To argue that this should is not a suitable topic for the Girl Guides

[MovedByFanciesThatAreCurled]

Girlguiding is for girls, aged 10-14. So why then do they feel the need to promote this on their social media?

This week is #AceWeek - a time to raise awareness and understanding of the asexual community. So here’s a shout-out to all of our asexual volunteers and members – thank you for everything you do in Girlguiding.

The reference to ‘members’ is quite clear. What on earth were they thinking in making reference to young girls’ sex lives (or lack of them according to the focus of the Tweet). How, as an organisation, have they strayed so far? I have two boys in the Scouts/Beavers and if this came up on either of their social media pages I would pull them out. Why is it seen to be an acceptable for Girlguiding?!!

This is not shark jumping. It is stonewall.

@PumpkinGin

If a child centred organisation tweets something, this is likely to be discussed in the meetings.

I don’t think that sexual discussions should be had between random adults and children. I don’t care which sexual orientations it concerns. It is an inappropriate discussion.

And for the posters telling me to educate myself. I have. Here is a link.

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/327272

It appears asexuality is a broad umbrella which includes demisexual people. That is people who only feels a sexual attraction after an emotional bond has been established. That is me. I have now discovered that I am asexual and apparently I have a label.

I am speaking as a member of the asexual community and I ask that people stop discussing my sexual orientation with children.

Me too. Only with men though. Does that make me a demiheterosexual or hetrodemisexual?

Personally I’d just say I’m an introvert with trust issues from csa, but sexuality is innate so I must be what ever letter of the alphabet soup stonewall et al tell me.

Cause that wouldn’t have fucked with my head as a kid.

It's not shark jumping

It's illogical garbage.

Why can't you say that some people don't ever want to be in a partnership with others.

Of course you can; I’m sure all children know single people including those not looking for a relationship (like my 5 unmarried aunts I mentioned earlier). If we stopped assuming everyone is having sex, then not being in a partnership is not so baffling.

However, this thread has moved on and from it I’ve learned that asexuals can be in loving partnerships with people they are having sex with except the don’t feel sexual attraction to their partner.

@CecilyP

That’s why the description says OR and not and. So two types of people may fall within the asexual bracket:

1. People who have no sexual feelings or desires (including sexual attraction, a desire to have sex etc, although these people may still desire a relationship which does not involve sex)

2. People who are not sexually attracted to anyone (but may or may not still have sexual feelings and desires which they may choose to satisfy either with masturbation or with another person, whether in or out of a relationship)

Some asexual people such as myself fit both definitions but others may only fit into one.

So are you saying you are 2 types of people?

No I’m not saying I’m two types of people. I feel like everything I am saying is being unnecessarily picked apart, I’m writing on my phone and admit I’m not proof-reading everything but I’m not submitting a thesis, I’m not expecting every turn of phrase to be pulled apart and I’m pretty sure you can understand what I mean from what I have written. I don’t understand why you are being so pedantic? I am just a normal woman who is having her sexuality pulled apart and labelled as disgusting, predatory, a step towards grooming, being a snowflake etc. I am not an academic, I don’t claim to be an expert or to speak for all asexuals, I am just trying to explain that I exist and how it feels for me and felt growing up and therefore how it might feel for others. Happy to engage in healthy debate but some of this feels like trying to pick apart every single word I have said, even when my meaning is clear even if the phrasing I’ve used was clumsy, just for the sake of it.

To re-phrase. There are two definitions of asexuality and asexual people may fit into one or both of the definitions. Just fitting one half of the definition is seen as as valid as fitting both.

No, I think they can feel sexual attraction to people too.

I’ve learned that asexuals can be in loving partnerships with people they are having sex with except the don’t feel sexual attraction to their partner.

Yes they can.

That's probably true of a lot of heterosexual people also though. Every sexual orientation can be complex.

you don’t think acknowledging alternative ways of being is the right thing to do?

Of course it is the right thing. Of course parents should educate their children. Of course alternative ways of being should be brought into the PSHE curriculum.

My point is that it should always be made in a very controlled way, under safeguarding standards. By parents or the school - or maybe a specific organisation where parents know what will be taught.

I don’t think it is right to normalise any sexual discussion between random adults and children. I don’t want my children (8 and 10) discussing sexualities with their piano teacher, their football coach, their English teacher, the school librarian, the GG volunteer or a random mum/dad.

Once children think it is normal to discuss sexual orientations and sex with many different adults, it is easier for other adults to initiate such a conversation. Not all adults are trustworthy.

I think asexuals are just people. But they are people with a special label and flag who must never be questioned by those with no label and no flag.

How so?

Your opening gambit was this

Change the word Asexual for trans

Why would you do that, they are totally different situations?

@Franca123

If I identify as demi sexual which is the a subset of asexual, can I start telling people what they are and aren't allowed to question *@catsandhens* ?

But sexuality is innate, not something we can identify into or out of.

I listed all the many ways I fall under this category up thread. Doesn’t matter I don’t identify with it because I don’t identify with being straight either.

