To argue that this should is not a suitable topic for the Girl Guides

[MovedByFanciesThatAreCurled]

Girlguiding is for girls, aged 10-14. So why then do they feel the need to promote this on their social media?

This week is #AceWeek - a time to raise awareness and understanding of the asexual community. So here’s a shout-out to all of our asexual volunteers and members – thank you for everything you do in Girlguiding.

The reference to ‘members’ is quite clear. What on earth were they thinking in making reference to young girls’ sex lives (or lack of them according to the focus of the Tweet). How, as an organisation, have they strayed so far? I have two boys in the Scouts/Beavers and if this came up on either of their social media pages I would pull them out. Why is it seen to be an acceptable for Girlguiding?!!

[quote MolkosTeenageAngst]@BloodinGutters

Aah okay. Yes my friends did start having crushes in primary school. I wouldn’t see it as sexual in that pre-teen children and young teens are unlikely to be wanting to move beyond kissing etc but equally I have always understood that the crushes of children are the type of attraction which will develop into sexual attraction once they reach adolescence/ sexual maturity. Many straight/ bi/ gay people se to say that they knew their sexuality from being pre-teens based on the crushes they had so I guess these crushes were more than platonic?

But again, as I have stated I have never had a crush and I don’t feel any type of attraction so I’m probably not the right person to ask these questions. Can you explain why you kissed girls despite being straight? Perhaps asexual people who engage in physical intimacy despite being asexual have similar motivations to your own when you engaged in an act many heterosexual people would only be able to imagine doing with members of the opposite sex?[/quote]
I did it to please boys. Normally when drunk or taking drugs. Because I was a reckless, easily influenced teenager.

It doesn’t feel any different than kissing a man (and it was a fair bit more than that) but I have never fallen in love with a woman. I only have fallen in love with men I trust implicitly, feel 100% safe with and have an emotional connection to. Which has only been a few. I don’t have any idea what a crush might be personally.

But you explained attraction as being something you couldn’t feel at all because you were asexual, followed by saying asexual people find partners through romantic attraction.

Which is contradictory.

Again, sexuality is which sex a person is attracted to. Not that the attraction must be exclusively sexual attraction or that there’s any way of defining what that attraction is and comparing.

The black and white definitions of sexuality isn’t the type of attraction, it’s the sex that we are attracted to. Humans are sexually dimorphic species. So the math means a person can be attracted to same sex, opposite sex, both sexes or none.

You can’t claim that being attracted to none also includes people who are romantically attracted to either or both sex also.

@lifeturnsonadime

Asexual people do not have to prove anything here. They are what they say they are and that is sufficient.

I'm pretty sure upthread you condemned us all for comparing this to trans issues.

It's identity politics. It's all part of the same thing.

Change the word Asexual for trans and suddenly lesbians have penises and any lesbian who doesn't want sex with one is the bigot. Don't pretend this is not happening.

Someone else upthread said that virgins are subject to ridicule. How on earth would someone know another person is a virgin unless they shared that information? Why do people need to know if other people are sexually active or not.

This whole agenda is problematic and it's homophobic and it does affect children, if you really think it doesn't you have your head massively in the sand.

People are who they say they are.

Jimmy Savile said he was nice uncle Jimmy. So he must have been then.

You can’t claim that being attracted to none also includes people who are romantically attracted to either or both sex also.

Are you gatekeeping asexuality?

If people can be sexually attracted but not romantically attracted then why can't you be romantically attracted but not sexually attracted? Plenty of women state that they love their husbands but are no longer sexually attracted to them, asexual people may feel like that but not be sexually attracted to anyone ever.

@Franca123

I think asexuals are just people. But they are people with a special label and flag who must never be questioned by those with no label and no flag.

Why are so many of them questioning us other asexuals then??

It's identity politics. It's all part of the same thing.

Change the word Asexual for trans and suddenly lesbians have penises and any lesbian who doesn't want sex with one is the bigot. Don't pretend this is not happening.

