AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

I expect someone's already said this, but some schools have staggered hours slightly due to COVID (so there's fewer people in the playground at start and end of day). This may be a temporary arrangement.

38 pages! Flipping heck!

Just dropping in a YANBU. I’m sure you’ll find a way to manage it. Some of the suggestions of explaining the situation and moving the whole meeting to be later … i feel mortified at the idea! How insulting to everyone else.

As is said many times on these threads, flexibility works both ways. You want to log in late because you can't or won't arrange childcare, that's fine. But that time isn't free (as I've said about 20 times if people want a permanent late start or early finish reduce your hours by flex working) yet there's often a complete lack of accountability over making it up, or an assumption that logging on for an extra hour at 8pm and doing some busywork will cover it. It really doesn't.

If you are starting late because of school run and ducking out later too for school pick up, when are you actually doing your work IF that work involves contact with other staff or companies who are only available 9-5? Or is it ok because the people who work 9-5 can cover that, and all their own work and attend all the meetings too.

We have people in our organisation who are proposing their working day is 6-8am, 10-2 (including hours lunch of course), and 7-9pm. Which would mean any meetings, training, 121s, supervision, would have to be covered 10-12 or 1-2. And those 3 hours a day are the only times they could make or receive calls, which is a key part of the role. But the people who've requested it think it's fine because they're parents and their needs must be accommodated - completely ignoring the fact this means they're unable to perform key aspects of their role and leave a massive additional burden on their FT colleagues.

Starpleck, I never said it is 'niche', it probably wouldn't fall under that definition, I'm.not an astronaut or anything! In all honesty, I do the job, it's good money, good conditions but I have other things I value in my life which are very important to me. I cherish time with my DC and have other passions. I don't even know if I'll do this forever!

I feel like I’ve entered the twilight zone reading this thread! I work for a client, one client, 100% of my job on this client. If said client wants to have a meeting at 9am then I make myself available. End of.

I would not have a job without this client so whatever they say goes and it’s not like they requested the meeting for 11pm on a Friday! It’s within what is considered core working hours. And yes I have flexible working hours too but I would most certainly make myself available for a 9am meeting.

As for the posters saying you need to prepare beforehand, you do that the day before or get up early. It’s no wonder I’m highly thought of and looked after in work after reading how inflexible people are on this thread.

Grenlei, can it really not be accommodated though or is it just that you resent doing so? Why can't everyone's flexibility be accommodated. Why still rigidly hold on to to an outdated Scrooge work ethic. Be the pioneer, think differently.

All those entitled twats posting that the OP is a terrible person, everyone hates then for 9am meetings, how unfair it is, etc try reading @AudacityBaby's very measured post of 18.38.

This spells out the impact all this has on those who have to pick up the slack. But I'm sure those of you who oppose 9am meetings also think it's fine that the people who are available at 9 should be landed with the extra work purely because they arrange their time and responsibilities better!

Oh my word Middle Parking Tokyo Sushi, I do not think this person is being a dickhead. Europe an hour in front. Asia up to 8/9 hours infront, US 4/5 hours behind. What is unreasonable about 9.00am if people are in different timezones as stated. Most employment contracts when outlining job roles include an anything else that is required.

Some of the replies on this thread are insane. It's interesting how the women shouting how we should all support other women (nearly ignoring the fact that this is a man) totally forget the concept of support when it is women without children needing something. And no, some people won't ever have "their turn".

Flexibility works both ways and unless some people start to realise that then they will be the ones who lose out. I have parents in my team in my clinical lead role. We too have a regular 9am catch up meeting. Many of them dial in from the car or walking home. Other people dial in whilst walking the dog and others obviously have their young children, pets, other halves around whilst on the call. I don't care about where they are or what they are doing, who is with them, as long as they dial in. Luckily they show me flexibility so I a, happy to be flexible back and don't mind if people disappear for an hour or so when not in a meeting. Meetings are the non negotiable part of the day.....everything else, it's the outputs that matter.

If anyone declined a meeting for what is a spurious reason, or demanding a change in time, then they would have to sort the problem out themselves and get their arse into the office full time. People can't rearrange things without there being a knock on effect.

@Goldenbear

Grenlei, can it really not be accommodated though or is it just that you resent doing so? Why can't everyone's flexibility be accommodated. Why still rigidly hold on to to an outdated Scrooge work ethic. Be the pioneer, think differently.

I thought I'd been pretty clear as to why it can't, but apparently not. So no, it just isn't workable in the sort of work we do:

A key element of the role is phone contact. Receiving and making calls, sometimes with individuals, often with other companies and organisations. None of those calls can be made before 9 or after 5. So if someone chooses to work the bizarre hours proposed in my PP, they are only available to do that key component of their job for what 40% of the day. So they can't meet KPTs, can't perform their job properly, and in the hours they are unavailable all their calls and work falls to their colleagues. That just isn't in anyones interest.

They also can't receive any feedback or assistance with queries at 6am or 8pm, we also have a lot of system downtime outside 7-7, which again would affect them, and make them even less productive.

We have lots of people working 3 days a week, or 5 short days, or whatever. Flexibility is accommodated where possible but we can't have people working the majority of their hours at a time when the business isn't open.

People who refuse to be flexible don’t get on well here and usually don’t go very far. It probably is different in different sectors and types of work!

So that means you then OP presumably?
As you are refusing to consider any other times that might help your team enormously.

