Friend says she judges me for being in contact with my Dad

[niceandwarming]

I want to start this post off by saying I don't condone any of my Dad's views in any shape of form.

My Dad and I have an ok relationship, I am in my mid 20's but he has a lot views which are absolutely disgusting. First off he is racist, openly thinks black people have what he calls a "chip on their shoulder", I heard him once refer to a disabled person using the r word, thinks people who are going to clubs and getting spiked is their own fault as their drunk. Calls gay people "Queers".

My friend has said she judges me for staying in contact and having a relationship with him.

Would you do the same?

@RudestLittleMadam

I wouldn’t judge exactly but I would wonder why you’d want to be in contact with such a vile person, dad or not. You also say you get on ok with him. Is that because you don’t challenge his disgusting views at all? Only because I don’t see how else you’d have an ok relationship with him.

I’d definitely refuse to socialise with you if he was there.

You can challenge someone's views AND have a good relationship with them, I argue with my parents about things they say all the time, but still have a great relationship with them.. in fact the fact that I can call them out on stuff is probably why we have a good relationship, but also, I'm assuming OPs dad isn't some caricature that only says racist, homophobic and misogynistic things 24/7 and has no other depth to them and never talks about other stuff

‘The lack of understanding about abusive relationships and how they work shows massively in this one’.

@JustLyra - by the time my friend was married she was 42 and she’d left home decades before. Her DM had divorced her DF many years ago after he had an affair with her friend. Her DF was in his 70s full of the ravages of years of alcoholism and smoking. Even though he still had a mouth on him his reign of physical terror was over as he has COPD and can barely walk up the street never mind throw punches at grown adults. She could have told him to not attend if he couldn’t accept who she wanted to take part in her wedding. She should have not given into his racism. The rest of the attendees would have had him removed if he’d tried to ruin her wedding. But she gave in.

So no she was in the wrong and should have had her friend who’d been with her since primary school, who was there for her when he father was in his ‘prime’, and who’s mum used to have her over when she didn’t want to go home as her bridesmaid. He’s probably only got a few years left but she’s now driven a wedge in between a more positive relationship.

It isn't your friends place to judge you.

I personally would keep a distance if he was my Dad because I would challenge his views every time and we'd hate each other.

He'd know I didn't want to hear his shit talk.

@MangoIce

You can love someone despite their views. You just change the subject (unless they’re a paedo, terrorist or abusive). Your friend needs to get a hobby because she’s too obsessed about you and what others think.

On a side note. I thought queer was a slur, but now it’s LGBTQ as in Q for queer? So confusing.

Swap queer for the ‘n word’ just because some people use it doesn’t mean it isn’t still a slur (not that they are of equal offensiveness) since you claim to be bewildered. I personally vehemently hate the term and object to having it foisted on me but if it’s said kindly in the right context it is different than somebody sneering it? It’s obvious from the context the OP provided that it isn’t being said in that way.

My grandma is 90 and probably has some views that are questionable, should I stop seeing my Nan!?

Tbh this is what I did (before she died) and my life was 1000 times better for it.

@DontKnowMyOwnName

My grandma is 90 and probably has some views that are questionable, should I stop seeing my Nan!?

Tbh this is what I did (before she died) and my life was 1000 times better for it.

..My Nan is one of the best most strongest women I know.. but she doesn't believe in gay marriage, we don't tend to talk much about it but on the odd time it might come up I do tell her I disagree with her and then we move on, to cut her off because she has a view that could be seen as bigoted would be absolutely ridiculous and heartless tbh. I thought we were all about tolerance nowadays?

Not anymore it seems @Keke94LND it's getting to the point where its expected that we must all agree at all times. Anyone doing or thinking differently should be shunned.

@TheChip

Not anymore it seems *@Keke94LND* it's getting to the point where its expected that we must all agree at all times. Anyone doing or thinking differently should be shunned.

Yep, Wrong think

Yeah, that's fucking awful. What a horrible person to be associated with. What possible good points could trump all that hate and bigotry? Why would you keep someone like that around?

Tolerance appears to only be on your terms. It took a massive amount of strength and courage for me to stand up to my grandmother and say 'that's enough now, I'm finished' and for it to be belittled as being simply intolerant is a pretty bizarre and hurtful take.

I actively chose to limit contact with a toxic person because it was hugely detrimental to me and my life, but that decision is not ok with some people purely because she and I shared some DNA and because she was a little old lady?

I understand the reasons that people keep family in their lives even where they have despicable views, but those who choose not to should not be derided.

