To argue that this should is not a suitable topic for the Girl Guides

[MovedByFanciesThatAreCurled]

Girlguiding is for girls, aged 10-14. So why then do they feel the need to promote this on their social media?

This week is #AceWeek - a time to raise awareness and understanding of the asexual community. So here’s a shout-out to all of our asexual volunteers and members – thank you for everything you do in Girlguiding.

The reference to ‘members’ is quite clear. What on earth were they thinking in making reference to young girls’ sex lives (or lack of them according to the focus of the Tweet). How, as an organisation, have they strayed so far? I have two boys in the Scouts/Beavers and if this came up on either of their social media pages I would pull them out. Why is it seen to be an acceptable for Girlguiding?!!

@MolkosTeenageAngst

I don’t speak for all asexual people.

I think this is very important point.

We each have our own experiences, I'm aroromantic asexual so I obviously know my feelings and not those of heteroromantic asexuals, but if someone chooses to call themselves that then I respect it. There is no test that they have to pass to call themselves asexual.

It would be like it someone said they were heterosexual and were asked to prove it and also to explain every facet of heterosexuality to other people. Or if someone said they couldn't call themselves heterosexual because they had sex with a woman once. That it was a safeguarding issue because a man could say he identifies as straight to get access to abuse little boys.

@slashlover

Why are so many of them questioning us other asexuals then??

Exactly. We must never be questioned...except for the 700+ posts on here questioning us, misunderstanding what asexuality is, conflating us with trans people, saying we don't exist and just want to be special, saying we are a safeguarding risk, saying that we are discussing our sex lives with kids, saying that because some of are sexually active the we are encouraging young girls to have sex with people they don't want to, saying that our experiences aren't true, discounting how hiding it away affected our mental health etc.

No sacred castes.

Safeguarding 101.

[quote Porcupineintherough]@BelleOfTheProvince except that Girl Guiding also covers KS3 and 4 so the organisation doesnt just deal with small children. I dont think they need to provide sex education but I do think age appropriate discussion can go slightly further than you are implying.[/quote]
But as I said previously, the age ranges are mixed which makes it more difficult to ensure appropriate content.

My area is ks2 so I know what is suitable for that age.

@TheKeatingFive

It doesn’t mean there’s a great big flashing sign saying SEX above the heads of all heterosexual couples, or any other type. So there’s zero reason to put big flashing signs saying NO SEX or NO SEXUAL ATTRACTION BUT STILL HAS SEX above anyone else’s head.

Did anyone say it did?

Our society makes a clear distinction between the special relationship with a partner and relationships with other people. Why can't we acknowledge that some people will never be interested in a special relationship with a partner?

I’ve said, as have many of us, repeatedly that it’s completely good to say no boyfriend/girlfriend and never want one. We’ve just said leave the very vague label of asexuality outside of gg. Same way the leader who is a lesbian shouldn’t be saying yeah I’ve a girlfriend because I’m a lesbian. They should just be saying I have/want a girlfriend. The rest shouldn’t be brought up with kids at gg.

We’ve just said leave the very vague label of asexuality outside of gg. Same way the leader who is a lesbian shouldn’t be saying yeah I’ve a girlfriend because I’m a lesbian. They should just be saying I have/want a girlfriend. The rest shouldn’t be brought up with kids at gg.

So its just official language markers you have an issue with?

Seems a bit strange. Why?

We don't really teach sex acts and asexual seems to be less about relationships and more about sex.

My sex education was very much about how your body will change and you will develop these feelings and when you want to have sex. Two minutes about how those feelings develop at a different rate for everybody and might not kick in at all for some people, would have saved me years of angst.

I was also told about the PIV sex act.

@MolkosTeenageAngst

But you explained attraction as being something you couldn’t feel at all because you were asexual, followed by saying asexual people find partners through romantic attraction.

I don’t speak for all asexual people. I am asexual and don’t feel attraction. That doesn’t mean no asexual people are capable of feeling attraction. I listed the ways in which some asexual people might choose a person to have sex with, one of which was the possibility of romantic attraction. I didn’t say all asexual people want to find people to have sex with (they don’t) and I didn’t say all asexual people feel romantic attraction (they don’t) or that the only reason an asexual person might have sex with another person is due to romantic attraction (it isn’t). I feel like you are deliberately failing to recognise that not all asexual people feel or think about sex or relationships in exactly the same way as each other (just as not all straight people view sex and relationships in the same way) and so the way I feel isn't a benchmark for asexuality. I am just one person who only discovered asexuality a few years ago, I’m not part of any asexual community, I’ve not explicitly told anybody in my real life I am asexual, I have no idea or interest in what the asexual flag looks like, I have never used the term ‘ACE’ in relation to myself or others. Sorry if I have come across like I have all the answers because I really don’t, I only truly know my own experience which is that I don’t feel sexual attraction or feelings, my knowledge of how other asexual people feel is only from reading a handful of blogs/ articles written by other asexual women in trying to understand myself. If you are interested in the many variations of asexuality you would probably be better to explore some of these accounts yourself rather than ask me as I feel like I have explained my own feelings as best I can and my attempts to explain second-hand how I have read other people experience asexuality are clearly coming across as clumsy and confusing which is probably not helpful and not my intention.

