To argue that this should is not a suitable topic for the Girl Guides

[MovedByFanciesThatAreCurled]

Girlguiding is for girls, aged 10-14. So why then do they feel the need to promote this on their social media?

This week is #AceWeek - a time to raise awareness and understanding of the asexual community. So here’s a shout-out to all of our asexual volunteers and members – thank you for everything you do in Girlguiding.

The reference to ‘members’ is quite clear. What on earth were they thinking in making reference to young girls’ sex lives (or lack of them according to the focus of the Tweet). How, as an organisation, have they strayed so far? I have two boys in the Scouts/Beavers and if this came up on either of their social media pages I would pull them out. Why is it seen to be an acceptable for Girlguiding?!!

Children most definitely not understand nuance.

They understand clear boundaries straight forward language with which they can name material reality. Safeguarding 101.

According to @Ozanj it does happen in class @DockOTheBay

Did you miss that post a couple of pages ago?

*You said asexual people don’t feel attraction.

Then you later said they find a partner by who they are romantically attracted to.*

Asexual people don’t feel sexual attraction. My understanding is that some may or may not feel other types of attraction. Personally I don’t so I’m not an expert on that and I’m certainly not saying all asexual people find a partner based on who they are romantically attracted to, lots of asexual people don’t feel romantic attraction either. Maybe in your eyes the asexual people who feel romantic attraction aren’t asexual and you would put that under the same umbrella as sexual attraction and class them as gay/ straight/ bi based on who they feel romantic attraction towards and I’m not an expert in how to define attraction of sexuality etc so I’m not going to argue with that. As I have said I am asexual in the sense that I don’t have sexual feelings or attraction towards others and personally I don’t want a relationship, I’m not sure I particularly understand how it feels for asexuals who experience different feelings to me any more than you can understand how it feels for straight women who are attracted to celebrities etc.

I only know my own experience and you are trying to get into the nitty gritty of different kind of asexual relationships and of course there is not going to be one distinct definition, just as I could try and unpick exactly how a straight person can be straight if they have a threesome with their partner and a member of the same sex. I don’t know why the specifics of how some asexual people might choose to conduct sex and relationships are so important in terms of picking apart the definition when nobody would do the same for the definition of heterosexual, saying well what about people who have threesomes and what about those who have experimented with kissing members of the same sex and what about those who are celibate etc. I’m sure there are some heterosexual people who couldn’t imagine ever having a threesome with a person of the same sex or kissing a person of the same sex and others who couldn’t ever imagine being celibate but it doesn’t mean those who have engaged in those practices are no longer heterosexual. The fact that some people within any sexuality engage in sexual practices that are confusing or at odds with what other people would understand the sexuality to mean doesn’t mean that the whole definition of that sexuality is dangerous, false or shameful.

@BloodinGutters

Again - sexuality is which sex a person feels attracted to. Schools elaborate attracted to mean emotionally, romantically or sexually attracted to. It doesn’t mean sexuality only means being sexually attracted to those sexes. I only understand the emotional attraction, despite being able to fall in love and desire/enjoy sex, and I most definitely have zero need to dress that up as asexuality with a rainbow ribbon on top.

Nobody is asking you to. If the term doesn’t work for you that’s fine, for others it does and that’s also fine. There are, as I said, various terms within the umbrella of asexuality, they are more specific than the general term. Under that umbrella there are people who do not experience emotional, romantic or sexual attraction, there are others that feel 2 out of the 3, there are others who only feel one out of the three, they all are ‘missing’ at sexual attraction and that is what makes them asexual.

I joined the guides to have FUN, popcorn parties, team games, learning to cook etc.
Leave education to the schools not ill equipped volunteers. Let the kids have FUN

@BloodinGutters

Children most definitely not understand nuance.

They understand clear boundaries straight forward language with which they can name material reality. Safeguarding 101.

Of course they are capable, certainly by their teens, of understanding life is not black and white. But to start with when they are young people ‘not feeling attraction to any other person is ok and valid’ is enough. The rest can come later when they are more equipped to deal with it.

@MolkosTeenageAngst

*You said asexual people don’t feel attraction.

Then you later said they find a partner by who they are romantically attracted to.*

Asexual people don’t feel sexual attraction. My understanding is that some may or may not feel other types of attraction. Personally I don’t so I’m not an expert on that and I’m certainly not saying all asexual people find a partner based on who they are romantically attracted to, lots of asexual people don’t feel romantic attraction either. Maybe in your eyes the asexual people who feel romantic attraction aren’t asexual and you would put that under the same umbrella as sexual attraction and class them as gay/ straight/ bi based on who they feel romantic attraction towards and I’m not an expert in how to define attraction of sexuality etc so I’m not going to argue with that. As I have said I am asexual in the sense that I don’t have sexual feelings or attraction towards others and personally I don’t want a relationship, I’m not sure I particularly understand how it feels for asexuals who experience different feelings to me any more than you can understand how it feels for straight women who are attracted to celebrities etc.

