AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

@charliesbookmarker I don't think OP is the employer here. From the way it's been written, she's a same-level colleague who doesn't want to have to manage the clients expectations

@charliesbookmarker

This thread is a fantastic example on how WFM employees are now so entitled and feel they can dictate working hours to employers.

If your business/office opening hours start at 9am then you take the meeting at 9am if one is scheduled. Getting your kids to school is not the responsibly of the employer.

My DH had exactly the same issue when his staff were working from home. They took the piss so they were all dragged back in the office - funnily enough they can all make it to work for 9am

If you can work from home it doesn't mean you are entitled to and you must be available to start the working day when you are supposed to.

The ridiculous excuses my DH had ranged from talking the dog for a walk the long way home from school drop off, getting caught in traffic on the way back from a pre booked gym class (rush hour traffic) to needing to return a parcel to the post office and it was the last day. This isn't including the time an employee was taking calls of clients whilst walking round B&Q with his wife. The client heard a tannoy announcement..

For my DH business WFH was not as effective as being in the office. So if you are incredibly lucky enough to be able to WFH you get your arse ready for the meeting.

I do wonder how many will stay and how many will find other jobs. In my sector good employees are hard to get. I have got a new job that they found it hard to recruit for and I have dictated my working hours. I am flexible when it is necessary, but not for the sake of it.

@julieca

Of course people can organise childcare and pay for it. Or get into work an hour early, or do all manner of things. I have zero issue with organising things when it is necessary. I leave employers that make me come in at a certain time for stupid meetings that are a waste of time. or meetings that could easily be organised a bit later. And yes I did leave an employer like this. It was about power and control. I say you will come in at this time so you will. I actually said to the client oh we had better finish now as I know you have another event to go onto - what I had been told. No the client said confused, am fine to carry on. I had to pay for extra childcare for no reason.

I say you will come in at this time and so you will

Well yeah that generally happens when you work for some one. You can always start your own business up. But be careful if you keep leaving places because your timetable doesn't fit with theirs you might have new employees questioning your longevity if you are job hopping.

voted NBU assuming that the contract of employment provided for a 9am start - but then you say the contract does not specify hours. Well YABU then.

@charliesbookmarker

You are out of touch im afraid. Sounds like your husband is too

OP, are you sure the contract says nothing about hours? Because that would be very unusual.

I was on the client side for 20 years with many calls with professionals where £500 hour was not unusual.

Whilst sometimes there may be no options and you expect the professional to drop everything most of the time if you are sensible you are flexible. You also expect professionals to work in teams so you are not too reliant on any one individual.

What is much more annoying than one non critical person missing part of a call is losing a trusted advisor to burnout and 6 months leave or losing them when they change employer.

School times in Germany don't help working mothers, although I think there are many more whole day schools than there used to be.
However, kids generally take themselves to and from school, so that at least removes the school run issue.

It depends where you are. They also tend to start between 7:30 and 8 so it's early and dark for a lot of the year. But the places at the "whole day" facilities are wildly oversubscribed, and in rural areas they are definitely not the norm.

But most people here would hate working with most Germans i know - they tend to start early and finish early. 7:30 at your desk and working isn't uncommon.

@sausageflowers
Sure, most people who have gone into teaching in the past have known that it is front facing, very early start, late finishes but the trade off was long holidays and it was seen as more family friendly than office jobs. Not surprisingly the last couple of years have changed people's perceptions of teaching dramatically.
Like carers and nurses, teaching is no longer seen as family friendly and graduates are looking elsewhere now. It is disingenuous to pretend that would be teachers (most of whom have traditionally been women) will look at jobs and think about a future family friendly profession and reject teaching as a career.
And that is exactly what Head Teachers trying to recruit new teachers are finding. I had a Head Teacher complaining about having to use supply teachers in a reception class. Really hard to settle young children with a temporary member of staff. He said it was proving impossible to find a new Reception teacher. The problem will only get worse.

Then she began to complain that the daily meeting interrupted her work(!), could we change the time? Er, noooo.
Tbf meetings do get in the way a bit

You’re not being technically unreasonable, but honestly a weekly 9am meeting? As a PP above said - that is a dick move. Make it 9:30 like normal humans.

@charliesbookmarker I have never job hopped. I have been with most of my employers for years. But when I hit a duff one you are damn right I job hop. The current one I have been with for six months and they are brilliant. I have been really impressed with the way they treat staff. No petty rules and everyone works really hard. The people who leave quickly are slackers.
Crap employers are fine when unemployment is high. But I have to be honest, all those I know that say they are struggling for good staff at the moment are the crap ones. Even my local pub who has a brilliant landlord has no issues with staff. Our local weatherspoons who treat staff like shit cant get or keep staff.
So make your choice.

