AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

"I think you have inadvertantly hit the nail on the head. The only issue here is useless useless bosses that are so incredibly poor at their job that they can't assess staff performance in ways more nuanced that "were they at their desk on the dot at 9am?"

That's not the point, though. If your working hours are 9-5pm, and a meeting goes in at 9am, you don't get to decline it because you fancy a cup of coffee or are dropping your kids at school. Unless you've already had a chat with your manager and agreed that or have flexible working in place. You don't get to just pick and choose when you rock up to work in the course of the day.

@LaetitiaASD - 50% of managers hate their staff for demanding a tiny bit of flexibility?! FFS, that's ridiculous

But the point is you have to have had that chat with your manager and agree that flexibility, surely? You don't get to decide apropos of nothing that you just aren't turning up because it doesn't suit you.

@Sofiegiraffe

I think you have inadvertantly hit the nail on the head. The only issue here is useless useless bosses that are so incredibly poor at their job that they can't assess staff performance in ways more nuanced that "were they at their desk on the dot at 9am?"

Yup.

Another yup here. In a previous job you had to be sat at desk logged on at 8:45 ready for 9… but then you’re working longer than your contracted hours and leaving at 4:45 wasn’t allowed.

Often a call would keep you on the line until 5:15, so people stopped answering calls after 4:45.

I arrange multiple meetings and I have found the number of declines/ no shows have increased dramatically. Everytime someone puts their needs ahead of the company needs it causes delays for others. I then get blamed for the meeting not happening.

YABU and everyone thinks you're a twat. Just arrange it for 9.30 or 10. Pick your battles.

Of course you’re not being unreasonable to expect people to be available at 9am, it’s a perfectly respectable time of day and I would put money on contractual working hours being 9-5.

Gob smacked at all these people who seem to think otherwise.

Honestly I think that's just poor management.

@Grenlei

YANBU OP.

It's more examples of people using WFH as an excuse for being slack. Having been a single parent to 2 children, with a very long commute and having always worked FT, I have fuck all sympathy for people bleating about dialling into a call or Teams meeting at 9 because they HAVE to drop their kids at school.

Either put your hand in your pocket and pay for breakfast club/ childminder/ au pair/ whatever OR request flex working so you start at 9.15 or 9.30.

Unfortunately in our organisation we have a lot of people who seem to think now they are WFH it's carte blanche to say 'Oh I'll start at 8, log off at 8.45, back on at 9.15, off at 2.45 and back on at 3.15' and think that is absolutely fine.

If you want to do that, work 8.30-2.30. Because everyone knows no work gets done in the 45 mins in the morning, you can't make any calls because it's before business hours and the reality is you're running round looking for little Freddie's PE kit or Holly's lunchbox. And after 3.15, there's not much work either due to kids being home and needing a snack, drinks, refereeing etc.

I think the people who complain about this really need to wake up and realise how good they've got it already - flex working/ WFH was never an option 15-20 years ago when my DC were small, and I had to often be out of the house 7am-7pm or longer most days.

Glad I don't (I hope) work anywhere near you.

That's not the point, though. If your working hours are 9-5pm, and a meeting goes in at 9am, you don't get to decline it because you fancy a cup of coffee or are dropping your kids at school.

When this happens to me, I walk straight into the meeting when my hours start. If your priority is having a productive meeting, half an hour (or even 15 minutes) will not make a huge differences.
At the very least, it gives everyone a chance to review their individual purpose and objectives for the meeting, leading to less chance of it being a case of people sitting in a room for an hour and accomplishing diddly squat.
Every decent manager I've had has acknowledged that there is more to being effective that forcing people to share a physical space.

Clearly OPs employer has a policy where staff have greater freedom over when hours are worked - she has already stated that.

So what she thinks is irrelevant really. That's the environment she is working within so she has to manage it.

I would only call a meeting at 9am if there was absolutely no alternative, as I know plenty of my colleagues hate morning meetings and don't really come alive until 10. Personally I am a lark so it doesn't bother me. I hate the fuckers who schedule meetings for 4.30 or beyond

Also for multi time zone companies you could have someone starting that meeting at 5 or 6pm. Moving it back means they’re starting and therefore finishing even later. Maybe they have a life after work too?

