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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Feeling guilty for getting my cat neutered

559 replies

Sammy900 · 05/11/2021 22:45

Hey

Just wondering what other peoples views are and if I'm overthinking it or being unreasonable? I just want different opinions, experiences really so I can weigh up both sides....

Today our handsome boy cat went to the vets and was neutered and I've never felt so ethically uneasy and awful about making a decision for a pet. I feel like I've taken away his right to reproduce :(

Everyone keeps telling me it's for the best, he will be less likely to get into fights and be exposed to other illnesses from that, he won't spray around the house. We have two cats a boy and girl and they are brother and sister so it would be a whole load of wrongness later on ....

I just feel so uncomfortable about it, so much that I don't want anymore male pets now that I have to face this decision for. I love my pets and I suppose in some ways, further down the line of the argument it's unfair/restrictive to prevent anything from living a wild and free life.

I guess what I'm seeking is to weigh it all up and get my thoughts in the right frame and hopefully come to the conclusion that it WAS the best decision....any thoughts or experiences of a similar vein ? un-neutered pets that were a nightmare?

What does everyone else think?

OP posts:
godmum56 · 06/11/2021 20:23

@Sammy900

WonderfulYou

Everyone that has a pet - is for their own benefit ...what another strange thing to say.

its true though. pets don't choose to be pets. Humans CHOOSE to have pets.
WonderfulYou · 06/11/2021 20:42

OP do you have children or want children in the future?

Girliefriendlikespuppies · 06/11/2021 21:11

@Sammy900

WonderfulYou

I see what you are saying, but do you then feel that all domesticated pets should not be allowed to reproduce at all for their own benefit?

Yes that is what I feel.
Sammy900 · 06/11/2021 21:34

I have children and I don't want anymore....still irrelevant to the ethics of what's being discussed haha people have a real bee in their bonnet for a hidden agenda on here

Having made everyone mad and argumentative....I feel maybe I should've worded my opening post differently - maybe posted in the philosophy section or something and not made it a personal issue more of an open topic.

It's good to know there are loads of pet lovers out there though :) but you have surrounded the wrong person ha...I'm completely opposed animal cruelty the same as you

OP posts:
Sammy900 · 06/11/2021 21:37

Godmum56

Exactly that's more along the line of what I'm getting at - pets don't choose any of it - it's not their fault

OP posts:
Sammy900 · 06/11/2021 21:41

Girliefriendlikespuppies

You see, now that seems really extreme to me. To not allow any pet animal what so ever to reproduce - because they are just meant to be our pets and that's it their sole purpose (poor buggers)

OP posts:
Slub · 06/11/2021 21:47

Don't keep live sentient creatures for your own amusement.

Solved that conundrum for you.

You're welcome.

HereticFanjo · 06/11/2021 21:48

This is one of those questions that most pet owners probably ask themselves for 30-60 seconds, then get on with the job of being a good pet owner.

Sammy900 · 06/11/2021 22:18

I've just found this link quite useful:

www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advice/neutering-and-spaying-is-it-morally-right.html

OP posts:
godmum56 · 06/11/2021 22:20

@Sammy900

Girliefriendlikespuppies

You see, now that seems really extreme to me. To not allow any pet animal what so ever to reproduce - because they are just meant to be our pets and that's it their sole purpose (poor buggers)

So what other function do they have? I am not saying that no pet animal should ever reproduce. What I am saying is that they are incapable of being responsible for the well being of their offspring once they are past babyhood and therefore it falls to us, their owners, to do this and if we can't do this then we shouldn't allow the animal to reproduce. I don't agree with poor buggers either. My own dogs have had a wonderful life. I figure its the least I can do in return for all they give me. When they were younger and needed to run, I used to get up at 4 am every morning so i could take them somewhere where they would have the area to themselves. in addtion to this I have a large garden configured for their pleasure. One of my dogs died 18 months ago, of cancer. I kept him happy and painfree for as long as I could and when this was no longer possible he went to sleep in my arms. His brother is 14, getting wobbley and deaf, no longer is happy to be left alone so I stay home with him unless I can leave him with someone he loves and trusts. Yes both my dogs were neutered because when they got to two years old, they would take off after bitches...any bitches. Roads, cars meant nothing to them and I could no longer take them for the early morning runs they enjoyed. The choices were to keep them on a lead outside the house and garden or neuter so i did what would be best for their happiness.
godmum56 · 06/11/2021 22:21

@Slub

Don't keep live sentient creatures for your own amusement.

