Buying MILs holiday home.

[strengthinnumber]

My MIL has owned a holiday home for over 30 years. She was an accidental landlord under strange circumstances and apparently nearly sold it a couple of times in the early years, but ended up keeping it and renting it out either as a family home or latterly as a holiday let.

Because of where it is it's now worth a lot of money (3 beds, parking, garden,10 mins walking distance to lovely seaside town and beach.) We've always holidayed there with her at least once a year as have my DH's siblings.

Some background. DH doesn't really like the place due to bad memories. His siblings either pretend the bad memories aren't a thing (SIL) or actively revel in being in the place and happy as a kind of giant fuck you to the person who MIL inherited from (BIL). Anyway there was a bit of drama with the house over the summer which apparently made MIL think, and she's decided to sell the house. But she wants DH and his siblings to buy it.

She's offering it to us for less than the market price (but an amount that won't be queried for IHT purposes. SIL works in this field and it's legal and watertight). This is still a comfortable 6 figure sum from each of us though.

I think it's a no brainer. Rental income is stellar and we would be getting a great asset at a fantastic price. The kids love it and we've had fabulous holidays there.

BIL and SIL are on board as well. However DH is flatly refusing. His reasons: he still feels uncomfortable in the house. He'd have to be in business with his brother and sister who (in fairness) are a bit much. He worries his mum will miss the income. We'd have to use most of our savings to buy it.

Basically I think he's digging his heels in because he doesn't want to own it because he doesn't like it. And I get it. But hey- if necessary we never have to go there again. It's still daft to turn down the opportunity to purchase it. It would provide a better pension for us in later life and help fund the kids through university. I'm very frustrated as he's letting his feelings about the place make him miss out on a very sensible financial opportunity.

Now MIL has approached me directly and asked if I'd like to buy DHs share (she wants her grandchildren to benefit). I have some personal investments I could sell plus technically half the savings are mine (we've contributed equally over the years).

Would IBTA if I did this. Mil seems to think DH won't mind and that in fact he'd be happy eventually to gave the decision taken out of his hands.

Would I really walk away from that amount of money? Yes

Would I try and convince my partner because of the possible financial gains? No

Money isn’t everything and we aren’t all materially greedy. Maybe his siblings are codependent and enmeshed (to use your word) and he wants to step back from that.

When you are doing your number crunching how will you quantify the emotional ROI?

I can see a lot of emotional pain going in and more risk and complications to sustain it, but what are the emotional outcomes / pay backs?

I would suggest they are all below your line. This could drain and sink your currently good relationships ie emotional capital.

Emotional and social intelligence seems to be lacking in the SWOT analysis
of this “opportunity”.

I think you are minimising how much of a ball ache managing the property will be, keeping it up to scratch, splitting all the bills 3 ways and collecting the income.

I also think you are minimising the risk to your marriage. The risk is that your partner feels disgust when he thinks about that place, because it tends to spread by association. Disgust will kill a marriage faster than any other emotion.

If dh doesn't want it he doesn't want it. MIL is extremely unreasonable to approach you and blindside with fairness bleatings and blandishments especially when the other sibs can and want to buy.

Sometimes you just have to walk away and this is one of them.

BTW it's not going to provide either a pension or uni fees if BIL and SIl don't want to cash it when you do.

cash it in

@Offmyfence

Your MIL is wanting it to stay in the family..so she can control it!

Otherwise sell it at market rate, then distribute the proceeds for you to invest how you want.

It's not a strings free gift!

I was thinking this.

@CathyorClaire

If dh doesn't want it he doesn't want it. MIL is extremely unreasonable to approach you and blindside with fairness bleatings and blandishments especially when the other sibs can and want to buy.

Sometimes you just have to walk away and this is one of them.

BTW it's not going to provide either a pension or uni fees if BIL and SIl don't want to cash it when you do.

Exactly. Your MIL approach to you is manipulative, controlling and disrespectful to your DH. It shows the level of “ridiculousness” that this enmeshed / dysfunctional family will go to - and you are now just being complicit and enabling this to continue.

Add in additional “dramatic”, “controlling”
and “resentful/bulldozerd” dynamics and you will be able to sell tickets and popcorn for the inevitable fireworks.

How do you work out who is staying & when? How many weeks are you going to let it for? Do you need a guaranteed number of weeks let for it to pay for itself? What kind of maintenance is likely to be needed over the next 5-15 years? Will you need to pay for cleaners and holiday let management? What happens if someone wants or needs to sell? How do you get your money out?

