To argue that this should is not a suitable topic for the Girl Guides

[MovedByFanciesThatAreCurled]

Girlguiding is for girls, aged 10-14. So why then do they feel the need to promote this on their social media?

This week is #AceWeek - a time to raise awareness and understanding of the asexual community. So here’s a shout-out to all of our asexual volunteers and members – thank you for everything you do in Girlguiding.

The reference to ‘members’ is quite clear. What on earth were they thinking in making reference to young girls’ sex lives (or lack of them according to the focus of the Tweet). How, as an organisation, have they strayed so far? I have two boys in the Scouts/Beavers and if this came up on either of their social media pages I would pull them out. Why is it seen to be an acceptable for Girlguiding?!!

It is confusing! If you have sexual desire but not sexual attraction, how do you choose the person with whom to fulfil desire?

Usually in a loving relationship. Or masturbation.

Even more confused now! What’s masturbation got to do with it? Also, if you found someone you love and you want to have sex with them, it’s odd that you aren’t sexually attracted to them.

[quote catsandhens]@TubeOfSmarties

I'm concerned by this comment. People (adults) aren't allowed to be open about their sexuality now? They have to stay in some kind of closet if they work with kids?

No just the ones who don't fit the heterosexual norm apparently[/quote]
Good to know we're sliding further and further back. This country is a scary place.

I wanna know the woke label is for a tired post-menopausal formerly heterosexual woman who can't understand what the fuss and bother was all about because men now look like slugs and a bed all to oneself with sensible cotton nighties is the real heaven?

Oh - asking for a friend, naturally.

It would be much more valuable to be teaching girls about dealing with relationships both male/female instead of types of sexuality.

recognising the different types of abuse.
avoiding predatory men
navigating relationships
championing women
confidence
goal setting
making friends

@YetAnotherSpartacus

I wanna know the woke label is for a tired post-menopausal formerly heterosexual woman who can't understand what the fuss and bother was all about because men now look like slugs and a bed all to oneself with sensible cotton nighties is the real heaven?

If only we knew of this bliss in our youth!

No flags for any of that RantyAunty

@WiseUpJanetWeiss

It's not conflated with total lack of interest in sex. It's the label for a sexual orientation. Asexuality is a spectrum. People on here are conflating it with a total lack of interest in sex.

Well it is. PP have stated that some asexual people have no interest in sex.

However, if they are wrong, perhaps you can tell me the “label” for someone who has no interest in sex.

You can be heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual and have no interest in sex. There are countless threads on here about married couples who haven’t had sex in years or even decades because one or both of the partners no longer has an interest in sex. It doesn’t mean those people are asexual.

I guess if you really need a term for people who have no interest in having sex you could use terms like celibate or people with no libido etc. Using asexual wouldn’t be accurate considering many people who are sexless by choice are in marriages or other long term relationships where they assumedly once felt desire and sexual attraction?

@nolongersurprised

People (adults) aren't allowed to be open about their sexuality now?

Actually, I don’t want to know that even though Jane from accounts regularly shags her husband she has never experienced sexual attraction to anyone.

And if Jane was my primary aged child’s teacher and telling them this I’d call the police.

Put simply : Jane talking about her husband/partner/girlfriend whatever - fine.

Jane talking about sexual feelings (or lack of) - not fine. Including at work. I don’t actually care

Saying "I'm gay / asexual / straight / bisexual / etc" is not the same as Jane giving TMI about the details of her sex life.

A Brownie leader saying on a FB post "I am asexual" does not equate to her giving details of her sex life. Or anyone else's.

You need to recognise where reality ends and your imagination begins.

[quote Ozanj]@coronawireless

Nope. She thinks she’s Asexual because her friends have already started talking about how attractive other boys or girls are and she has never understood it. Girlguiding made her realise it’s normal to feel like that and she emerged a lot happier.

Locally also do workshop on periods and give girls sanitation packs along with straightforward diagrammed instructions on how to use tampons which even schools don’t do. Girlguiding can be a really useful resource for girls.[/quote]
I never really understood what others mean by people being attractive. I fall in love with who a man is, and only after I can feel safe enough to trust him. Which for me is a lot due to csa. I like and desire sex, but I’m not sold it’s based on physical attraction. I’m also someone who notices very little about what people look like also though, I never remember or recognise faces. I couldn’t estimate heights or weights. I rarely notice when people loose weight or get a hair cut that isn’t super dramatic change. I’m not a very physical oriented person in any sense, so it might just be that. I remember every detail of what people say though, or what I read. I feel a strong emotional pull to people, but only after I know I can trust them and it’s maybe something I notice because my starting point is a strong emotional pull away from people. Never really understood romance of any sort, but I do understand love.

