AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

And another thing... obviously if all your staff are hungover drunks you have a big problem, but surely most people are much better placed to engage constructively at a meeting if it's at 9.30 when they've been in the office for 20-30 mins and had a coffee, not on the dot at 9.00am?

@GertrudeBElion

If you're due to start work at 9 then it doesn't matter what it is doing, you should be ready to start at 9

But that's the problem, you can be bum on seat to be in a meeting at 9, but be totally useless because you haven't caught up/ done the prep ahead of the meeting

Why not? It's not been sprung on them

At what cost the replacement and getting the new person up to speed?

That would depend of the skill level of the member of staff, but probably less than the potential cost of losing customers

Of course it's vital that the team are happy, but happiness to some - and I'm not suggesting OP is one of them - depends on flaccidity while they take the piss
As said, we don't have enough information here to understand the full picture, but like some PPs I'm wondering if this isn't another case of core staff who don't have DCs being expected to do the heavy lifting in place of those who do

So if you want to have a coffee and catch up on emails prior to a meeting, you are some how workshy or incompetent? I work through lunch so that I can take my youngest to school, I have my own office so nobody is checking on me but at the end of the day they don't need to as I am the only one that does my job in the organisation and if I don't do the work it won't get done. That flexibility is what attracted me to to the job.

Sweeping generalisations there, of course it must be the fault of those annoying employees that have children as we all know they get the best deal but are the most incompetent!

Managing a project with multiple time zones and Contracted Hours requires significant flexibility because it is near impossible to schedule to suit everyone.

What you should be doing is recording all of the meetings for people who can't attend and advise anyone who is struggling with attendance to join when they can. Any key points needed to be raised with them can be done before the meeting ends. With a wrap up of actions at the end. Everyone on the project team should then ensure they have watched the recording and reviewed the actions list and have relevant up date prior to the next meeting. That way the organiser is not tied as much with scheduling and the project can still progress. If people can't attend the meeting they need to send their relevant updates in advance.

@TheKeatingFive

Yes I think presuming someone definitely works through same hours as you is very odd

You think assuming someone who works in an office works 9-5 is odd?

Yes. Even with core hours people can variations.

[quote Mistressiggi]@TheEvilPea you are quite literally wrong about that one, and I'm guessing you have never read a teacher's contract.
I wouldn't claim such firm knowledge of something I'd no experience of in case it showed my ignorance, but that's just me...[/quote]
I know what the teachers' contract says. But like any employer, the Government has calculated what it is prepared to pay annually and set the salary accordingly in the knowledge that teachers will have 13 weeks per year of holiday. The contracts were set up like that mainly under union pressure I believe, so that the pay was associated legally with the periods of work, and there could not be attempts to reduce the holiday time later down the line.

In a professional role, when any employer decides to recruit, salary is set taking into account what paid holiday/ benefits/ pension will be offered, and also employers' NI on top of salary etc. The gross cost of employment is all that is relevant from the employer's perspective, not how it is broken down over the year.

Teachers are paid what the Government deems sufficient for their skill level and also affordable, in the knowledge that they don't work for 13 weeks every year.

IMO it is not enough, but that is a separate issue.

@rrhuth

There's a record number of jobs available at the moment. Don't like what the employer is offering and asking then the employee needs to look for something else that fits in with their chosen lifestyle. Agree with this and it is why sensible companies are being as accomodating as possible to limit the numbers wanting to leave, as that is more disruptive than moving a meeting by 15 mins!

Indeed. A recent survey showed that almost 70% of employees are considering koving jobs in the next 12 months which is unprecedented and will cost companies an enormous amount in recruitment and training. They would be rise to offer sufficient payrises and flexibility to encourage experienced staff to stay put, both in terms of their finances and business stability.

@desperate4spring

I have found this thread to be very enlightening! I have 30 people turn up for an in-person meeting every day at 9am...

I bet at least 50% of them hate you for it.

@2021namechanger

I work with clients, across the globe. While this often means meetings at 7am and 7pm (which are attended by those for whom it works).

Funnily enough it only ever seems to be the U.K. based ones of a certain type who choose 9am meetings.