Someone else upthread said that virgins are subject to ridicule. How on earth would someone know another person is a virgin unless they shared that information? Why do people need to know if other people are sexually active or not.

This whole agenda is problematic and it's homophobic and it does affect children, if you really think it doesn't you have your head massively in the sand.

Is being heterosexual identity politics?

I'm sure nobody talks about their dating/relationship history with their friends in your world but in my world people discuss it. How is being asexual homophobic? Or are you using the trans debate again when we are discussing asexuality?

@BelleOfTheProvince

YANBU, it's the links to the kink community and what the hashtags lead you to online that make me uncomfortable for it to be promoted to girls in the guides age range. Things like this should be taught in school by trained professionals.

It's interesting because when teaching Oct you hav to be so careful. Pre research websites, pop ups, links etc. It's actually made Oct planning a right pain.

But non Ofsted inspected organisations get away with being very lax.

I mean, if I wanted a sacking I could update the school Twitter page similarly to guides. But in teaching we're made aware that's not an appropriate medium for such content.

Perhaps cats, working for the DfE could explain why teachers are held accountable but guiding leaders are not?

I mean, I would have thought that accountability kept children safe, but I'm just a lowly educator...

Oh no, @DockOTheBay claimed up thread that would never happen to a teacher doing this and that I’m over reacting.

So you’re safe to update school web page/Twitter and keep your job. So good to know she knew better than you huh?

Ahem, let us not forget the demisexuals which also are a part of the asexual umbrella. We can feel romantic and/or sexual attraction after the establishment of a close emotional bond.

We are part of this label too according to what I found when I was educating myself.

I don’t gatekeep. Anyone who says that they are under my umbrella are valid and welcome and I believe you.

But don’t discuss it with my children.

Why are so many of them questioning us other asexuals then??

Exactly. We must never be questioned...except for the 700+ posts on here questioning us, misunderstanding what asexuality is, conflating us with trans people, saying we don't exist and just want to be special, saying we are a safeguarding risk, saying that we are discussing our sex lives with kids, saying that because some of are sexually active the we are encouraging young girls to have sex with people they don't want to, saying that our experiences aren't true, discounting how hiding it away affected our mental health etc.

@TheKeatingFive

It communicates nothing about the sexuality part of it. Just that’s who we love.

I don't think that's true at all. There are many kinds of love. Love for a heterosexual partner is not the same as love for a friend/child/sibling and our society definitely makes a distinction there.

Yes it makes the distinction between love from family/friends and romantic love.

It doesn’t mean there’s a great big flashing sign saying SEX above the heads of all heterosexual couples, or any other type. So there’s zero reason to put big flashing signs saying NO SEX or NO SEXUAL ATTRACTION BUT STILL HAS SEX above anyone else’s head.

@TheKeatingFive

If you’re asexual (or demisexual like it turns out I am) and have a partner then it’s completely inappropriate to say here’s my partner but I’m asexual/demisexual same as it would be to say here’s my partner but I’m bisexual.

Not a single person on this thread is suggesting this.

However, what's wrong with acknowledging that some people never want a partnership with someone else.

Lots have. Lots have said that if kids ask at gg if they have a boyfriend/girlfriend they’d answer no because I’m asexual. As opposed to just saying nah I’m not interested in a relationship.

RTFT

[quote BloodinGutters]@TheOriginalEmu

And school pshe teaches that feeling any one of those, or two or three is either heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual.

Words have meanings. You can’t identify your way into a sexuality. It’s something you are or you aren’t. Matters not a fuck I don’t identify with asexuality because I don’t identify with heterosexuality- but I still am heterosexual.[/quote]
Words do have meanings, but those meanings can change and adapt over time. That’s linguistics 101.
I also never said you can ‘identify into a sexuality’. you can be both asexual and straight, or asexual and gay or bisexual. Or you can be asexual and none of those.
I am asexual, it matters not a fuck if you agree. It’s what I am.

@PumpkinGin

Ahem, let us not forget the demisexuals which also are a part of the asexual umbrella. We can feel romantic and/or sexual attraction after the establishment of a close emotional bond.