I’m just just straight though.

@slashlover

This is utter, utter bollocks. Asexual has a definition. You can’t just re-write the dictionary and appropriate it to your own purposes.

I’m out.

Again, for the ACTUAL dictionary.

noun
a person who has no sexual feelings or desires, or who is not sexually attracted to anyone.

But lots of pps have said asexual people do have sexual desires and at least one has said they find a partner by who they are romantically attracted to.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

I wanna know the woke label is for a tired post-menopausal formerly heterosexual woman who can't understand what the fuss and bother was all about because men now look like slugs and a bed all to oneself with sensible cotton nighties is the real heaven?

I would like to know the term for a super exhausted mother whose preteens still don’t sleep, who has severe pain issues and badly feels the cold so needs thick thermal layers, fluffy slippers and robe, duvets & hot water bottles and arthritis gloves over night, but who still likes wearing lacy silky underwear underneath just because.

Once I know that term then I should be fine to expect everyone to be aware and to embrace my sexuality right? It would be discrimination if you all didn’t!

@BloodinGutters

TheOriginalEmu
@BloodinGutters you can give enthusiastic consent without feeling sexual attraction

NO. This is a terrible awful message to be giving children

What you have just said is a groomers' charter and it's really really disturbing that you refuse to see that

I wasn’t saying you should say that to children. I quite clearly said that I would NOT discuss sex in relation to asexuality any more than I would discuss sex in relation to being straight or gay. So I’m not refusing to see anything, that is such a small part of the experience of relatively few asexual people that it’s not necessary to discuss it in a basic ‘asexuality exists and is ok’ with young people.

@NotBadConsidering

Not sexual desire, sexual ATTRACTION. They are not the same thing.

I suppose if you have no experience of asexuality it might seem confusing. Education will help thay

It’s defined by lack of sexual attraction or desire! And it’s ironic you acknowledge it might seem confusing, but seem to think it’s a reasonable topic for children. How do you explain this to children when you or anyone else can’t convey its meaning adequately to adults?

Explain how you would safely get the meaning of this:

you can give enthusiastic consent without feeling sexual attraction.

to a child aged 12 without leading them to a pathway of confusion.

I wouldn’t tell that to a 12 year old. I clearly stated that I would not. It’s not necessary to tell them that as part of a basic discussion of asexuality.

Asexuality is defined by a lack of sexual attraction. In some that also is a lack of sexual desire, but not always. Children are capable of understanding nuance, lack of knowledge on what asexual means is what causes the confusion, not the topic itself, and like anything else, explanation and discussion makes it less confusing.

@BloodinGutters

That’s why the description says OR and not and. So two types of people may fall within the asexual bracket:

1. People who have no sexual feelings or desires (including sexual attraction, a desire to have sex etc, although these people may still desire a relationship which does not involve sex)

1. People who are not sexually attracted to anyone (but may or may not still have sexual feelings and desires which they may choose to satisfy either with masturbation or with another person, whether in or out of a relationship)

Some asexual people such as myself fit both definitions but others may only fit into one.

Obviously when discussing asexuality with children/ younger teens there is no need to elaborate as much as I have done in the brackets anymore than it is necessary to elaborate on bisexuality and how some bisexual people despite being attracted to both sexes may still only have sex with women. The finer details of how adults within the sexuality may conduct their sexual relationships aren’t relevant to younger teens but the basic existence of those of us who don’t fit the definition of heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual is.

@BelleOfTheProvince

I'd just like to point out if this discussion was being had in school by adults in real time several posters would have been reported for safeguarding concerns.

That is just fact. I'm trained to spot them. They're there in plain sight here though.

And the poster who was abused should be relieved that safeguarding has improved tremendously since they were at school. I'm sorry signs were missed but very few staff had the robust safeguarding experience all staff should have nowadays. Funny enough when I was a leader in girl guides I realised how lax it was partly because I had a concern they tried to bury. I reported it to social services anyway and things started happening for that child.

But yeah, tell me I'm pearl clutching, hand wringing and wrong. Except I have flagged up abuse and neglect numerous times and have been right. But even if I wasn't you should know that the safeguarding philosophy is you report even if unsure. So the people expressing concern in the truest sense here are following safeguarding procedure. Hand waiving away is not a safeguarding tool.