I only know my own experience and you are trying to get into the nitty gritty of different kind of asexual relationships and of course there is not going to be one distinct definition, just as I could try and unpick exactly how a straight person can be straight if they have a threesome with their partner and a member of the same sex. I don’t know why the specifics of how some asexual people might choose to conduct sex and relationships are so important in terms of picking apart the definition when nobody would do the same for the definition of heterosexual, saying well what about people who have threesomes and what about those who have experimented with kissing members of the same sex and what about those who are celibate etc. I’m sure there are some heterosexual people who couldn’t imagine ever having a threesome with a person of the same sex or kissing a person of the same sex and others who couldn’t ever imagine being celibate but it doesn’t mean those who have engaged in those practices are no longer heterosexual. The fact that some people within any sexuality engage in sexual practices that are confusing or at odds with what other people would understand the sexuality to mean doesn’t mean that the whole definition of that sexuality is dangerous, false or shameful.

You referenced having a friend crush as attraction. You said very young kids have crushes long before they feel sexual attraction.

That’s what you said and said you couldn’t understand that because you don’t understand attraction. Any attraction.

You the said asexual people can feel romantically attracted to someone.

So romantic attraction is not attraction but friend crushes are?

@DockOTheBay we have a poster here who says they do discuss female sexuality (including asexual) at GG. When the girls are aged 10.

A tweet from an organisation which is there for children, talking about any sexuality is wrong in my opinion. Such a tweet is likely to be asked questions about and discussed in meeting. It seems that it indeed is discussed in meetings 10 year olds attend.

That is my whole point. If awareness needs to be raised about sexual orientations in society, that is a completely different point. It seems it should. But stay away from children.

TheOriginalEmu
@BloodinGutters romantic feelings and sexual attraction are not the same thing.
But pp said asexuality for her is being unable to feel any attraction to people, which includes romantic attraction*

Then she did a 180 and said asexual people find a partner by being romantically attracted to someone

FOR HER. that’s what it means for her. She is not all asexual people. Some, like me, do sometimes experience romantic love.

@Acheyknees

I joined the guides to have FUN, popcorn parties, team games, learning to cook etc. Leave education to the schools not ill equipped volunteers. Let the kids have FUN

Kids now join to validate the leader's lifestyles. They're just part of the backdrop to the incredibly complex and interesting inner lives of the adults around them.

@TheOriginalEmu

And school pshe teaches that feeling any one of those, or two or three is either heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual.

Words have meanings. You can’t identify your way into a sexuality. It’s something you are or you aren’t. Matters not a fuck I don’t identify with asexuality because I don’t identify with heterosexuality- but I still am heterosexual.

@Acheyknees

I joined the guides to have FUN, popcorn parties, team games, learning to cook etc. Leave education to the schools not ill equipped volunteers. Let the kids have FUN

I'm not sure why knowing there are asexual people in the world should prevent a teenager having fun any more than knowing that heterosexual, homosexual and bisexual people exist. I dont think you need a detailed discussion of who might want to do what to whom in which circumstances to acknowledge that simple fact.

I get really irritated by how this thread has brought out a flood of heterosexual women to tell asexual people how they are doing asexualness wrong

You know how black women are not responsible for educating white women on how to not be racist, or women dont have to do all the mental work to explain sexism to men.

How about asexual people don't have to explain themselves to hetro/homosexual people whilst that hetro/homosexual people try to catch them out and build insinuations from the tiniest of infections.

Asexual people do not have to prove anything here. They are what they say they are and that is sufficient.

If you really think a tweet by an organisation means that is what is being discussed in their meetings then by all means complain to them, report them etc

But dont expect asexual people to tie themselves up in knots to answer increasingly intrusive questions about how they feel when they do or dont have sex etc. For people who are saying no one needs to know the details of peoples sexuality you sure are asking a whole lot of questions about peoples sexuality

@TheOriginalEmu

Oh so you are explaining this to young kids then? Because you said it doesn’t come up in class then you say saying not being attracted to people is valid is how you’d explain to young kids. That you’d save the ‘nuance’ for older kids.

So which is it? Does this come up in classes or not? Because @Ozanj gave an account of how it came up in her daughter/nieces class -can’t recall which - and you’ve conviniently skipped that one

@BloodinGutters

According to *@Ozanj it does happen in class @DockOTheBay*

Did you miss that post a couple of pages ago?

Yes obviously I haven't read in detail every post over 28 pages (I'm not interested in back and forth about what asexuality constitutes) Its not something which is officially discussed "in class" and sanctioned by GG - as in its not part of the official programme. If one leader goes off topic and decides to talk about it, that's on them.