We are born this way. So we are born entitled to tell people to shut up talking for our group identity.

Only we say shut up about it to kids, some of other ace people say yes tell kids it this way, some say tell them but explain it this way, some say don’t explain it just tell them. And so on.

If only people with professional backgrounds in child development and safeguarding would get together and decide on guidance about how this should be approached with kids.

If someone says they are agender or asexual we must believe them and it cannot be questioned. Even if, in the case of lesbians, it harms us.

Apologies a typo, should have said if someone says they are trans or asexual .

@Kljnmw3459

But I don't think it's harmful to have the information available out there so youngsters can feel that they're not alone.

Children (girls as this is gg being discussed) shouldn’t feel alone with not feeling sexual attraction and still having sex anyways.

My point is that it should always be made in a very controlled way, under safeguarding standards. By parents or the school - or maybe a specific organisation where parents know what will be taught.

Why do people not acknowledge that heterosexual norms are not communicated in this way at all, they are simply the fabric of the world we live in?

So heterosexuality is literally everywhere you look, yet you don't think we should be mentioning the existence of another orientation without being 'controlled' and 'under safeguarding'.

No wonder people like that posters poor husband end up self harming.

@TheKeatingFive

How so?

Your opening gambit was this

Change the word Asexual for trans

Why would you do that, they are totally different situations?

Identity politics.

All part of Stonewall ideology. Completely connected.

YANBU, it's the links to the kink community and what the hashtags lead you to online that make me uncomfortable for it to be promoted to girls in the guides age range. Things like this should be taught in school by trained professionals.

It's interesting because when teaching Oct you hav to be so careful. Pre research websites, pop ups, links etc. It's actually made Oct planning a right pain.

But non Ofsted inspected organisations get away with being very lax.

I mean, if I wanted a sacking I could update the school Twitter page similarly to guides. But in teaching we're made aware that's not an appropriate medium for such content.

Perhaps cats, working for the DfE could explain why teachers are held accountable but guiding leaders are not?

I mean, I would have thought that accountability kept children safe, but I'm just a lowly educator...

Identity politics.

All part of Stonewall ideology. Completely connected.

You're not actually making an argument there.

@jb7445

My husband is asexual and from a very reserved, conservative family who don't discuss these things. Maybe if he had been told that how he felt was normal as a young teen he wouldn't be covered in self harm scars all over his arms, legs and torso. Asexuality is probably the least discussed and least understood sexuality and I cannot see what is wrong with letting teens know that there isn't something wrong with them if they identify that way.

It’s the least discussed?

Really?

Not pansexual, omnisexual, demisexual, sexually fluid or questioning?

Ict not Oct

For people who are saying no one needs to know the details of peoples sexuality you sure are asking a whole lot of questions about peoples sexuality hmm

In normal life, I wouldn’t care, but on this thread people have come on to to say things that don’t seem to make sense. Hence all the extra questions.

@jb7445

My husband is asexual and from a very reserved, conservative family who don't discuss these things. Maybe if he had been told that how he felt was normal as a young teen he wouldn't be covered in self harm scars all over his arms, legs and torso. Asexuality is probably the least discussed and least understood sexuality and I cannot see what is wrong with letting teens know that there isn't something wrong with them if they identify that way.

That’s how I feel as well jb7445, that if I had known there wasn’t anything wrong with me as a teen maybe I would be a happier and better adjusted adult. I started self-harming in my teens and it’s something I haven’t been able to overcome yet and it’s another thing I feel shame for and which makes me feel like a less legitimate adult for still coping in this way alongside feeling illegitimate for not having a relationship or children etc. I felt so abnormal as a teen and in my twenties and even with now that I have awareness of what asexuality is and that I’m not the only person to feel this way it is hard to get past the self loathing and the feeling that I must be broken and defective. I wish that I had had some awareness of asexuality as a teen and wonder how my life would have been if my mental health wasn’t as far damaged when I discovered I wasn’t alone.

@TheKeatingFive

Yes. I think any tweet about sexual orientation should be off bounds for children’s organisation.

And yet their whole cultural and societal universe communicates the norms of heterosexuality to them from toddlerhood. You don't think acknowledging alternative ways of being might be a helpful thing to do?

It communicates nothing about the sexuality part of it.

Just that’s who we love. Totally good to say you don’t have or want a partner. If you’re asexual (or demisexual like it turns out I am) and have a partner then it’s completely inappropriate to say here’s my partner but I’m asexual/demisexual same as it would be to say here’s my partner but I’m bisexual.

It communicates nothing about the sexuality part of it. Just that’s who we love.

I don't think that's true at all. There are many kinds of love. Love for a heterosexual partner is not the same as love for a friend/child/sibling and our society definitely makes a distinction there.

If you’re asexual (or demisexual like it turns out I am) and have a partner then it’s completely inappropriate to say here’s my partner but I’m asexual/demisexual same as it would be to say here’s my partner but I’m bisexual.

Not a single person on this thread is suggesting this.

However, what's wrong with acknowledging that some people never want a partnership with someone else.