It's fascinating how flexible some jobs are - I've never worked in one!
I've always been in a job with set shifts/hours, so at the minute that's 8-5 or 9-6. No flexibility, those are the hours unless you go PT
Previous job was 7-7, same no flex unless you go PT

My job is very flexible. Not highly paid but I have a lot of control.

I’m old school. 9am is prime time for working hours. If you are client facing, you flex for the client, not yourself.

Most of us have multiple clients. Even if I would work any hours demanded, the clients I work with could not dictate when phone calls or meetings happen.

@cakewench

OP It can be very hard to schedule a meeting with various people over different time zones. -

If the client cannot accommodate 15 20 minutes ( & they may have back to back conference calls / meetings that day so possibly not ) in a meeting with many people then I would just would ask team member if there were no way they could accommodate this - there must be - DC dropped off 10 mins early & go and stand somewhere quiet with phone - or take iPad and find somewhere quiet to sit.

I do get that flexible working should be a thing for parents - I just do. But equally a big project where the client has asked for the time & trying to juggle a time over various time zones - I think it is naive to think everyone else is going to either cut the meeting short or rearrange because of one person's school drop off. It isn't every day - there must be a way of doing this. If the meeting time is arbitrary - different matter.

& I don't think OP has said she would not be flexible within the team as I understand this is a project across time zones and I bet the client is trying to juggle that as well I bet.

Try doing calls at 5- 9 pm 2 am , 5 am , 3 am 7.30 - OK don't interfere with school run but make you rather grumpy whilst doing it

Goodness me! We are all trying to work and manage families and if it means starting your meeting at 9:15 to accommodate someone then is it really such a big deal? I sometimes log on at 7am and am sometimes still working at 7pm but I expect to be able to have some flexibility during the day to accommodate my other priorities. I told my boss I wanted to duck out for an hour to do a yoga class this morning and he is fine with that. I also want to knock off at 3pm tomorrow to go away for the weekend. Again, fine. The best thing about my job is how we all treat each other. With kindness. Sounds like your team could benefit from some!!

Of course important commitments which can’t be moved are fair enough and if it were me I would get someone else to do the school run as a one off.

I shall say this once more and that it is it - I think OP and important client are trying to arrange a meeting across time zones . & If a project I am guessing it won't be forever. I don't think this is the OP dictating the time it is to accommodate people world wide. This is not saying - I am not happy for you to go to the gym at x time - this is a meeting where some might be be be doing it at children's bed time or when they are knackered but have to join in , it might be 3 am where they are they may have back to back calls and 9.00 means the meeting can take place , 9.30 doesn't. On balance Clients have the call. I am assuming OP has asked for a half an hour shuffle , but that simply may not work with people all over the globe.

It a reality in some jobs - otherwise jobs which are 10 - 4 - great.

Once a week I think OK

If this were OP arbitrarily dictating a 9am meeting in the UK - different debate. Doesn't sound like it - but hey

@Overthebow

@BustyLaRoux to you

I work 9-5 and would not create a regular 9am call. However if it’s a client request I would attend it and make arrangements for my kids drop off on that day (swap with other parent, breakfast school club etc.) or I’d dial in from my mobile on the way back from school run. Can they do that?

@Goldenbear

Regardless of the working environment I think it is unreasonable for you to expect a parent to put work above everything else on 'work days'. Work is not more important than your children on any day at least it shouldn't be!

If they can't meet the requirements of the job then they need to find another more suitable one.

If a meeting is at 9, and all have to be there, then they all have to be there. I’m sure for many of your employees it’s fine. However…. There are plenty of amazing employees out there who can’t make 9am every day - usually parents. You could stand to lose valuable members of your team if they can’t make that commitment every day.

I am a single mum, I have almost zero support at home and I’m also a bloody intelligent, hardworking woman. But unless my workplace was next to my child’s school I would not be able to work for you. If you could be flexible and push it back to 9:15 or ideally 9:30, then no worrries! Good employees will thank you for your flexibility and understanding by working hard and being loyal. I say this will gusto because I have recently left a job that had zero understand of work life balance and my commitments and restrictions as a single mum and I have a new job which is really flexible (as long as I get my work done). I’m even travelling much further for this job than my previous one and have taken a significant pay cut, because they allow me the flexibility, so it’s worth it to me. I have no intention of leaving this job ever if they can remain as flexible as they are. I technically do 9-3, but I get up early, do 30-45 mins of admin at home at about 6.30 ish, get my child up, get her to school and then usually have my first appointment at about 9.30. I usually leave my work place at about 2 to get back and pick her up, then carry on and do a bit more admin for an hour when I get home. I’m very lucky to be in a job that allows that, but I’m also very lucky to have such an understanding boss that values and trusts me enough to get my work done. I work 4 days a week, and because of the flexibility shown to me, if I need to swap days or do extra hours I do them without question, because I appreciate the balance and understand my employer has shown me. And I’m a much better employee because I’m not stressed and worried about how I am going to
Manage work and home without letting my child down, letting my employer down and feeling like a total loser in the process.

Although this applies mainly to parents, I guarantee there are plenty of non parents out there who would also like the flexibility of having a meeting slightly later.

"Work is not more important than your children on any day at least it shouldn't be!"

Depends if you think feeding, housing and clothing them is important, I suppose.

Also, I should add I don’t necessarily think OP is being completely unreasonable, just not entirely reasonable either! 😂