To argue that this should is not a suitable topic for the Girl Guides

[MovedByFanciesThatAreCurled]

Girlguiding is for girls, aged 10-14. So why then do they feel the need to promote this on their social media?

This week is #AceWeek - a time to raise awareness and understanding of the asexual community. So here’s a shout-out to all of our asexual volunteers and members – thank you for everything you do in Girlguiding.

The reference to ‘members’ is quite clear. What on earth were they thinking in making reference to young girls’ sex lives (or lack of them according to the focus of the Tweet). How, as an organisation, have they strayed so far? I have two boys in the Scouts/Beavers and if this came up on either of their social media pages I would pull them out. Why is it seen to be an acceptable for Girlguiding?!!

It’s a tweet on an adult platform not a lesson plan to discuss this week. Lots of our Guides didn’t know what Twitter was and none of our Guides used it. We are baking this week!
Girlguiding isn’t just 10-14. Most of the girls in my daughter’s Rangers (14-18) are over age of consent, working part time etc.
I don’t know relationship status/sexuality of other leader and don’t discuss mine. I don’t wear a ring but I may possibly have mentioned husband in conversation. It’s not something we would actively discuss.

If a child centred organisation tweets something, this is likely to be discussed in the meetings.

I don’t think that sexual discussions should be had between random adults and children. I don’t care which sexual orientations it concerns. It is an inappropriate discussion.

And for the posters telling me to educate myself. I have. Here is a link.

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/327272

It appears asexuality is a broad umbrella which includes demisexual people. That is people who only feels a sexual attraction after an emotional bond has been established. That is me. I have now discovered that I am asexual and apparently I have a label.

I am speaking as a member of the asexual community and I ask that people stop discussing my sexual orientation with children.

I'm baffled by the notion that mentioning the word "asexual" is tantamount to grooming and a huge safeguarding concern.

The only way you'd get to this kind of leap is if you had on some level decided that asexuality is wrong and suspect.

Which doesn't make any logical sense whatsoever, but the world's a strange place.

I don’t think that sexual discussions should be had between random adults and children.

If it had been a tweet about Pride, would you have had an issue?

But I don't think it's harmful to have the information available out there so youngsters can feel that they're not alone.

[quote MolkosTeenageAngst]@BloodinGutters

Sorry, I wasn’t trying to offend you or suggest that you don’t know your own identity or to misconstrue what you were saying. Apologies if I misunderstood your excitement at the words of writers as a crush, I wasn’t meaning a crush in a sexual sense at all but I suppose as something more than platonic. My friends first started talking about having crushes in primary school so my assumption is a crush isn’t always sexual, but equally is something more than platonic, but it sounds like that wasn’t what you meant or I’ve misunderstood/ over analysed it.

I think if you identify as straight then you are straight and that, like all sexualities, there is probably a spectrum. You’re right that I don’t think there is a legal definition of asexual (and I’m not aware of what the legal definitions of straight/ gay etc are) and so it’s open to interpretation and I imagine like with all sexualities the exact definition of what it means to fall within it may vary a bit between others. I was only expressing my definition of what I take being asexual to mean but accept other people who also identify in the same way may feel differently or that there will be people who fit my definition or the definition of others who don’t identify as asexual.

Obviously there is no test for sexuality and it isn’t black and white so it’s not possible to categorise everybody, and nor should we try to. I find asexuality had been a helpful label in understanding why I have never had crushes, why I didn’t have relationships growing up and why I’ve never enjoyed sex and in beginning to frame myself as something other than abnormal but that doesn’t mean I think anybody else has to label themselves as such or that I would profess to be an expert. Sorry if it came across like that.[/quote]
@MolkosTeenageAngst

You said your friends started having crushes at primary school so you didn’t equate that as sexual.

So a crush can be attraction but not sexual attraction according to you.

Thing is, it isn't a sexual discussion. It's an acknowledgement that other ways of being exist outside of heterosexual norms. And yes, that's important to highlight because our entire societal set up reflects heterosexual norms and children are exposed to them every single day from their earliest years. Yet no one ever makes a fuss about these 'sexual discussions'.

It's not comparable to normalising same sex relationships, which can be presented to children as simply about who you love. Announcing that you're "asexual" is about sex (or lack of it), which is nobody's business except your own. Do we have to continually "celebrate" everyone's individual sexual quirks? And involve children? No thank you.

It's not comparable to normalising same sex relationships, which can be presented to children as simply about who you love.

Why can't you say that some people don't ever want to be in a partnership with others.

Why's that so threatening?

Maybe if he had been told that how he felt was normal as a young teen he wouldn't be covered in self harm scars all over his arms, legs and torso.

Gosh that's so sad. Your poor husband.

@DockOTheBay

Well I’ve just read through the pshe policy of one of the secondary schools we will be using next year and the ofsted report on their pshe policy.

Having clear definitions of words that kids bring up is very relevant to how they were assessed.

And I currently have a complaint in at primary about this now, with board of governors and MAT seniors. About to go to formal grievance/ofsted next.

So possibly will be fining out shortly if that would have, but judging by the criteria secondary were assessed on this it’s highly likely primary will be in big trouble if this happens.

if it had been a tweet about pride would you have had an issue?

Yes. I think any tweet about sexual orientation should be off bounds for children’s organisation.