If a sibling dies does ownership pass to their spouse or their children ie are you going to co-managing with a sibling and 3 minors? Eventually what happens when is ownership is split between grandchildren? Do all sibling have children - if not who inherits? What happens if one of them wants to sell?

On both sides of my family I have witnessed a lot of joint property ownership between siblings and honestly don’t touch it with a barge pole! The nicest, easiest relationships are tested. It has been a nightmare all my life. From maintenance to the drawn out trauma of sales. I have seen good relations go down the pan.

Even if your DH was on board, I would be saying this.

Since he isn’t, there’s no way on earth you should consider it.

I think it might be hard to imagine why it would be so stressful until it happens. But rivalry and competition between family members is massively exacerbated by the financial entanglement.

Basically DO not do it!!

@Notonthestairs

How do you work out who is staying & when? How many weeks are you going to let it for? Do you need a guaranteed number of weeks let for it to pay for itself? What kind of maintenance is likely to be needed over the next 5-15 years? Will you need to pay for cleaners and holiday let management? What happens if someone wants or needs to sell? How do you get your money out?

If a sibling dies does ownership pass to their spouse or their children ie are you going to co-managing with a sibling and 3 minors? Eventually what happens when is ownership is split between grandchildren? Do all sibling have children - if not who inherits? What happens if one of them wants to sell?

Very easy to jump into things - but more important to have exit strategies agree up front.

@ChargingBuck

It's a disagreement about an investment.

Oh come off it.
It's one spouse totally dismissing the valid feelings of the other, in order to chase what she mistakenly sees as a bargain house purchase, & you know it.

You are one cold-hearted little moneymaker, ain't ya?

If, as the O{P stated she has 'personal investments' and a half share of the family savings, would she be happy for the OH to consider the remaining family savings as his or would they still be family savings to which she would consider herself 50% entitled in the event of a break up?

Savings. I acknowledge we are very fortunate. There are very few reasonably safe places to put cash these days hence the attraction of this.

Ok. So you will start with stamp duty and 2nd home stamp duty. That will wipe out how many years of profit?

Then tax on income -depends how it is being run on how that is calculated.

Is anyone requiring a mortgage?

The other siblings would want to buy it without DH which is I think what worries MIL as she's always been scrupulously fair with her children and this isn't.

Scrupulously fair is offering them the same opportunity.

Scrupulously fair would also be accepting their wishes equally. She's not being fair by trying to push your DH to change his decision whilst accepting BIL & SIL's without question.

@Horriblewoman

A perspective a generation later.

My grandparents sold the family summer house to my aunt (my mum's sister) at a vastly lower market rate. My mum and her other sister weren't given the option of buying in.

We grew up visiting the house as children and now we're adults ourselves it's become incredibly hard that we have no claim over somewhere that plays such a massive part in our childhood. My mum is devastated she didn't fight to buy it collectively. Me and my siblings always thought we'd bring our children here every summer in the way we grew up (it's in a different country to where we live). It holds such an incredibly special place in my heart.

If I were you I'd absolutely fight to buy in. But appreciate our situation is different from yours.

It’s not quite the same.

Your mother wasn’t given the chance to buy.

Also the only way to guarantee future family holidays is to buy it outright. From what the OP says this is supposed to be run as a professional business with an expectation of a high income after its divided by 3. That doesn’t translate into multiple family groups being able to stay for long periods each summer.

MIL could sell to the other 2 at a higher price and give your DH some of the cash.

Change the discussion. This sounds like a decent investment giving you a good return. If each family is allocated a week you and the children can go without him if necessary. If he disliked his father this is some payback for being forced to visit him. He can eventually give his share to your children, who have no bad memories of it or it can be sold to help them set up as adults.

Just make sure you all get proper legal advice and any agreement on selling if one wants to is very clearly covered. Will the others get first option on the sale?

@strengthinnumber

He's normally such a smart sensible financially astute man that I'm just nonplussed about this. I get why he doesn't like the place. But also we're not talking "seaside house of horror" here, just somewhere he was forced to go and spent time with someone he thoroughly disliked

Some people think feelings and their emotional well being etc are more important than money..

If DH doesn't want to buy it then it would be hugely disrespectful to him to buy it anyway. His feelings are important.

He's normally such a smart sensible financially astute man ...