@DontKnowMyOwnName

Tolerance appears to only be on your terms. It took a massive amount of strength and courage for me to stand up to my grandmother and say 'that's enough now, I'm finished' and for it to be belittled as being simply intolerant is a pretty bizarre and hurtful take.

I actively chose to limit contact with a toxic person because it was hugely detrimental to me and my life, but that decision is not ok with some people purely because she and I shared some DNA and because she was a little old lady?

I understand the reasons that people keep family in their lives even where they have despicable views, but those who choose not to should not be derided.

Tbh... I was talking about my grandma not yours. I said that my 90 year old grandma had some questionable views and should I just cut her off because of that? You then said that you cut your Nan off and are 1000 times happier. Your original reply gave no context to what your Nan was like so I can only assume that, like mine, she had some questionable views and you then cut her off. I never said that my Nan is an evil witch who I hate, just that she has some views I don't agree with. I think we are talking about different things here.

Ok. That's fair.

If those who would have no contact because of his views, would you decline any inheritance or legacy when the holder of the views dies?

I'd find it hard to be friends with someone who - through inaction - condoned that kind of view. I wouldn't be close to anyone who held such abhorrent views - I haven't seen my very similar grandfather since I was 16 and old enough to decide I didn't want a relationship with him, because by sitting silently when he started one of his disgusting conversation topics was letting him think it was okay. Even disagreeing with him, but then going to visit the next week was implicitly condoning it. So I stopped.

Your dad's a horrible bigot. If you can sit by and separate that out, that's your choice. I couldn't, and lots of people couldn't. I don't think your friend is out of order, to be honest.

The views on here are awful.
He's your dad, you don't agree with him, but he raised you and you love him....
Your friend is a judgmental idiot and should support you in navigating such a difficult relationship.

You can't judge people on third party behaviour. Awful. I'm so sorry you're on this situation.

@IsleofRum

If those who would have no contact because of his views, would you decline any inheritance or legacy when the holder of the views dies?

I've specifically stated, both to him and to my mum and sister, that I don't want anything from my (reasonably wealthy) grandfather's will because he's a racist and a homophobe and he has made those views very clear. He's refused to change it, apparently, because he 'doesn't understand' why I despise him. Him and his money can get fucked.

@NothingSafe

I'd find it hard to be friends with someone who - through inaction - condoned that kind of view. I wouldn't be close to anyone who held such abhorrent views - I haven't seen my very similar grandfather since I was 16 and old enough to decide I didn't want a relationship with him, because by sitting silently when he started one of his disgusting conversation topics was letting him think it was okay. Even disagreeing with him, but then going to visit the next week was implicitly condoning it. So I stopped.

Your dad's a horrible bigot. If you can sit by and separate that out, that's your choice. I couldn't, and lots of people couldn't. I don't think your friend is out of order, to be honest.

I think this is a very black and white view, people can be good and think/do bad things, in the same way that people can be bad and think/do good things. It is very rare for everyone in a family to think the same things, mainly because families are made up of different generations, my example earlier regarding my grandma not agreeing with gay marriage for example, I am young and I agree with gay marriage, but my grandma grew up in a time where it wasn't even accepted to be gay. People have different views for different reasons, such as cultural differences or generational differences, wrong or right it doesn't always make them horrific monsters.

My eldest son was recently convicted of sharing child abuse images. My friends and family have expressed nothing but absolute sympathy for me and at no point judged me for his actions. They all fully expected me to stay in touch with him and continue to support him as he's my son and he clearly needs it.

That doesn't mean I haven't hugely struggled with reviving my love for him with his horrendous actions/behaviour. But he's my son. You need better friends.

@DontKnowMyOwnName

Tolerance appears to only be on your terms. It took a massive amount of strength and courage for me to stand up to my grandmother and say 'that's enough now, I'm finished' and for it to be belittled as being simply intolerant is a pretty bizarre and hurtful take.

I actively chose to limit contact with a toxic person because it was hugely detrimental to me and my life, but that decision is not ok with some people purely because she and I shared some DNA and because she was a little old lady?

I understand the reasons that people keep family in their lives even where they have despicable views, but those who choose not to should not be derided.

Tht's a different position though. You aretalking about someone who is toxic and had a negative detrimental effect on yourself. That's not the situation the OP is describing.

@DeJaDont

My eldest son was recently convicted of sharing child abuse images. My friends and family have expressed nothing but absolute sympathy for me and at no point judged me for his actions. They all fully expected me to stay in touch with him and continue to support him as he's my son and he clearly needs it.