And, as I found out when “educating myself”, I am apparently demisexual which falls under the asexual umbrella. I am saying that discussions about my own sexual orientation should be off bounds for children.

If I identify as demi sexual which is the a subset of asexual, can I start telling people what they are and aren't allowed to question @catsandhens ?

@DockOTheBay

I'm baffled by the notion that mentioning the word "asexual" is tantamount to grooming and a huge safeguarding concern. Again, many assumptions and huge leaps in logic from "one girl asked what asexuality is and was given an age appropriate definition" to "all guide leaders are grooming kids by telling them you can have sex without consent". Please do show me the logical, non hyperbolic steps from one to the other.

Go ask d of e & ofsted to explain it to you then.

Yes. I think any tweet about sexual orientation should be off bounds for children’s organisation.

And yet their whole cultural and societal universe communicates the norms of heterosexuality to them from toddlerhood. You don't think acknowledging alternative ways of being might be a helpful thing to do?

That’s why the description says OR and not and. So two types of people may fall within the asexual bracket:

1. People who have no sexual feelings or desires (including sexual attraction, a desire to have sex etc, although these people may still desire a relationship which does not involve sex)

2. People who are not sexually attracted to anyone (but may or may not still have sexual feelings and desires which they may choose to satisfy either with masturbation or with another person, whether in or out of a relationship)

Some asexual people such as myself fit both definitions but others may only fit into one.

So are you saying you are 2 types of people?

@BloodinGutters

Aah okay. Yes my friends did start having crushes in primary school. I wouldn’t see it as sexual in that pre-teen children and young teens are unlikely to be wanting to move beyond kissing etc but equally I have always understood that the crushes of children are the type of attraction which will develop into sexual attraction once they reach adolescence/ sexual maturity. Many straight/ bi/ gay people se to say that they knew their sexuality from being pre-teens based on the crushes they had so I guess these crushes were more than platonic?

But again, as I have stated I have never had a crush and I don’t feel any type of attraction so I’m probably not the right person to ask these questions. Can you explain why you kissed girls despite being straight? Perhaps asexual people who engage in physical intimacy despite being asexual have similar motivations to your own when you engaged in an act many heterosexual people would only be able to imagine doing with members of the opposite sex?

Asexual people do not have to prove anything here. They are what they say they are and that is sufficient.

I'm pretty sure upthread you condemned us all for comparing this to trans issues.

It's identity politics. It's all part of the same thing.

Change the word Asexual for trans and suddenly lesbians have penises and any lesbian who doesn't want sex with one is the bigot. Don't pretend this is not happening.

Someone else upthread said that virgins are subject to ridicule. How on earth would someone know another person is a virgin unless they shared that information? Why do people need to know if other people are sexually active or not.

This whole agenda is problematic and it's homophobic and it does affect children, if you really think it doesn't you have your head massively in the sand.

@Franca123

I'm so sick of people making up a label, getting themselves a flag and then telling everyone else what they are and aren't allowed to say. I have children and I will question what they are being exposed to. I don't care that you are 'asexual', I will still question what you are teaching my children. This is exactly how the scandal in the Catholic Church happened.

Imagine appropriating the language (pride) of lgb people and co-opting it for this vague ‘everyone’s an individual struggle’.

How insanely fucking insensitive and callous.

People who were refused housing/jobs/the right to marry and faced physical attacks and harassment and actual discrimination having their experience equated to the trauma of not being able to say oh new actress on telly last night was fit eh?

@Franca123 I posted a link about asexual people which includes demisexual people above.

My understanding is that we both can speak as members of this community.

@jb7445 I am beyond sorry for your husband. I hope that he is doing better now. He seems to be a specific subset of asexual people, the umbrella seems quite wide.

It is always good to have a societal awareness of issues people find traumatic. But some issues should not be discussed with children by random adults. It should be brought up by parents or in PSHE under safeguarding supervision.

@Dixiechickonhols

It’s a tweet on an adult platform not a lesson plan to discuss this week. Lots of our Guides didn’t know what Twitter was and none of our Guides used it. We are baking this week! Girlguiding isn’t just 10-14. Most of the girls in my daughter’s Rangers (14-18) are over age of consent, working part time etc. I don’t know relationship status/sexuality of other leader and don’t discuss mine. I don’t wear a ring but I may possibly have mentioned husband in conversation. It’s not something we would actively discuss.

It’s on fb too, and one poster has already said it was openly discussed in her local gg group.

Change the word Asexual for trans and suddenly lesbians have penises and any lesbian who doesn't want sex with one is the bigot. Don't pretend this is not happening.

Jesus the shark jumping here is insane.

This makes no sense whatsoever

YANBU, it's the links to the kink community and what the hashtags lead you to online that make me uncomfortable for it to be promoted to girls in the guides age range. Things like this should be taught in school by trained professionals.

@TheKeatingFive

Change the word Asexual for trans and suddenly lesbians have penises and any lesbian who doesn't want sex with one is the bigot. Don't pretend this is not happening.

Jesus the shark jumping here is insane.

This makes no sense whatsoever

It's not shark jumping -

See this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4388567-Enthusiastic-Consent-I-am-confused?watched=1&msgid=112122985#112122985

All part of the Stonewall 'identity' agenda.

No thank you.