AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

Why should companies pander to those with childcare responsibilities?

It’s not pandering, it’s being supportive of a work life balance. This has shown to produce more dedicated and committed employees. For example, I’ve had a little flexibility over the last few years in my role. I was part time but my boss wanted to promote me into a full time role. I said yes but on the understanding I need flex for my dc or I would stay part time. He agreed. 3 years on he's happy I’ve asked for very little and from next September I’ll not have any more school runs. So for his short term flexibility he has a dedicated employee.

The whataboutery on this thread is WILD.

Of course some jobs don't allow for flexibility - mine is one of them. I was a nurse, now I've moved on into an education role. Does that mean I begrudge flexibility to the people who have jobs which can (and, IMO should) be more flexible? Nope.

My DH works in financial services. Earns considerably more than I do for doing significantly less work than me and has worked flexibly for childcare since long before the pandemic. The reality of this is that he's just not available between 8.45 and 9.15am. 45 minutes out of a whole day - a day that he starts with an 8.15 meeting.

Some of the pearl-clutching comments here are hilarious; you'd think that flexible workers were sitting in the car outside school all day, drinking coffee and waiting waiting for their DCs to finish, not shifting their working hours around to accommodate a (predictable, consistent) 45 minute window of time where they are not available for meetings.

As for the people who made their way up the career ladder without the aid of flexible working - well done, I'm sure that wasn't easy. I just can't understand the attitude that if you had to do it the hard way, everyone else should too? Progress, and all that...

😂😂😂
Just because you get there a bit early doesn't mean you have to spend that time working (God forbid). Go for a walk or something.

Oh sorry, my quote didn't work. That was in response to the pp who says they refuse to work for free.

When I was in school, I was usually on the school grounds between 8.30 and 9am and my mum would go to work straight after (she was a teacher at a different school). Using school drop off as an excuse is pretty lazy in my opinion. Of course, because of COVID, I don't know what current restrictions are like so maybe children have to be at school as close to the starting time as possible...I dunno.

YANBU, but all my team meetings have been at either 9.15 or 9.30am - most people I work with start at 8.30, but others start at 9am so this gives them time to get themselves in and set up for the day and meeting I guess.

So everyone should get to work well before the time they are paid for? No thanks. I am not working for free if you get there early have a walk. Make a cup of tea. Look at mumsnet. Whatever. But yes you should be at work ready to start at 9 if that is your time. Major accidents etc excluded but if you get a bus that will sometimes get you to work to start at 9 but every so often you get stuck in traffic then you need to get an earlier bus.

So while companies should (and it seems that many do) offer some flexibility, they should also get flexibility in return.

I completely agree. At no point am I saying that it should all be on the employees terms. I'm talking more about the organisations that offer NO flexibility.

It's interesting what you say about Germany. I teach at a university and one of my subjects is women's career development and I have a German student who was telling me about the history of childcare in Germany. It was really interesting to hear how it's changed over the years.

*Some of the pearl-clutching comments here are hilarious; you'd think that flexible workers were sitting in the car outside school all day, drinking coffee and waiting waiting for their DCs to finish, not shifting their working hours around to accommodate a (predictable, consistent) 45 minute window of time where they are not available for meetings.

As for the people who made their way up the career ladder without the aid of flexible working - well done, I'm sure that wasn't easy. I just can't understand the attitude that if you had to do it the hard way, everyone else should too? Progress, and all that...*

"A predictable and consistent 45 mins" -

Exactly.

and the " I did it the hard way" types are the worst.

Pre-Covid, I worked in the office, and I had a setup which allowed me to drop the kids to school and be in the office on time. Now I work from home, and it takes me longer to get home than to get to the office.

Previously I could use Breakfast Club; now it doesn't exist. It's very difficult to find a childminder around here, and I don't have friends, family or neighbours who can help.

Thankfully, work are happy for me to start at 9.15.

People saying the employee should find childcare one morning a week: do you understand that it's not easy to find childcare at all at the moment?

@larkle this thread is not about teachers. Most people who go into a teaching job understand the hours involved for that role. In an office you will find a far greater scope of types of people working so the management of those people is different. This thread was about office workers no?

Or have I missed it's about teachers in which case I don't know how the culture of teaching works only know how offices work and can work for the better

I've worked in terrible dictatorship offices (only on training contracts which I needed to to get my qualifications out the way so had to) And nice flexible offices who would never demand anything, perhaps ask very nicely way in advance and accept a no if necessary.
And I know which companies have the nicer people, the brighter people, the happier people and the most productive people.

YABU my workplace are really flexible around childcare/school drop offs and pick ups. I couldn't work with you. My worst nightmare of a boss/colleague. Times have changed.