That has always been my experience as well. So many bad managers in UK workplaces.

Meanwhile my kids are distance learning and have teams meetings at 830 am daily

My husbands teams language training is 8-3 then homework 3-430

School regularly starts at 8.

My hours when working were 8-5

Do we just work earlier in Canada?

@Grenlei

YANBU OP.

It's more examples of people using WFH as an excuse for being slack. Having been a single parent to 2 children, with a very long commute and having always worked FT, I have fuck all sympathy for people bleating about dialling into a call or Teams meeting at 9 because they HAVE to drop their kids at school.

Either put your hand in your pocket and pay for breakfast club/ childminder/ au pair/ whatever OR request flex working so you start at 9.15 or 9.30.

Unfortunately in our organisation we have a lot of people who seem to think now they are WFH it's carte blanche to say 'Oh I'll start at 8, log off at 8.45, back on at 9.15, off at 2.45 and back on at 3.15' and think that is absolutely fine.

If you want to do that, work 8.30-2.30. Because everyone knows no work gets done in the 45 mins in the morning, you can't make any calls because it's before business hours and the reality is you're running round looking for little Freddie's PE kit or Holly's lunchbox. And after 3.15, there's not much work either due to kids being home and needing a snack, drinks, refereeing etc.

I think the people who complain about this really need to wake up and realise how good they've got it already - flex working/ WFH was never an option 15-20 years ago when my DC were small, and I had to often be out of the house 7am-7pm or longer most days.

You sound jealous

@LovePoppy

Meanwhile my kids are distance learning and have teams meetings at 830 am daily

My husbands teams language training is 8-3 then homework 3-430

School regularly starts at 8.

My hours when working were 8-5

Do we just work earlier in Canada?

Sounds like it! Probably because of being further north (mostly) and light issues.

I have a Canadian friend who works for an investment bank and he regularly starts at 5.30 in the morning 😂

@SleepyMombie

We are actually quite a bit further south than the Uk though

@Goldenbear

Sweeping generalisations there, of course it must be the fault of those annoying employees that have children as we all know they get the best deal but are the most incompetent!

Don't think anyone has said that parents are the most incompetent.

50% of employees hate their management for expecting them to actually turn up to a meeting in their working hours?! Rather than dropping their kids to school or having a cup of coffee?! FFS, that's ridiculous.

@SleepyMombie

Sadly the article accompanying this has had all its photos removed

@userg5647

Do people expect to nip out 3-3.30 to pick up as well?

Yes we do

Yup and then my friends 'make tea' whilst working too 🙄. If only

@Goldenbear

So if you want to have a coffee and catch up on emails prior to a meeting, you are some how workshy or incompetent? I work through lunch so that I can take my youngest to school, I have my own office so nobody is checking on me but at the end of the day they don't need to as I am the only one that does my job in the organisation and if I don't do the work it won't get done. That flexibility is what attracted me to to the job.

I think you have inadvertantly hit the nail on the head. The only issue here is useless useless bosses that are so incredibly poor at their job that they can't assess staff performance in ways more nuanced that "were they at their desk on the dot at 9am?"

Everyone knows that 9am meetings are unreasonable. Just push it back to 9.15. Problem solved.

@StepAwayFromGoogling

50% of employees hate their management for expecting them to actually turn up to a meeting in their working hours?! Rather than dropping their kids to school or having a cup of coffee?! FFS, that's ridiculous.

50% of managers hate their staff for demanding a tiny bit of flexibility?! FFS, that's ridiculous.

I think you have inadvertantly hit the nail on the head. The only issue here is useless useless bosses that are so incredibly poor at their job that they can't assess staff performance in ways more nuanced that "were they at their desk on the dot at 9am?"

Yup.

You can't have a contract saying you have no official hours! What happens if someone wants to work 22.00 - 5.30?
If it states in the contract, they have to accommodate meetings, then that's what they have to do. What's wrong with starting your working day with a meeting? Or is the first half hour now just to ease yourself into the working day? I haven't read the full thread but there seems to be a strong attitude that only what workers want has any merit and companies expectation of obtaining business by giving a good service is an unreasonable demand of its employees.