This is the bit that stood out for me
If he was the type to throw away a great opportunity for no good reason I might try to persuade him, but not when he obviously feels so very strongly; to me that would be disrespectful

And that's without all the potential for family angst in future if you bought it

No. I'd be furious if DH did this to me, upfront about it or not. Whatever his reasons, he doesn't want to do this - and, as it's not a necessity (like, say, him deciding he doesn't want to pay your mortgage one month or something) and there are countless other ways to invest for retirement that don't involve going into business with your 'a bit much' relatives and ignoring your husband's feelings, you'd certainly be unreasonable to do it anyway.

Plus, it's a lot of faff forcing the sale of a jointly owned house if one owner doesn't - what about when you want to cash in on your investment and they don't want to, and you end up going to court? Or when it needs a new roof and nobody wants to pay for it so you end up paying? Who's going to manage maintenance, running the holiday business etc - are they being paid a wage for this, or a greater share? Who's looking after the profits, tracking who's liable for what tax on the income? How will you deal with one of the siblings dying unexpectedly and their third now being split between their children (as an example) due to the wording of their will? How do you deal with disputes over who gets to use the property on particular dates amongst you?

So many things to think about, and with hard work siblings I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

And all of that would be irrelevant, to be honest - if my husband said something was an emotional boundary for him, that would be it. It might not seem much to you, with your "well it wasn't abuse" minimising, but it's enough for your DH to want to willingly 'miss out' on what is apparently a perfect investment. Surely that's enough.

To avoid DH buying it, and to avoid him not buying it while the siblings do, could you somehow directly put your family share in your DCs name? You bypass him, but your kids retain the option to keep their memories alive. Still leaves the dealing with BIL and SIL issue, but they don’t seem horrible.

It is tricky. I can see both sides.

First point is if you don't already do "your money" / "my money", don't start with this. It's divisive.

Second point, you need to think longer term than your children's university and pension. Like your MIL did, she's looking one generation beyond. You try to do the same. Don't go into business with family. It rarely ends well. Your relationships are worth more than this - in fact, I'd pay money to avoid it. I gave up my 'entitlement' to a third of my parents' holiday home because I knew I couldn't use it as much as the other two, and the disparity would eat us up. I gave it to the other two, nothing in return. I adore my nieces and nephews, and it's for them really. As it turns out, my siblings have always given me and my children first dibs on summer holiday dates, and do all the upkeep of the place for me. To me, that's win-win.

Stay away. You're in a position where there can be more to life than money.

I'd be very careful you're walking into a poor business arrangement because of some fleeting happy memories. I think you are all seeing this through rose tinted sunglasses.

A 3-way ownership of such a valuable property would be an absolute minefield where family is concerned. yes everyone may be on board now but you never know what's around the corner - personal bankruptcy, divorce, just plain falling out about which colour to paint the downstairs loo.

I personally don't see how you will make sufficient money to satisfy 3 owners (given the overheads) on an investment of £100k minimum. Get it independently valued and surveyed. And you would need a really tight legal agreement in place.

Maybe you'll be lucky but I never known anyone who has made an income from a holiday home - covered the mortgage yes, but a proper- worth- it-covering -all-the-hassle-worth-it , no. Simple things - you can't have it the weeks you want as to make money to have to let it out at the most popular times of year.

And then on top of all this - your DH doesn't want to be involved.

Buy it. You have investments. You have a great opportunity here and would be fine to diversify into this. As you said half the savings are yours. I'd say to DH, I am investing, you don't have to. I'll deal with if all.

The fact is you as a family and DCs holidayed there even after his memories, is relevant.

I wouldnt go into a long term property investment with family. I have gone into short term projects (buy, renovate, sell) but only on condition that the other family members were silent partners.

The problem with long term property projects is that everyone will have an opinion on maintenance, decorating, furnishing etc etc etc. Every decision will have to be made by a committee. Property needs a new washing machine - brand, price, timing, installation. All will have to be agreed by the family committee. Rinse and repeat for every dripping tap, scuffed wall, scratched worktop. Holiday lets are heavy wear on a property so these issues will come up very regularly.

OP, your first post focussed on whether this would be unreasonable to your husband given his feelings about the property. You then drip fed that he likes the house really and have been a bit short in some of your responses. You now seem to have suggested that those of us focussing on your DH’s feelings are being silly. THAT WAS THE FOCUS OF YOUR OP.
If your decisions are all data-based then what on earth are you doing asking for opinions from a bunch of internet strangers? This is not data gathering.