I bet there is a big crossover with the people saying that the OP is unreasonable to expect 9am meetings and the people who claim to be SO much more productive working at home

I expect there is - because we are. If I didn't do my job effectively, I'd have been sacked months ago.

I work in a very family-friendly organisation which is always banging on about flexibility and work life balance. In practice, what happens is that those who don't have children are always diarised in for the 8am-9.30am and the 3pm-4.30pm meetings. Those meetings have to go ahead and someone has to go.

Fair to say I'm a bit jaded by it all.

I have a German student who was telling me about the history of childcare in Germany.

There's a huge difference in what used to happen in the East (lots of childcare to indoctrinate the kids and allow both parents to work) and in the West (hardly any childcare, SAHM normal). So much so that i was often criticised - to my face - for working full-time. Even though my DH often picked them up from school and went to events because of his weird hours.

My employer offered zero flexibility to the point that i sometimes took them with me in the holidays or if i had to work a weekend. But i don't think that is a good solution either.

What i am picking up a lot of in this thread, though, is "i have to do this" and the unspoken "so fuck what the team needs". WFH is ideal for these "early" meetings. A few of my colleagues don't come to the office until after the first couple of meetings, just so they can ease into the work day.

I think it depends on your culture tbh. In my company it would be frowned upon to decline a 9am meeting due to school run - but that's because our contracts all state we start work at 9, so we are expected to be available for work from that time. We have lots of flexibility in other ways, and everyone can request different hours if they want to, but if your contract says 9, you need to be available for calls at 9 apart from if you're at the dentist / occasional 'emergency' school run or whatever. Meetings would not be coordinated around one person making themselves unavailable at that time regularly, they would be expected to attend.

It’s not unreasonable to expect people to be available to work at 9am. If this was a regular thing it could be arranged for 9:30 but in the circumstances the team
Member needs to make other childcare arrangements eg breakfast club at school. Very rude of them just to decline and not to discuss with you. They can’t value their role.

YABU
A lot of companies have flexible working and as long as they work their hours and the work is done then there should be no problem. If you’re running the project team the chances are you are not the line manager of the person in question so don’t get to dictate whatever has been agreed.

I guess another option for someone on the school run would be to do the call as they walk home. Or sit in the car and do it, and then drive home. But I suppose that depends on whether you need access to a computer screen to do it.

Because Germany isn't mum-working-friendly AT ALL

there was an interesting article about this in last weekend's Sunday Times.

School times in Germany don't help working mothers, although I think there are many more whole day schools than there used to be.

However, kids generally take themselves to and from school, so that at least removes the school run issue.

The first firm I worked for had 8am meetings, on a Mon. I HATED them for it. It was mostly pointless just to see what clients we were working on that week, they could have checked our schedules.
9am meeting also seems like a dick move, ppl are only settling into work, let them have their coffee, catch up on a few emails, or as pointed out possibly drop kids at school.

There's a huge difference in what used to happen in the East (lots of childcare to indoctrinate the kids and allow both parents to work) and in the West (hardly any childcare, SAHM normal). So much so that i was often criticised - to my face - for working full-time. Even though my DH often picked them up from school and went to events because of his weird hours.

Yeah this is what she was saying.... it was interesting.

Of course people can organise childcare and pay for it. Or get into work an hour early, or do all manner of things.
I have zero issue with organising things when it is necessary. I leave employers that make me come in at a certain time for stupid meetings that are a waste of time. or meetings that could easily be organised a bit later. And yes I did leave an employer like this. It was about power and control. I say you will come in at this time so you will. I actually said to the client oh we had better finish now as I know you have another event to go onto - what I had been told. No the client said confused, am fine to carry on. I had to pay for extra childcare for no reason.

The client set the time. The client will be working late to accommodate UK time.

They are trying to be flexible.

This thread is a fantastic example on how WFM employees are now so entitled and feel they can dictate working hours to employers.

If your business/office opening hours start at 9am then you take the meeting at 9am if one is scheduled. Getting your kids to school is not the responsibly of the employer.

My DH had exactly the same issue when his staff were working from home. They took the piss so they were all dragged back in the office - funnily enough they can all make it to work for 9am

If you can work from home it doesn't mean you are entitled to and you must be available to start the working day when you are supposed to.

The ridiculous excuses my DH had ranged from talking the dog for a walk the long way home from school drop off, getting caught in traffic on the way back from a pre booked gym class (rush hour traffic) to needing to return a parcel to the post office and it was the last day. This isn't including the time an employee was taking calls of clients whilst walking round B&Q with his wife. The client heard a tannoy announcement..

For my DH business WFH was not as effective as being in the office. So if you are incredibly lucky enough to be able to WFH you get your arse ready for the meeting.

Make it 9:30 ffs

Working and juggling childcare is really hard and good employers recognise this and allow a bit of flex