Solved that conundrum for you.

You're welcome.

I don't keep them for my amusement. I have dogs because I like living with dogs.
godmum56 · 06/11/2021 22:22

@Sammy900

Godmum56

Exactly that's more along the line of what I'm getting at - pets don't choose any of it - it's not their fault

who blames them?
GumsAndTeeth · 06/11/2021 22:25

If you didn’t want to interfere with what is natural you would not of got a ‘pet’ cat. You would of already let her outside and she would probably already be pregnant. You have already stopped her natural instincts by keeping her locked inside instead of free roaming. I’m not disagreeing with you that it’s not ‘natural’ to have pets neutered/ spayed but we do it because as conscious beings who can understand that there are already too many stray cats in the world. You cannot pick and choose as to what is natural for the cat by what you agree with, it is simply what is best for the cat you currently have and in today’s world, that is to have her spayed so her kittens don’t have kittens and so on, that way you’re not adding to the 250,000.

Sammy900 · 06/11/2021 22:32

I'm going to paste the link I've just read....maybe it will help people understand where I am coming from

Neutering and Spaying - Is it Morally Right?
HEALTH & SAFETY
LIFE AS A PET PARENT
•23 August 2021
There are many good, practical reasons why we should spay or neuter a pet. Indeed the RSPCA itself has guidelines, on this very subject, carefully laid down for anyone to see.

What they endeavour to achieve is a workable relationship between human and animal and one in which the animal's welfare is uppermost. In this light it is difficult to argue against the practice. But yet people do.

For some it is a matter of ethics... as they propose that by wilful domestication we subjugate and subsequently enforce unnatural behaviours upon another species for our own purposes.

This is sometimes seen as a direct challenge to keeping pets and all that that entails.The idea has been around for a long time but it was given a kind of legality in 1973 when a British psychologist, Dick Ryder, first coined the phrase Speciesism - by this he meant to denote the prejudice that humans use towards non-human animals based upon, what he termed as, morally irrelevant physical differences.

Animal rights activists soon took right of possession over this theory and began to argue that species membership has no moral significance and that furthermore it is irrational and wrong to regard so called lower species as objects or property.

And so we begin to see the two opposing schools of thought. The interesting thing amongst it all though is that at the heart of both ideologies, animal welfare is firmly planted.

Does the speciesism argument hold water?
It is difficult to say. But in order to clarify further we should perhaps, at this point, venture to determine exactly what in this day and age, our own purposes, means and if this is any way detrimental to the animals well being - both physical and emotional. To do this then, we should ask ourselves the reasons why we keep pets in the general way. The answers to this are as follows:

Pets are seen as providers of company and affection.
We find them attractive through our innate desire to care.
Because of this we invite them into the human domain, there, to become dependent upon us.
In order to manage this inter-action we then take steps to train the animal into positive inter-actions.
It is at this point, for reasons of practical management that we also decide to have the animal neutered and therefore take away their moral right to reproduce.
So what exactly is neutering and what does it entail?

Neutering and spaying is the term given to the surgical alteration of an animal in order to prevent reproduction.
In females (spaying) the womb and ovaries are removed.
Males are castrated - in which the testicles are removed.
Operations are carried out under general anaesthetic and evidence shows that a full recovery is the usual outcome.
The practical arguments for these procedures apply only in relation to pets and are set out by the R.S.P.C.A. as:

Benefits apply to many animals - such as dogs, cats, rabbits and ferrets.
By neutering females they will avoid coming into season - apart from avoiding unwanted pregnancy this also lessens male attention and the upsetting phenomena of 'false pregnancies' that some animals have.
In males neutering is said to reduce the instance of testicular cancer.
In females the same is argued but with specific regard for uterine infections as well as cancer.
Neutering can reduce certain unpleasant behaviours such as urine marking. In many cases it also prevents roaming.
Un-spayed females often bleed when in season and this is also seen, within the home setting, as an undesirable attribute.
Animals that are not altered will mate with their own siblings and even parents. This can result in a disadvantaged gene pool - meaning a higher instance of deformity at birth.
Non breeding animals are less attractive to thieves who can demand a higher price for unaltered animals.
Pregnancy and birth may have complications which mean a vet needs to be called in - vets bills may be high and therefore add further pressures to the owner.