As stated several times before the definition of asexual is as follows: a person who has no sexual feelings or desires, OR who is not sexually attracted to anyone.

I feel that I fit into that because I don’t have sexual feelings or desires and I’m not sexually attracted to others. I can’t speak for how other asexual people come to the conclusion that they fit within it or whether those conclusions are valid and I’m not sure it is right that I keep trying to do so because it is clearly not helping, whether because some posters are wilfully choosing not to reflect on or hear what I am saying, because they are deliberately try to trip me up/ be pedantic or because what I am saying does not make sense to them. I’m sure it doesn’t really matter why what I’m saying isn’t having any effect on people’s understanding of this but I genuinely feel like I have said everything I can say and put more of my vulnerabilities out here to be picked apart than, in hindsight, I should probably be comfortable with and I feel like I am just having to repeat and reiterate myself to posters who can’t tell the difference between speaking as a single asexual person and speaking for all asexual people, which I have never tried to do.

No one thinks or feels the same as others about relationships.

But sexuality is clear because it’s based on what sex a person is attracted to. And sex are clear cut categories.

If you feel the absence of any type of attraction that’s fine. But that’s not the same category as someone who only feels emotional or romantic attraction to same or opposite or both sexes. And kids don’t need their heads fucked over that. Girls especially don’t need any more social pressure to accept that having sex with someone they aren’t attracted to is a positive thing. So leave it out of gg the same way schools have to follow d of e and will have ofsted down their necks if they don’t.

[quote jb7445]@BloodinGutters yes. I think it's the least discussed, least acknowledged. Because sexuality is generally about sex and sexual feelings, not about the fact that some people just don't have that feelings.

It's anecdotal obviously but when my formerly lesbian (and extremely woke) friend came out as non-binary I confided in them that my husband was asexual. Their response was that he maybe just hadn't met the right girl yet (we were engaged at the time ffs). I do think it's very misunderstood.

I don't know if GG is the right forum but I assume they wouldn't be going into detail - for a confused teen it might make all the difference to just know that how they are is not wrong or weird.[/quote]
So you’ve came across a lot of people discussing their demisexuality or their sexual fluidity or their omnisexualilty or pansexuality then?

@slashlover

We don't really teach sex acts and asexual seems to be less about relationships and more about sex.

My sex education was very much about how your body will change and you will develop these feelings and when you want to have sex. Two minutes about how those feelings develop at a different rate for everybody and might not kick in at all for some people, would have saved me years of angst.

A teacher isn't going to be able to confidently deliver that due to not having a medical background. Any child having real significantly different experience of puberty is a GP remit.

@slashlover

I was also told about the PIV sex act.

Not in primary. That's ks3.

@BelleOfTheProvince not for my kids. They covered the mechanics in Y6.

They may do conception in uks2 very briefly for obvious reasons. Nothing is graphic. It's very boring and scientific.

[quote slashlover]@MolkosTeenageAngst

I don’t speak for all asexual people.

I think this is very important point.

We each have our own experiences, I'm aroromantic asexual so I obviously know my feelings and not those of heteroromantic asexuals, but if someone chooses to call themselves that then I respect it. There is no test that they have to pass to call themselves asexual.

It would be like it someone said they were heterosexual and were asked to prove it and also to explain every facet of heterosexuality to other people. Or if someone said they couldn't call themselves heterosexual because they had sex with a woman once. That it was a safeguarding issue because a man could say he identifies as straight to get access to abuse little boys.[/quote]
I’ll explain it. It means opposite sex attracted.

That’s how pshe guidance categorises it, how equality act does, how every dictionary there is does.

I have zero fucking idea what others feel in terms of attraction, I can’t really even pin down what attraction is to me after talking about it all these pages, but I know we are all exclusively opposite sex attracted.

Because that’s what sexuality means. Which SEX you are attracted to, but exactly what that attraction looks like or what you choose to do with it. Just what it is. What that attraction looks like and what people do about it is called PREFERENCE which is very different from ORIENTATION. Sexuality = orientation, not preference.

Again, young girls do not need to get the message that if they don’t feel attraction they can still be having sex and that’s ok. Every aspect of female socialisation is already geared up to condition them to think that.

It's very dry and practical. It's also full of might language as puberty is a rough timeline.

*I have a question... to those asexuals who do have sex...

