AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

@Kite22

People who refuse to be flexible don’t get on well here and usually don’t go very far. It probably is different in different sectors and types of work!

So that means you then OP presumably?
As you are refusing to consider any other times that might help your team enormously.

I’m not refusing, the client set the time. It’s not my call.

It's 2021, flexible working is here. If you want your staff to give you 100% then you need to give them flexibility. It's about enabling people to have a work life balance.

I would find it hugely unreasonable and petty, and would be resentful. So if you want your team to respect you, be dedicated to you, retain their loyalty and not have them talking behind your back about how unreasonable you are - then be flexible around work start times particularly when it comes to people's children.

Trust me if you are a woman, being the flexible eager to please person does you zero favours.

@MiddleParking

Everyone thinks you’re a dickhead for putting in a weekly 9am call, just so you know.

Haha this! I am sure you are not a dick head OP but really, why 9am?

Realistically we’re in post covid world and people are WFH and it has meant we can do the school drop off rather than send the little ones in for breakfast club.

I beg of you....be more flexible! 9am is rubbish if that’s the start time, no time to check emails or deal with anything. Straight into a meeting is just depressing.

Ps I work in HR and trust me, your team will be a better team with a manager who is actually just.....nice and understands life happens.

If its a client led meeting then there's not a lot you can do about it. If it's important that he be on the call then he should make the effort to be on the call. If he can't be on the call then he may not be the right person for the project team. If your team are having trouble meeting the clients requirements then perhaps losing the contract is on the cards.

I start officially at 9.30 but block my calendar for any meeting invites before 10am unless it's a one off thing that has to happen. It's rubbish to have a meeting straight away before you've had a chance to settle in and check email etc

Again I see no one who wants to trumpet how important employers being flexible about start times for parents is prepared to respond to the excellent post made upthread by someone who ends up with extra work because of parents taking time out of the day for the school run and still logging off on the dot.

So really the message is parents get free rein to set their own hours and their co workers (either childless or who make arrangements for childcare) have to pick up the slack for them.

I'm very glad I don't work anywhere like that.

I’m amazed at the number of posts not understanding that the call covers people in different time zones. Why should they all change their day to accommodate the school run for one U.K. employee. How would a change of meeting time impact others in say, Singapore, LA or Shanghai? Most of my clients are overseas with an international audience on the project calls. Basically the calls are at the time the client decides. We all have full diaries and you have to adjust your day to accommodate the changing needs of the project.

All of our meetings in our organisation (NHS) start at 9.30am. Whether it be face to face or work from home.

Thanks @Grenlei. In my general experience, very few people care. It’s either “that’s a management problem”, “not all parents do this”, “i’m raising future taxpayers”, “be more understanding, my life is very hard” or “so you think women shouldn’t work!”

To clarify in case it wasn't obvious just tell the one individual who is scuppered by the child drop off that it's fine to dial in a little late and explain to the client that X member of the team won't be on the call until 9.15 or 9.30am due to childcare arrangements.

You're right, you can't accommodate everyone all the time especially on larger calls. But you can prioritise the most important ppl who need to be on the call, have someone take minutes and send actions afterwards, and support your staff.

Grenlei, I did say that the Scrooge work ethic should go. Flexibility should be inclusive. Why be devisive, making 'parents' the enemy? I can't fathom this overwhelmingly negative and bitter attitude, what's the point- life is too short.

Given your detailed explanation of why the meeting is at 9am, I think it’s reasonable for you to send out an email stating that, although you wish to be supportive of parents requiring some flexibility for school drop offs etc, due to the time constraints of people attending from other time zones, the 9am start for this meeting is non-negotiable and you would appreciate people making the necessary arrangements in order to attend promptly at 9am.

Although, it’s important to be flexible to parents and carers, there are occasions when business must come first.

Yes to Parker 231. I am also amazed at the number of people who think it’s fine to make colleagues in other timezones stay late/start early because someone in the UK wants to do the school run.

Inconsiderate and entitled.And not on, in my world anyway.

Goldenbear you're missing the point.

Parents are not the enemy. I'm a parent. I spent 15 years paying for childcare for my children. I didn't skive off on a regular basis and expect other people to do my work.