We are part of this label too according to what I found when I was educating myself.

I don’t gatekeep. Anyone who says that they are under my umbrella are valid and welcome and I believe you.

But don’t discuss it with my children.

Of course demisexuals are under the umbrella (but just wait for the people to misinterpret what it is and tell you that they're the same because they don't have sex with everyone they are attracted to, I've seen it on here before.)

Why is telling your kids that it's okay to not fancy anyone wrong?

Happy to engage in healthy debate but some of this feels like trying to pick apart every single word I have said, even when my meaning is clear even if the phrasing I’ve used was clumsy, just for the sake of it.

Sorry,Molkos, it wasn’t clear to me. Until today I was only aware of the first definition (well not that aware but it’s the one that makes sense) The second I only learned from this thread. I can try and have another read and see if I can understand.

It doesn’t mean there’s a great big flashing sign saying SEX above the heads of all heterosexual couples, or any other type. So there’s zero reason to put big flashing signs saying NO SEX or NO SEXUAL ATTRACTION BUT STILL HAS SEX above anyone else’s head.

Did anyone say it did?

Our society makes a clear distinction between the special relationship with a partner and relationships with other people. Why can't we acknowledge that some people will never be interested in a special relationship with a partner?

But you explained attraction as being something you couldn’t feel at all because you were asexual, followed by saying asexual people find partners through romantic attraction.

I don’t speak for all asexual people. I am asexual and don’t feel attraction. That doesn’t mean no asexual people are capable of feeling attraction. I listed the ways in which some asexual people might choose a person to have sex with, one of which was the possibility of romantic attraction. I didn’t say all asexual people want to find people to have sex with (they don’t) and I didn’t say all asexual people feel romantic attraction (they don’t) or that the only reason an asexual person might have sex with another person is due to romantic attraction (it isn’t). I feel like you are deliberately failing to recognise that not all asexual people feel or think about sex or relationships in exactly the same way as each other (just as not all straight people view sex and relationships in the same way) and so the way I feel isn't a benchmark for asexuality. I am just one person who only discovered asexuality a few years ago, I’m not part of any asexual community, I’ve not explicitly told anybody in my real life I am asexual, I have no idea or interest in what the asexual flag looks like, I have never used the term ‘ACE’ in relation to myself or others. Sorry if I have come across like I have all the answers because I really don’t, I only truly know my own experience which is that I don’t feel sexual attraction or feelings, my knowledge of how other asexual people feel is only from reading a handful of blogs/ articles written by other asexual women in trying to understand myself. If you are interested in the many variations of asexuality you would probably be better to explore some of these accounts yourself rather than ask me as I feel like I have explained my own feelings as best I can and my attempts to explain second-hand how I have read other people experience asexuality are clearly coming across as clumsy and confusing which is probably not helpful and not my intention.

As stated several times before the definition of asexual is as follows: a person who has no sexual feelings or desires, OR who is not sexually attracted to anyone.

I feel that I fit into that because I don’t have sexual feelings or desires and I’m not sexually attracted to others. I can’t speak for how other asexual people come to the conclusion that they fit within it or whether those conclusions are valid and I’m not sure it is right that I keep trying to do so because it is clearly not helping, whether because some posters are wilfully choosing not to reflect on or hear what I am saying, because they are deliberately try to trip me up/ be pedantic or because what I am saying does not make sense to them. I’m sure it doesn’t really matter why what I’m saying isn’t having any effect on people’s understanding of this but I genuinely feel like I have said everything I can say and put more of my vulnerabilities out here to be picked apart than, in hindsight, I should probably be comfortable with and I feel like I am just having to repeat and reiterate myself to posters who can’t tell the difference between speaking as a single asexual person and speaking for all asexual people, which I have never tried to do.

Lots have said that if kids ask at gg if they have a boyfriend/girlfriend they’d answer no because I’m asexual. As opposed to just saying nah I’m not interested in a relationship.

Who are these 'lots'?