That doesn't mean I haven't hugely struggled with reviving my love for him with his horrendous actions/behaviour. But he's my son. You need better friends.

This is a really interesting scenario, I wonder if all the people saying OP should cut their dad off, would also cut their children off if they were to do or think bad things. Also, you have my sympathies, horrible position to be in but completely understandable to support him as he is still your son

This is a v depressing thread. There's a huge difference between having bigoted opinions or using outdated language, voicing them in private within four walls to family or close friends, and taking it further to insult individuals face to face, or shout slogans on marches, or physically attacking them whether one to one or in a gang.

Freedom of speech is too important. 'I disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it' is a core principle that should not be lightly thrown away. Nazi Germany, the cultural revolution in China, life under a Soviet regime where having a different opinion was a passport to a gulag are object lessons we should learn from.

My grandmother disapproved of the way more and more people from other races were moving into her neighbourhood, completely changing its character. Otoh, she had a cordial relationship with her black neighbour. He cut her hedge. She gave his dc sweets. The fact that she referred to him as 'coloured' was neither here not there. She thought she was being polite. I'd hazard a guess that the two of them did more for race relations than the attitude of some of the shunners on here.

@NothingSafe

I'd find it hard to be friends with someone who - through inaction - condoned that kind of view. I wouldn't be close to anyone who held such abhorrent views - I haven't seen my very similar grandfather since I was 16 and old enough to decide I didn't want a relationship with him, because by sitting silently when he started one of his disgusting conversation topics was letting him think it was okay. Even disagreeing with him, but then going to visit the next week was implicitly condoning it. So I stopped.

Your dad's a horrible bigot. If you can sit by and separate that out, that's your choice. I couldn't, and lots of people couldn't. I don't think your friend is out of order, to be honest.

Do you think that stopping seeing him made ANY difference to his behaviour? Dop you think it helped in any shape or form anyone who suffers from racism?

Ostracising people has never been helpful in changing minds and hearts.
What helps in seeing changes are OUR daily actions, in particular in front of people who are racist/bigoted/xenophobe etc.. The more we can be an example, the better.

And of course, that's before you even go into the fact that unless the person in front of you is a total arse, they will have ALSO very good sides to them.

@niceandwarming

I want to start this post off by saying I don't condone any of my Dad's views in any shape of form.

My Dad and I have an ok relationship, I am in my mid 20's but he has a lot views which are absolutely disgusting. First off he is racist, openly thinks black people have what he calls a "chip on their shoulder", I heard him once refer to a disabled person using the r word, thinks people who are going to clubs and getting spiked is their own fault as their drunk. Calls gay people "Queers".

My friend has said she judges me for staying in contact and having a relationship with him.

Would you do the same?

I think it is totally your decision whether to have a relationship with him.

Saying that I can see why she judge your for staying in contact. If I was your friend I'd probably like to be reassured that you have told your dad how despicable his views are and that your relationship with him is very different as a result, but I wouldn't judge you for having some sort of relationship.

@Thymeout

This is a v depressing thread. There's a huge difference between having bigoted opinions or using outdated language, voicing them in private within four walls to family or close friends, and taking it further to insult individuals face to face, or shout slogans on marches, or physically attacking them whether one to one or in a gang.

Freedom of speech is too important. 'I disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it' is a core principle that should not be lightly thrown away. Nazi Germany, the cultural revolution in China, life under a Soviet regime where having a different opinion was a passport to a gulag are object lessons we should learn from.

My grandmother disapproved of the way more and more people from other races were moving into her neighbourhood, completely changing its character. Otoh, she had a cordial relationship with her black neighbour. He cut her hedge. She gave his dc sweets. The fact that she referred to him as 'coloured' was neither here not there. She thought she was being polite. I'd hazard a guess that the two of them did more for race relations than the attitude of some of the shunners on here.

Wise words, but I don't judge the shunners. It is a simple action that makes a point and means you don't have to deal with appalling attitudes any more. But it doesn't make shunning some sort of incredibly moral and practically beneficial action.

@TravelLost totally agree with you, if you hate the person and they are just horrible in every way, then fine cut them off, but if they just have some opinions that maybe aren't the best, but are an otherwise nice person to be around, why cut them off just because you think seeing them = condoning their opinions? I'd be interested to know if any of the people saying that refuse to travel to the majority of the countries in the world because of the views (and often actions) of said country, or if they refuse to buy any fast fashion, or anything else that contributes or condones bad things that happen in the world