Just make it 9 30 and it will be a lot less stressful.

@Bin85

Just make it 9 30 and it will be a lot less stressful.

What if that doesn’t work for employees on different time zones ?

[quote chlorineirene]@charliesbookmarker

You are out of touch im afraid. Sounds like your husband is too[/quote]
Nope my dh business is in the financial industry, when you are dealing with other peoples money you need to be on the ball and committed other wise they can leave because we have a regulating body constantly breathing down our necks.

If you are employed by some one it is not their responsibility to factor in you kids school drop off

I work hard. I'm productive. I get the job done. I also drop my kids to school on a regular basis.

When necessary I make it to " the out of the ordinary meetings " at drop off time.

But my work environment supports this"regular and predictable 45 mins" ( as another poster succinctly put it ) out of my day.

It would be pissy and negative not too. And they'd probably lose me.

I'm not calling the shots, taking the piss or not working hard at what I do.

I think times are changing.

Depends how much you value your team OP?

Shift it 15 mins or cover for your colleague until they get there.

YABU.

I block out the first hour of my day, every day, because that's my time to plan for the day, reply to emails, and prep for any meetings coming up.

Also, our core hours are 10-2, so all meetings happen within that time unless agreed specifically.

(Also, NOBODY wants a 9am meeting full stop...)

@charliesbookmarker

This thread is a fantastic example on how WFM employees are now so entitled and feel they can dictate working hours to employers.

If your business/office opening hours start at 9am then you take the meeting at 9am if one is scheduled. Getting your kids to school is not the responsibly of the employer.

My DH had exactly the same issue when his staff were working from home. They took the piss so they were all dragged back in the office - funnily enough they can all make it to work for 9am

If you can work from home it doesn't mean you are entitled to and you must be available to start the working day when you are supposed to.

The ridiculous excuses my DH had ranged from talking the dog for a walk the long way home from school drop off, getting caught in traffic on the way back from a pre booked gym class (rush hour traffic) to needing to return a parcel to the post office and it was the last day. This isn't including the time an employee was taking calls of clients whilst walking round B&Q with his wife. The client heard a tannoy announcement..

For my DH business WFH was not as effective as being in the office. So if you are incredibly lucky enough to be able to WFH you get your arse ready for the meeting.

There is nothing to say these business hours start at 9am, though. OP says there are no core hours.

Also no, I'm not doing 9am meetings, because I don't want to. Didn't when I was last office based either. My employer will either accept this or I will go elsewhere. Your approach simply doesn't work when the employee has skills that are in demand.

Just don't put it in late! I was so annoyed at the amount of meetings that were changed from 830/9 to 2pm onwards. I finish at 3pm on various days so just decline them, too much to wrap up at 2pm to be in a meeting.

Personally, early meetings make much more sense to me but I'm a morning person. Nothing worse than being on a call that's due to end at your finish time that's over running.

It's like Tetris at our place with meetings now. I have an official flexible pattern in place so luckily I can decline without any push back.

We have gone back to early doors meetings now. I've been at work at least 1 hour by 9am, 2 hours depending on the day. It was the only way we could fit in what we needed based on official working patterns.

ExceptionalAssurance well I am sure if they are in that much demand they can get employment else where.

Not sure how the interview process will go

New employer : 'so why did you leave your last job?'
New Employee : 'God they wanted me to be present at a 9am meeting...can you imagine!'

@MiddleParking

Everyone thinks you’re a dickhead for putting in a weekly 9am call, just so you know.

So true! Whatever the core hours, policies etc, 9 am meetings are a dick move, especially regular ones.

We never have meetings at 9 o'clock. Our boss schedules them for 9.30 to allow for any computer glitches, everyone to get a brew and settled in etc. It works well for us.

So true! Whatever the core hours, policies etc, 9 am meetings are a dick move, especially regular ones.

I am fine with regular 9am meetings 🤷‍♀️ Gets them out of the way so you can get on with other things.

The culture in different industries is fascinating. I work in recruitment and genuinely in a flexible, collaborative environment; but if I suggested to my boss I couldn't do a 9am client meeting because of a school run or because I needed a few mins to get my brain in gear, I'd be out the door in seconds 🤯

...the time an employee was taking calls of clients whilst walking round B&Q with his wife. The client heard a tannoy announcement..

Isn't that a huge breach of confidentiality, if he's discussing the client's affairs in front of his wife and any random person in the store? The client would have a right to be furious.

Privacy and confidentiality are major concerns when people are wfh or taking calls on the school run or in Tesco. The person on the other end has no idea who else can overhear.