.

This government has been caught out again and again. It doesn't matter if the facts show that Labour is more diverse / has better policies / whatever. What matters is that voters aren't putting any weight on this at all because they are still backing the govt.

Stop getting caught up in composition and evidence, and start asking why people are still willing to vote for the current govt despite everything that they have done.

@stuckdownahole Piety is so incredibly unattractive Yes. There was a really interesting point in the Graun's interview with Katherine Ryan today and I think it's a really insightful comment:

I feel like ‘cancel culture’ has become about hurting people. It’s not even to make things better. I ’m all for taking accountability and giving someone a chance to say, ‘I misspoke.’ But I think there’s a new thirst for exposing people – I even see with my daughter and her friends on TikTok, so worried about being cancelled, that they point the finger first.

Just to reinforce my previous point as we can see in this thread internet culture wars have made people much less tolerant of views they don’t subscribe to and this means Labour has an impossible job trying to pitch its policies to appeal to over 50% of voters. They also don’t have the media back up or the dark money that the tories have and therefore they can’t win without a progressive alliance that can unite a range of left leaning points of view without voters feeling alienated on particular issues. With PR everyone could vote for the party that aligned most closest with their values rather than what we have to do now which is vote for the lest worst option of the two main parties in their constituency.

Inightful point, luckylavender, and one I certainly agree with
As you suggest, rebuilding isn't done overnight but what worries me is that the extremist wing of all parties doesn't just go away - it lurks waiting for the next opportunity

And yes, having a few miles on the clock and a decent memory can be pretty instructive sometimes

@luckylavender

For what it's worth and for those of us of a certain vintage, I didn't think that whoever got elected after Corbyn would be the next PM. Starmer is doing the role Kinnock did after Foot, bringing back some credibility. It's a slow process.

Yes, I agree. And looking at the other side of the political aisle, the same happened with the Tories. Major got voted out and they went through their wilderness years (Hague / IDS / Howard) until Cameron became leader.

I started on what Labour needed to do to win back my vote, but it just went on too long.

Suffice it to say that I expect to be waiting about fifteen years, maybe ten if they...nah, fifteen.

I wrote to them and told them they'd lost my vote over this TWAW bullshit. They didn't even acknowledge the email

@hedgehogger1

I wrote to them and told them they'd lost my vote over this TWAW bullshit. They didn't even acknowledge the email

Same here. Life long Labour voter until they betrayed women’s rights. I am politically homeless.

Labour has an impossible job trying to pitch its policies to appeal to over 50% of voters

I'm willing to bet that a hell of a lot more than 50% of voters still know what a woman is though. And yet Labour's policies don't reflect that. Why, I wonder.

Private schooling should have its charitable status abolished and they should also be subject to the national curriculum

Presumably you aren't in favour of the UK rejoining the EU then, as it's EU law that education must always be considered a charitable objective.

And why should they follow the National Curriculum? Surely the main reason for going private (in any sector) is to get away from having Whitehall running the school. What next, are you proposing to introduce league tables to home education?

@DdraigGoch

Private schooling should have its charitable status abolished and they should also be subject to the national curriculum

Presumably you aren't in favour of the UK rejoining the EU then, as it's EU law that education must always be considered a charitable objective.

And why should they follow the National Curriculum? Surely the main reason for going private (in any sector) is to get away from having Whitehall running the school. What next, are you proposing to introduce league tables to home education?

I voted remain, but I don't agree that private schools should have charity status. And being obliged to follow a NC (per earlier discussions on this) achieves the aim of levelling up education for all, instead of a lucky few - whether that's via private schooling, postcode lotteries for 'good' schools, faith schools and so on.

And as for the point about league tables for HomeEd - eh? Oh, wait, I get it now. You're using hyperbole and implying that I'd do something really ridiculous and over the top to dismiss what I've said as being entirely without merit. Jolly good.

@BackBackBack - no that's dumbing down. You want to pull people back - instead of fighting to push people forward.

I am working class, raised in the north west. Father was night shift worker in a pie factory and my mum was bar maid. Grandparents worked in Shell. I managed to do good, started my own business and can afford private school for my kids. The schools in my area are shite. They were shite when Labour were in too.

Why shouldn't my kids go to private school to have opportunities I didn't have? If I can do good, why can't every one else? Why should my kids have to be pulled back because other people are not in the same position as me? Why should my kids have to level down?

There is thread up on thread on MN saying private schools are shite and State schools are better so I really dont get the hate towards them - if they are so shit

Do you not see that attacking private schools and women are driving people away?

I don't agree that private schools should have charity status

Neither do I, but it might be a hard case to make considering the amount of taxpayers' money which currently props up religious education

Guess that's one for another thread though ...