And apart from all this it is actually the law - The Animal Welfare Act 2006 states that - Owners have a legal responsibility to meet all of their animal's needs. The implication here being that pregnant and nursing animals need even more care and their offspring will be equally as demanding. When the young are ready to be re-homed, you will also need to ensure that they are vaccinated, wormed and flea treated before re-homing.

So who is right and who is wrong? And how do we decide?

In the end there can be no one coat fits all conclusion. It is very much down to individual conscience. Some will find it impossible to compromise their self imposed moralities whilst others may ask this:

If an animal appears to be happy and content, lives without fear or hunger, has recourse to medical attention when ill and if given the choice would not leave its surrogate pack, then the contract between human and animal is surely honoured to the best of our abilities.

Finally to place the modern idea of owning a pet in better context we should not forget that in the beginning it was a mutual agreement between the species, both needing something from the other. In the case of the wolf (predecessor to today's dog) it was the human ingenuity and higher success rate in achieving kills. For humans, the wolf's speed and ferocity was seen as being the equivalent to a new weapon. And so in many ways the partnership is natural and rather than being contrived, has merely extended and developed to take into account the world in which we live today.

OP posts:
Furries · 06/11/2021 22:33

I gave up after posting earlier, am impressed with the number of replies offering sound information.

The OP keeps going round in circles, just rephrasing their “musings” slightly to ask the same thing/make the same point.

Basically, if anyone has the basic amount of knowledge re cats, plus experience of owning them, then they know what the best answer is.

@Sammy900 - can’t believe no one has said this yet - don’t forget the rules of the Litter Tray. Photos required as membership fee!

I may have missed this in the multiple posts, but how did you acquire your cats?

If they’re pedigrees, then good breeders usually have a clause in their contract that they must be neutered (they have separate contracts for kittens deemed to be suitable as Kings or Queens/for showing and these will cost more). And any reputable rescue will have neutered before rehoming (or will offer neutering when they reach the appropriate age/weight).

Given both of your cats are not neutered/spayed makes me think you didn’t obtain them via a registered breeder or a rescue. Which means that, not only are you being irresponsible with regards to your thoughts re your girl, but you’ve already added to the problem of facilitating irresponsible breeding practices.

DecadentlyDecisive · 06/11/2021 22:37

Cats aren't native to the UK, so if you want to have one wandering around it should be neutered.

The destruction they cause to native wildlife is heartbreaking.

Personally I think cats should be kept as indoors pets making it easier for the authorities to dispose of any found outside.

Furries · 06/11/2021 22:37

@Sammy900

I'm going to paste the link I've just read....maybe it will help people understand where I am coming from

Neutering and Spaying - Is it Morally Right?
HEALTH & SAFETY
LIFE AS A PET PARENT
•23 August 2021
There are many good, practical reasons why we should spay or neuter a pet. Indeed the RSPCA itself has guidelines, on this very subject, carefully laid down for anyone to see.

What they endeavour to achieve is a workable relationship between human and animal and one in which the animal's welfare is uppermost. In this light it is difficult to argue against the practice. But yet people do.

For some it is a matter of ethics... as they propose that by wilful domestication we subjugate and subsequently enforce unnatural behaviours upon another species for our own purposes.

This is sometimes seen as a direct challenge to keeping pets and all that that entails.The idea has been around for a long time but it was given a kind of legality in 1973 when a British psychologist, Dick Ryder, first coined the phrase Speciesism - by this he meant to denote the prejudice that humans use towards non-human animals based upon, what he termed as, morally irrelevant physical differences.

Animal rights activists soon took right of possession over this theory and began to argue that species membership has no moral significance and that furthermore it is irrational and wrong to regard so called lower species as objects or property.

And so we begin to see the two opposing schools of thought. The interesting thing amongst it all though is that at the heart of both ideologies, animal welfare is firmly planted.

Does the speciesism argument hold water?
It is difficult to say. But in order to clarify further we should perhaps, at this point, venture to determine exactly what in this day and age, our own purposes, means and if this is any way detrimental to the animals well being - both physical and emotional. To do this then, we should ask ourselves the reasons why we keep pets in the general way. The answers to this are as follows:

Pets are seen as providers of company and affection.
We find them attractive through our innate desire to care.
Because of this we invite them into the human domain, there, to become dependent upon us.
In order to manage this inter-action we then take steps to train the animal into positive inter-actions.
It is at this point, for reasons of practical management that we also decide to have the animal neutered and therefore take away their moral right to reproduce.
So what exactly is neutering and what does it entail?