And what are you basing this conclusion on? Is it written policy? Or is it just a handy bit of heresay?

Lots have. Lots have said that if kids ask at gg if they have a boyfriend/girlfriend they’d answer no because I’m asexual. As opposed to just saying nah I’m not interested in a relationship.

RTFT

Would you object to someone replying to someone asking if they have a boyfriend with "No, I'm gay?" or "No, I like girls"

Or a child asking if someone has a girlfriend with "No, I'm straight." or "No, I like boys."

@slashlover

You can’t claim that being attracted to none also includes people who are romantically attracted to either or both sex also.

Are you gatekeeping asexuality?

If people can be sexually attracted but not romantically attracted then why can't you be romantically attracted but not sexually attracted? Plenty of women state that they love their husbands but are no longer sexually attracted to them, asexual people may feel like that but not be sexually attracted to anyone ever.

They can.

Have you read nothing I’ve said or are you being deliberately obtuse.

I don’t feel sexually or romantically attracted to anyone ever. I can fall in love and enjoy sex and feel a strong, almost overwhelming, pull to a man once I trust him completely.

Schools use the definition of being emotionally, romantically or sexually attracted to a person of the opposite sex to be heterosexual, and so on.

It’s pp who was claiming she doesn’t feel any attraction to anyone as being how she knows she is asexual and that other asexual people can feel romantic attraction.

If they feel romantic attraction or emotional attraction like I do, then schools definitions mean they are straight gay or bi.

The meanings of words gate-keep what they mean I’m afraid. That’s just fact.

Why is telling your kids that it's okay to not fancy anyone wrong?
That's fine.
It's age appropriate and lacks the nuance understanding that children would need to understand asexual.

Just to reiterate. In ks1 and 2 relationships and orientations are taught through family units and ideas of love, respect and diversity.

There's no need to go any further than a family can have two daddies, one mummy or just be grandad.

It's about holding all relationships, rightly, as the nurturing units they are.

We don't really teach sex acts and asexual seems to be less about relationships and more about sex.

So it won't come up in the curriculum. Well aside from acknowledging single parents etc.
This is the only acknowledgment in ks2 and younger any sexuality gets. We don't do endless lessons on what particular sex likes or dislikes people have. It's very practical, mainly periods and physical explanations.

So one would assume GG should follow this model too. If GG want to do their own version of sex education they need to go through the proper channels so it can be modelled correctly.

@TheKeatingFive

Lots have said that if kids ask at gg if they have a boyfriend/girlfriend they’d answer no because I’m asexual. As opposed to just saying nah I’m not interested in a relationship.

Who are these 'lots'?

And what are you basing this conclusion on? Is it written policy? Or is it just a handy bit of heresay?

RTFT and you can find all their names. I can’t recall everything I need to spoon feed you.

I tend to base safeguarding decisions on safeguarding laws and policies.

HTH

@BelleOfTheProvince except that Girl Guiding also covers KS3 and 4 so the organisation doesnt just deal with small children. I dont think they need to provide sex education but I do think age appropriate discussion can go slightly further than you are implying.

I have a question... to those asexuals who do have sex...

How do you decide who you are gonna have sex with? Is this where the "x-romantic" comes into the equation? Or is that something else again?

@PumpkinGin

Ahem, let us not forget the demisexuals which also are a part of the asexual umbrella. We can feel romantic and/or sexual attraction after the establishment of a close emotional bond.

We are part of this label too according to what I found when I was educating myself.

I don’t gatekeep. Anyone who says that they are under my umbrella are valid and welcome and I believe you.

But don’t discuss it with my children.

On reflection I think I am somewhere in between asexual and demisexual.

I don’t exactly ever feel sexually attracted to someone, so should be asexual, but I can feel strongly physically attracted to hugging them. I feel a strong emotional pull once in love, which only happens with the trust required for Demisexuality. I most definitely feel very into sex, but it isn’t directly correlated to the above I don’t think.

Gosh this is confusing. I need a new sparkly label to explain my complex sexuality.