How do you decide who you are gonna have sex with? Is this where the "x-romantic" comes into the equation? Or is that something else again?*

I have had sex in the past. Mostly when I was younger there wasn’t much decision making involved, I would go out, get drunk, get on the dance floor in the hope that someone would be drawn to me and then go home with the first man to show me interest. I was just looking for any man who wouldn’t think me totally disgusting (because I thought I was disgusting) and who I wouldn’t have to see again afterwards (because I thought my not liking sex meant I was bad at it and that if I had sex with someone I knew they would humiliate me afterwards by telling everyone I was bad in bed). Obviously that wasn’t very healthy and I’m not advocating that.

I did have a boyfriend though who I think I did genuinely love, although in hindsight probably only platonically. We were very close friends, we spent a lot of time together, had fun and would stay at each other’s houses and sleep cuddled up. To me it was only platonic and I would never have taken it further but I can see why he was getting mixed messages and one day we were in bed and he kissed me. I didn’t particularly like or want it but I had never had a boyfriend and knew that made me stand out and I did want some aspects of a relationship so I kissed him back. There was never any physical/ sexual attraction on my part and mostly the sex was horrible but occasionally it was tolerable because I did love him and wanted to make him happy and I was fairly well practised in disassociating from sex.

I don’t like the feeling of having my genitals touched, I have tried to masturbate before and found touching myself there deeply unpleasant which is probably why I was never able to do more than tolerate sex and mostly hate it, but I can understand how for someone who wanted and enjoyed sexual contact they might have been able to start a relationship in the same way I started my relationship; with a close friend who you felt love for and who you enjoyed spending time with and who was interested in you. I was able to put myself through a 3 year relationship even though 99% of the time I hated the sex because outside of the sex I did enjoy his company so for someone who doesn’t feel sexual attraction but enjoys the feeling of sex I think I can understand how they could end up in a relationship in a similar way.

Bloodingutters they don’t use Facebook either (it’s for old people apparently).
The poster who said her niece had discussed it at Guides said she’d said to leader she didn’t fancy boys or girls, leader had said that’s fine at her age and to chat to someone she trusted so she had (her Auntie) Unless I’ve missed another post. So not raised by Guides or openly discussed.
No one is saying share this with the girls. I barely use Twitter and didn’t even follow gg until today. I’d had no idea of tweet until this thread. From lots of replies on here you’d think there had been an edict to scrap everything and teach asexuality this week.
We play games, do crafts, cooking, outdoor activities, campfires. Chats usually consist of them telling us about school, hobbies, fun places they have been etc.
Yes a girl 13+ could see it on social media if they follow girl guiding and ask about it but it’s a world away from being actively taught about it and discussed which lots are implying.
One girl commenting she had a boyfriend (age 13 like her) has been extent of relationships/sex discussed at ours this term. The thought we are somehow indoctrinating them is so far from the truth. It’s lovely to see the girls just being girls and playing and enjoying activities.

As a complete OT side note-that’s nosey & obnoxious as fuck- but are those of you who are teachers/education staff on holidays currently?

I’m in England & my kids just went back after half term today & I would not be impressed if they do this much mn at work.

Super curious Adhd brain here.

@slashlover

I was also told about the PIV sex act.

Sex education covers puberty and how babies are made.

Relationships education covers different type of families and relationships.

Maternity leave. But all schools back here.

It’s v easy to look up the d of e guidance on pshe and the plan your pshe curriculum guidance also @slashlover

Because that’s what sexuality means. Which SEX you are attracted to, but exactly what that attraction looks like or what you choose to do with it. Just what it is. What that attraction looks like and what people do about it is called PREFERENCE which is very different from ORIENTATION. Sexuality = orientation, not preference.

Yes. But people on here have explicitly stated that an asexual person cannot be asexual if they have sex, even if they are not sexually attracted to the person.

Again, young girls do not need to get the message that if they don’t feel attraction they can still be having sex and that’s ok. Every aspect of female socialisation is already geared up to condition them to think that.

So we don't mention asexuality and let the asexual kids think there's something wrong with them?

Not in primary. That's ks3.

So if a 12 year old is getting the sex talk at school then you'd be ok with them mentioning asexuality?

@bloodingutters

I’m a teacher but I had to go into work last week during half term (LAC meeting which couldn’t be rescheduled and which I had to travel out of county for meaning it took a whole day) and so I was given today off in lieu.

Bloodingutters I’m not in education but a lot of schools near us have inset today (sensible to tack this side of half term with Halloween) or a lot of teachers are part time.

@BelleOfTheProvince

They may do conception in uks2 very briefly for obvious reasons. Nothing is graphic. It's very boring and scientific.

This. It does cover that is how babies are made, but it doesn’t cover erections or lube or contraception etc. That stuff is secondary. And that includes contraception for homosexual couples.

Pshe always sign posts where to go to get help, who else to talk to- like drs etc.