Neutering and spaying is the term given to the surgical alteration of an animal in order to prevent reproduction.
In females (spaying) the womb and ovaries are removed.
Males are castrated - in which the testicles are removed.
Operations are carried out under general anaesthetic and evidence shows that a full recovery is the usual outcome.
The practical arguments for these procedures apply only in relation to pets and are set out by the R.S.P.C.A. as:

Benefits apply to many animals - such as dogs, cats, rabbits and ferrets.
By neutering females they will avoid coming into season - apart from avoiding unwanted pregnancy this also lessens male attention and the upsetting phenomena of 'false pregnancies' that some animals have.
In males neutering is said to reduce the instance of testicular cancer.
In females the same is argued but with specific regard for uterine infections as well as cancer.
Neutering can reduce certain unpleasant behaviours such as urine marking. In many cases it also prevents roaming.
Un-spayed females often bleed when in season and this is also seen, within the home setting, as an undesirable attribute.
Animals that are not altered will mate with their own siblings and even parents. This can result in a disadvantaged gene pool - meaning a higher instance of deformity at birth.
Non breeding animals are less attractive to thieves who can demand a higher price for unaltered animals.
Pregnancy and birth may have complications which mean a vet needs to be called in - vets bills may be high and therefore add further pressures to the owner.

And apart from all this it is actually the law - The Animal Welfare Act 2006 states that - Owners have a legal responsibility to meet all of their animal's needs. The implication here being that pregnant and nursing animals need even more care and their offspring will be equally as demanding. When the young are ready to be re-homed, you will also need to ensure that they are vaccinated, wormed and flea treated before re-homing.

So who is right and who is wrong? And how do we decide?

In the end there can be no one coat fits all conclusion. It is very much down to individual conscience. Some will find it impossible to compromise their self imposed moralities whilst others may ask this:

If an animal appears to be happy and content, lives without fear or hunger, has recourse to medical attention when ill and if given the choice would not leave its surrogate pack, then the contract between human and animal is surely honoured to the best of our abilities.

Finally to place the modern idea of owning a pet in better context we should not forget that in the beginning it was a mutual agreement between the species, both needing something from the other. In the case of the wolf (predecessor to today's dog) it was the human ingenuity and higher success rate in achieving kills. For humans, the wolf's speed and ferocity was seen as being the equivalent to a new weapon. And so in many ways the partnership is natural and rather than being contrived, has merely extended and developed to take into account the world in which we live today.

And having read that, you still question it? Bloody bonkers.
Sammy900 · 06/11/2021 22:41

There is no definitive answer...people have different beliefs. Disagreeing with me does not make you right and me wrong or bonkers

I thought this was in AIBU - has it been moved?

OP posts:
Sammy900 · 06/11/2021 22:45

Totally agree that pet owners shouldn't have litters if they can't look after them responsibly ...they shouldn't have pets either if they can't look after them

OP posts:
AutumnLeaves21 · 06/11/2021 22:47

I have heard it all. Wow.

Furries · 06/11/2021 22:57

@Sammy900

There is no definitive answer...people have different beliefs. Disagreeing with me does not make you right and me wrong or bonkers

I thought this was in AIBU - has it been moved?

It hasn’t been moved.

But you are still BU and you are bonkers! You are wrong.

No doubt we’ll see another thread in the near future about how happy you are to welcome a cute litter of kittens. Your poor girl - you are absolutely failing her if you let this happen.

You haven’t responded to my query re how you acquired your cats.

Ibizafun · 06/11/2021 23:04

I voted YANBU because I understand how you feel, I feel I was tampering with nature. But like you, I knew anything else would be irresponsible and of course had him done. He’s very happy now!

Ibizafun · 06/11/2021 23:05

*I felt I was tampering with nature

Furries · 06/11/2021 23:06

Have you looked at the results of the poll? 96% think you’re BU.

Sammy900 · 06/11/2021 23:08

Ibizafun

Ah thank you a fellow bonkers person haha (there are some rude people on mumsnet) .... I must admit he is fine playing around and doesn't seem bothered at all he seems happy :)

OP posts:
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