Kids now join to validate the leader's lifestyles. They're just part of the backdrop to the incredibly complex and interesting inner lives of the adults around them.
For goodness sake. I think this thread just jumped the shark.

@catsandhens

I get really irritated by how this thread has brought out a flood of heterosexual women to tell asexual people how they are doing asexualness wrong

You know how black women are not responsible for educating white women on how to not be racist, or women dont have to do all the mental work to explain sexism to men.

How about asexual people don't have to explain themselves to hetro/homosexual people whilst that hetro/homosexual people try to catch them out and build insinuations from the tiniest of infections.

Asexual people do not have to prove anything here. They are what they say they are and that is sufficient.

If you really think a tweet by an organisation means that is what is being discussed in their meetings then by all means complain to them, report them etc

But dont expect asexual people to tie themselves up in knots to answer increasingly intrusive questions about how they feel when they do or dont have sex etc. For people who are saying no one needs to know the details of peoples sexuality you sure are asking a whole lot of questions about peoples sexuality

But @Ozanj

Just gave her account up thread of how it is discussed in class. Are you saying she’s lying?

Should heterosexual women have no input into safeguarding laws and policies then? Because I think you’ll find most women are heterosexual and we have a say in what’s taught to our kids about ANY topic.

No sacred castes. Safeguarding 101.

@BloodinGutters

I honestly have no idea what a ‘friend crush’ is and am pretty sure I have not used the term anywhere else in this thread. Perhaps that was somebody else?

As I’ve said I’m not the expert in asexual attraction and am not trying to do. Some people say they are asexual and also say they feel romantic attraction. I don’t know how they are defining what that means to them so I can’t really explain it in any more detail than I have already done.

You have said you kissed girls when you were younger but that you are straight. Presumably that means you didn’t feel attraction towards them (or you would be bisexual?) but your desire to kiss them came from some other sort of motivation. Perhaps the asexual people who are physically intimate with other people even though they don’t feel attraction come at it with similar motivations to those which enable straight people to engage in practices such as same sex kissing or threesomes etc?

Can you explain in detail why some heterosexual people are happy to kiss or have sex with people of the same sex who they are presumably not attracted to and, if not, why do you expect me to be able to do the same for asexual people when I have clearly stated I don’t feel that way myself?.

@BloodinGutters

Thats not what I am saying if you actually read my post.

Just gave her account up thread of how it is discussed in class. Are you saying she’s lying?

Asked and answered by me:

If you really think a tweet by an organisation means that is what is being discussed in their meetings then by all means complain to them, report them etc

I also read Ozjan's to imply that the child brought the subject up, which is impossible to police. However you can use that as proof it is discussed in your complaint if you so wish.

Should heterosexual women have no input into safeguarding laws and policies then? Because I think you’ll find most women are heterosexual and we have a say in what’s taught to our kids about ANY topic.

Is entirely irrelevant to my comment which is about hetro/homosexual people are subjecting asexual people on this thread to an inquisition on their sex lives as an asexual person. Try for a little critical reading please

@DockOTheBay so when one teacher breaching schools safeguarding policies that’s just on them and we should care?

When this happens and ofsted and possibly the police come in school need to show how they implement every policy was air tight. I’m very sure if schools were posting on their website/Twitter etc about celebrating asexuality lead to one teacher thinking this was ok to discuss in class ofsted would fail schools on safeguarding grounds.

*shouldn’t care

[quote BloodinGutters]@DockOTheBay so when one teacher breaching schools safeguarding policies that’s just on them and we should care?

When this happens and ofsted and possibly the police come in school need to show how they implement every policy was air tight. I’m very sure if schools were posting on their website/Twitter etc about celebrating asexuality lead to one teacher thinking this was ok to discuss in class ofsted would fail schools on safeguarding grounds.[/quote]
Would that happen if a teacher mentioned that asexuality existed? I don't think so.

I'm baffled by the notion that mentioning the word "asexual" is tantamount to grooming and a huge safeguarding concern. Again, many assumptions and huge leaps in logic from "one girl asked what asexuality is and was given an age appropriate definition" to "all guide leaders are grooming kids by telling them you can have sex without consent". Please do show me the logical, non hyperbolic steps from one to the other.

I'm so sick of people making up a label, getting themselves a flag and then telling everyone else what they are and aren't allowed to say. I have children and I will question what they are being exposed to. I don't care that you are 'asexual', I will still question what you are teaching my children. This is exactly how the scandal in the Catholic Church happened.

I don't think it's unusual for a 10-14 year old to have no sexual attraction yet. Are they asexual? I don't know.

How many of us are grey-asexuals/greysexuals or demi-sexuals?