[quote LaetitiaASD]And another thing... obviously if all your staff are hungover drunks you have a big problem, but surely most people are much better placed to engage constructively at a meeting if it's at 9.30 when they've been in the office for 20-30 mins and had a coffee, not on the dot at 9.00am?[/quote]
But anyone who has a job with no flexibility and has to be there for a certain time, is used to arranging their commute to being on time
It's not hard!
I've never had a job with flexible hours, so if my travel time is 25 mins, I allow 45 in case of traffic
My current job is set hours, and whilst being late occasionally (like every couple of months, or if everyone is stuck in the same traffic) is fine then no you're expected to be at work, on time, ready to start. If you are late twice in a month then you lose all your bonus

OP YANBU.

Clear from this thread that people in different industries/sectors have different expectations. If you’re working internationally, dealing with clients across the world, then a 9am UK time meeting is completely normal and yanbu to expect your staff member to be available to dial in.

I’d be swiftly out the door if I told my boss I couldn’t be available for a 9am transnational meeting.

The question here is whether OP values her employees enough to ask the client for a tiny change. There are very few situations in which delaying a meeting start time by 15 minutes annoys people, especially when an explanation is given, and it is to do with getting the best out of the meeting (eg being able to drop off at school and be back at the desk for the call).

The employee in question may simply have no option to log in early. Many schools don't run breakfast clubs post Covid, and good luck finding a childminder or nanny prepared to 30 minutes early in the morning for the period a project runs. Family may not be nearby and friends may be unable to help. That is certainly our situation some mornings- but I have a boss who knows how hard I work and values my input, so either we push the call to before the school run (eg if the client is in Asia) or we delay the start by 15 minutes.

To me it sounds like the OP does not like the team member in question and therefore wants to stamp her foot down. Entirely within her rights, of course, but she may find the employee is less keen to stay on or go above and beyond next time it is required.

It’s all what your life is set up for. My job is flexible. I’ve never had a job as an adult that expected me at my desk at a particular time day after day. If I were a surgeon it would be different. I would need to show up on an a schedule each day.

The trade off is that sometimes I have to work well outside my normal hours or days because that is just what needs to happen. There is no discussion with a line manager or core hours. We all just act like adults and respect each other’s time and ability to manage our schedules.

@logsonlogsoff

OP if you have people in different agreements then perhaps you need to start looking at core hours of 10-4pm for meetings and let your clients know this.

But the OP says it's at the clients request and to accommodate different time zones. My head office is 8 hours ahead. We have 9am meetings and that means they are staying until 6pm their time. If the meetings started at 10am, for us, that would mean a 6pm start for Asia.

@IntermittentParps

resources who just need to work all hours and shut up because it's a privilege to have a job.

9am is 'all hours'?

Did my post say that?

Spoiler - it did not.

I can see how lucky I am to have a work appraisal based upon my actual 'work' rather than my arrival time!

Surely there is no problem with a one off 09:15 meeting if a necessary person cant make it.

It only becomes a problem if that person can never make 09:00. Why should the needs of one person override the needs of all the other attendees?

@Goldenbear

I can see how lucky I am to have a work appraisal based upon my actual 'work' rather than my arrival time!

What if you arrived after a meeting? Is that not part of your work?

Jeez where on earth do you guys work?!?! Being a "dickhead" for putting a meeting in during contracted working ours? Really?! Wow

Certainly highly skilled staff are better able to call the shots than others, but often the difficulty is that folk think they're irreplaceable ... and often it's just not so

For many - currently probably the majority- of sectors they are significantly more difficult to replace than they were three years ago.

It’s something more employers are going to have to adapt to, globally. For the first time in a long time, employees will have an increased ability to call the shots about the terms they will and won’t accept. It’s already visible, and clear that many are not just chasing higher salaries but more favourable conditions.

I would be really annoyed at the "small change" of pushing the meeting by 15-30 minutes becuase my diary is back to back so it would have a knock off effect on my other meetings (not to forget my colleagues also attending those meetings). And I say that as someone with two young children requiring pick up and drop off.

I have found this thread to be very enlightening! I have 30 people turn up for an in-person meeting every day at 9am...
I bet at least 50% of them hate you for it.
If so then they need to grow up and put their work head on, or leave and look for another job.

I’m contracted to start at 8.45am for this exact reason. Get in, turn computer on, make a brew, go to meeting

You’re expecting people to get in and work unpaid hours in order to get in, put their stuff away, turn computer on and gather any bits needed for the meeting, plus be able to get to the room it’s in if it’s in a big building, by 9am, if their contract starts at 9. Do it at 9.15 or 9.30 it’s just common sense.