@Poetrypatty

For those that say they can't vote Labour though, what about the Green Party? Caroline Lucas seems thoroughly decent.

Lucas is one MP. She hasn't been in a leadership position for several years. Unless I've missed something, she hasn't spoken out against the misogynistic policies the membership are backing. GPEW have completely forgotten about the environment, preferring to play student politics instead. They oppose some of the very schemes which are our best medium term opportunities for reducing our emissions. They can barely run a bath, let alone Brighton Council.

BackBackBack "start asking why people are willing to vote for current govt despite everything..."

Rage at Labour's implosion, disillusionment, twisted voting stats/tactical voting, FPTP, lack of vision, resignation, apathy, brainwashing, family member has job in Tory-friendly industry, their local Tory MP isn't a corrupt POS/one of the "good" ones and they cannot see any viable alternative.

All negative reasons, Can't think of a single positive one.

PoetryPatty yes, if we had 200 Caroline Lucases instead of just 1, things would be completely different.

She has ethics, a spine, and vision, which is why she's drowned out in the septic tank at Westminster.

I think Keir Starmer is holding back, being mr nice guy. He is actually Labour's best bet for years and they should stick with him.

I think he actually is more charismatic and forthright than he appears, after all he used to be a barrister and a very good knighted one.

I don't know why he isn't being louder, less apologetic.

To make up for it his deputy is full-on angry.

They both need to be somewhere in-between.

Labour, sadly, are not an effective opposition. So much mud slinging without clear policy. They come across as desperately unprepared. It's like they can't see that their electorate has more access to information these days so can make more informed decisions. I don't want to be spoken down to as though I'm stupid.

Ensure Corbyn and all those who support similar views are not in the driving seat.

As for wanting a leader with charisma… that’s how we got Boris and look where we are but agree as corrupt and incompetent as he is the charisma still gets him support.

Weird argument ElectaClown

They say a week is a long time in politics... 2 years is an eternity. What's KS achieved as leader? Can you give me just 1 positive thing?

It's like fielding your (supposedly) best player as captain & watching them do f all and fall apart for 90 mins... You risk not getting to extra time as the other side will run rings round you. As they are currently doing.

KS is not playing the long game, he's just a shit leader.

[quote Evesgarden]@BackBackBack - no that's dumbing down. You want to pull people back - instead of fighting to push people forward.

I am working class, raised in the north west. Father was night shift worker in a pie factory and my mum was bar maid. Grandparents worked in Shell. I managed to do good, started my own business and can afford private school for my kids. The schools in my area are shite. They were shite when Labour were in too.

Why shouldn't my kids go to private school to have opportunities I didn't have? If I can do good, why can't every one else? Why should my kids have to be pulled back because other people are not in the same position as me? Why should my kids have to level down?

There is thread up on thread on MN saying private schools are shite and State schools are better so I really dont get the hate towards them - if they are so shit

Do you not see that attacking private schools and women are driving people away?[/quote]
But how is it pulling people back? Really, how?

I'm not suggesting that the first action once Keir's got his feet across the welcome mat of No.10 is to impose the current NC on private schools!

But your post illustrates why is is so vital that there is levelling UP in education. Why shouldn't EVERY child have the opportunity of a first class education which meets their needs? Why should only those who are lucky enough to have parents who can afford to privately educate them, have this advantage?

How is it attacking private schools to say that taxpayers money should not be used to reinforce selective and independent schools which are only open to a privileged few? It doesn't stop private schools from operating - it doesn't stop them still being private companies which selectively take in students of their choosing based on whatever entry criteria they like, whether than be academic ability, sporting prowess, legacy connections, religious affiliation and so on. And it doesn't stop parents from choosing a private education for their child.

I am all in favour of parental choice - and if you want to pay for your child to be privately educated then fine. But there is no reason at all why a child in a state school should not be given the same access to a high quality education. If you want to maintain the current educational status quo, then how do you suggest that we close the attainment gap and employment advantages that are consistently in favour of children with private education?

And as for telling me that I am attacking women - have you read any of my posts?

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints well 1 thing for me would be his zero tolerance on the anti-semitic stuff that JC used to turn a blind eye to, that matters to me, but maybe not everyone.

As for charisma, I don't find Johnson remotely charismatic. To me he is repulsive.

Ok, if (if) he has stamped out antisemitism in the LP that's great. But that's solving an internal issue rather than fighting back against the twat on the other side.

But I am not seeing any progress at all on uniting the party, in fact it looks messier than ever, so how do they expect to mount an effective, united, strong opposition and get the clown out?