I'm going to complain to girl guides myself and look up their whistle blowing policy. All the information I had on it was internal but I assume there's an external route to deal with it.
I'd encourage anyone who has similar concerns to do the same. And not just for this.

I just want to make it clear that of you have concerns about a child at any time you should always report it. Safeguarding works by catching everything and filtering out the nothing. It can't work by just looking for obvious things. It's about building up a picture.

What safeguarding concerns? Genuine question.

@CecilyP

Not sexual desire, sexual ATTRACTION. They are not the same thing. I suppose if you have no experience of asexuality it might seem confusing. Education will help

It is confusing! If you have sexual desire but not sexual attraction, how do you choose the person with whom to fulfil desire?

You might not choose to satisfy with a person but by yourself. You can feel romantic love for a person and choose to have sex with that person without that sexual attraction.

I was married and I loved my husband, I loved spending time with him and I liked being close to him…but I just didn’t want to have sex.

[quote MolkosTeenageAngst]@BloodinGutters

That’s why the description says OR and not and. So two types of people may fall within the asexual bracket:

1. People who have no sexual feelings or desires (including sexual attraction, a desire to have sex etc, although these people may still desire a relationship which does not involve sex)

1. People who are not sexually attracted to anyone (but may or may not still have sexual feelings and desires which they may choose to satisfy either with masturbation or with another person, whether in or out of a relationship)

Some asexual people such as myself fit both definitions but others may only fit into one.

Obviously when discussing asexuality with children/ younger teens there is no need to elaborate as much as I have done in the brackets anymore than it is necessary to elaborate on bisexuality and how some bisexual people despite being attracted to both sexes may still only have sex with women. The finer details of how adults within the sexuality may conduct their sexual relationships aren’t relevant to younger teens but the basic existence of those of us who don’t fit the definition of heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual is.[/quote]
You said asexual people don’t feel attraction.

Then you later said they find a partner by who they are romantically attracted to.

@WiseUpJanetWeiss

Not sexual desire, sexual ATTRACTION. They are not the same thing. I suppose if you have no experience of asexuality it might seem confusing. Education will help thay.

The dictionary definition of asexual is “without sexual attraction or feelings”.

This is the meaning that will be understood by most people. It’s more than a bit disingenuous to use a long standing definition and attach another meaning to it without qualification. What is the motivation here? Why don’t people who experience no sexual desire or feelings get their own word?

Within the asexual umbrella there are a number of other terms, so those who don’t have any sexual attraction or feeling do have a word, as do those who sometimes have sex. I’m not sure what you mean by ‘what is the motivation?’…there isn’t one other than to give asexual people a community where they don’t feel alone?

@BloodinGutters romantic feelings and sexual attraction are not the same thing.

Again - sexuality is which sex a person feels attracted to. Schools elaborate attracted to mean emotionally, romantically or sexually attracted to. It doesn’t mean sexuality only means being sexually attracted to those sexes. I only understand the emotional attraction, despite being able to fall in love and desire/enjoy sex, and I most definitely have zero need to dress that up as asexuality with a rainbow ribbon on top.

This is the same as the trans stuff. It's where logic comes to die. If you're in anyway a critical thinker, give up trying to understand this now.

[quote TheOriginalEmu]@BloodinGutters romantic feelings and sexual attraction are not the same thing.[/quote]
But pp said asexuality for her is being unable to feel any attraction to people, which includes romantic attraction.

Then she did a 180 and said asexual people find a partner by being romantically attracted to someone.

@PumpkinGin

If my child told me that an adult has discussed sex with them and that it was possible to consent to sex without sexual attraction I would call the police too.

Adults should not discuss sex with children.

What if random colleague John came up to me at the coffee machine and said

“hey Pumpkin, how are you doing? Do you know that it is possible to happily consent to sex without being sexually attracted the potential partner?”

I am not sure what I would do. I would not say “that is so interesting, thank you for telling me”. If John was my boss, I would be quite uncomfortable.

A child should never have this conversation with an adult.

I agree that is would be inappropriate.

However I don't see how it relates to this thread at all? Given that this is regarding a tweet and Facebook page, and is nothing about an adult having a conversation with a child about asexuality. That hasn't happened.

I don't see how some people are making these huge jumps and assumptions from "GG acknowledge that they have some asexual volunteers" to "guide leaders are actively discussing consent issues with their young members "