Not all jobs can be done anytime. Some work, like in our organisation, needs to be done in standard business hours. So if everyone who has 'other responsibilities' doesn't start work until 9.30 or 10, who's answering the phone from 9am, or taking actions from the 9am meeting? The poor bastards who are actually working the hours they're meant to.

In my organisation we have plenty of people who work 3 or 4 days per week, or only between 10-4, and that's fine. What we can't have are people who are paid for M-F 9-5, but actually only want to do 3-4 of those hours and work the rest of their hours at other times.

Because again that means they a) cannot do their job properly and b) the time sensitive aspects of their job falls to others to pick up.

Resentment towards parents only exists because of attitudes like those on this thread where those who have a sense of entitlement to flexibility entirely fail to see the impact all the late starts and time off in the afternoon have on others in their team or department.

The OP has set out why 9am if people would read their follow up posts. Why is one persons needs more important than everyone else’s? Blame for not checking schedules has been mentioned, but presumably the colleague concerned’s schedule would be clear… due to it being working hours! And them not having any other meeting, but sorting personal stuff!

Although, it’s important to be flexible to parents and carers,

What about being flexible to people who are not parents and carers? Can a single woman in her fifties with no caring responsibilities ever leave work early on a Friday because she has plans for the weekend, or must she always stay until five because everyone else needs to leave to do the school run?

I wouldn't take a 9am that I didn't book myself .

I don't take meeting requests till 10am as I work for a company with a flexible hours policy

@DameAlyson

Although, it’s important to be flexible to parents and carers,

What about being flexible to people who are not parents and carers? Can a single woman in her fifties with no caring responsibilities ever leave work early on a Friday because she has plans for the weekend, or must she always stay until five because everyone else needs to leave to do the school run?

This is exactly the problem.

One person's flexibility is another person's pain in the arse. Someone has to give.

It's important to be flexible to all employees, regardless of their needs outside work.

I had a conversation with someone today who told me that people with children have limited time, whilst those without can drop everything at the drop of a hat.

I mentioned upthread that I'm attending a 2 day meeting at another office. I am the only childfree person in the office and I've rearranged my plans for this. These meetings take place once a quarter. Next time, someone else needs to compromise. My life outside work is just as relevant.

@DameAlyson

Although, it’s important to be flexible to parents and carers,

What about being flexible to people who are not parents and carers? Can a single woman in her fifties with no caring responsibilities ever leave work early on a Friday because she has plans for the weekend, or must she always stay until five because everyone else needs to leave to do the school run?

I’ve asked a couple of times at my place for that exact thing, and been told I need to book the day as annual leave.

@stevalnamechanger

I wouldn't take a 9am that I didn't book myself .

I don't take meeting requests till 10am as I work for a company with a flexible hours policy

That's fine. In your situation I would not have you as a member of a project team where there was a regular 9am meeting.

OP's issue is that on their project the client expects a weekly meeting at 9am and one of the team has decided to opt out. If he can't meet the clients needs he shouldn't be on the project.

@AudacityBaby

I’ll give an example.

I log on at 8.20 and there’s an emergency meeting at 9. I’m the only one available in the team as people are doing drop-offs. Fine, OK. I attend the meeting. When everyone’s back, they chip in, but it’s clear that they think I’m handling it. It gets to 3ish. Everyone disappears again. I’m asked to clear something re: the emergency. Once everyone is back again, they’re not interested in helping as it’d take too much reading in and clearly I have it under control. They’re all logged off by 5.30.

I’ve just logged off now, having sorted the emergency out. We are all paid the same salary. Whenever I try to get flexibility for anything short of a medical appointment, it’s refused because someone needs to be around at start and end of day (even though we don’t have core hours, officially).

This happens several times per week, every week. I’ve spoken to friends in other teams and same happens there. Now I may just be incredibly unlucky and working with a bunch of outliers, but this is why I struggle to see how this is a progressive feminist workplace. It’s not. It’s a two-tier system and it’s ludicrous.

If you don't have set core hours then just don't turn up if you have other commitments. You're not the only person there, and you are just as important.

@AudacityBaby

I’ve asked a couple of times at my place for that exact thing, and been told I need to book the day as annual leave.

Don't ask! Just make sure you aren't the last one leaving. If others usually fuck off at 2.45, be gone by 2.30. No core hours, no problem.

I can’t believe a 9am start is seen by many as unreasonable.

I’m in the wrong job 😐