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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Shocked at how terrible the NHS is nowadays

342 replies

ConfusedBoobs · 29/10/2021 19:13

I had a mammogram a month ago that showed I have calcifications that they don't think are cancer but they won't know for sure until after I've had a biopsy. Today I found out that the biopsy can't be prioritised as urgent and so will still be another month away. AIBU to think it's terrible to leave people in limbo like this?

OP posts:
Andwander · 30/10/2021 05:09

Go private,if you can.The NHS is kaputt,broken.I dont expect to ever see a GP ever again.I am thinking of getting private insurance.All the best for you,it must be so stressful time for you.

NadiaVulvokov · 30/10/2021 05:21

Few years back I was three month wait for biopsy, three month wait for result. Thankfully it was negative but if it hadn’t been, the cancer is at least six months further on before you start treatment.

I agree the NHS is being thrown under the bus to pave the way for privatisation.

I also think there could be better ways to organise things, life example integrated centres where you self refer, the mammogram is looked at right away and then any further investigations (e.g. ultrasound/biopsy) are done right away amd you get the results immediately. It’s how it’s done in Iceland:
American woman in Iceland finds breast lump

Wingingthis · 30/10/2021 05:27

I’m so sorry. I’m in a similar position where I’ve been told my 18mo dd could have various non cancerous tumours snd have been waiting 2 weeks so far and not even got an appointment date 😔

newstart1234 · 30/10/2021 05:52

Someone said the UK has the only free at the point of use system which is simply not true. Denmark has a free system for gps. But the gp gives a referral you then go to find a private provider that you like. Apart from some services like maternity which is like UK. Really inefficient compared to the UK nhs. You also pay for your prescriptions full price, again inefficient from financial perspective. The nhs has buying power that benefits us all. You pay higher taxes but I’ve never known a ‘waiting list’ for gp or other service. You just make an appointment at your convenience. Cancer survival rates are very good because of early diagnosis (which also is good for the purse strings).

The difference is people take responsibility because of cultural factors and don’t abuse the system like the nhs. Public health is excellent at preventing illness only possible because the government also takes responsibility seriously.

I think the nhs is the best system possible but it needs more money and responsible government and public.

newstart1234 · 30/10/2021 05:53

The danish government pay the bill for the private provider - it’s totally free for the patient.

itsgettingwierd · 30/10/2021 06:16

I got referred to gynae under urgent in April.

The consultant triaged it as routine.

Urgent was a 3 months wait and routine 38 weeks!

I spoke to GP who expedited it. They said when they see patients and deal with them under primary care for years and then decide it's urgent that's because it is!

I saw them this week after 6 months wait.

Booked in for hysterectomy/ I have no idea how long I'll wait for that! I'm scared to ask!

knitnerd90 · 30/10/2021 06:20

Yes, the UK needs to pay more and it's needed to pay more for decades. That's precisely the issue. But turning everything into NHS vs. USA has obscured that debate for a long time. The NHS does not compare favourably for outcomes for many cancers.

I'd never advocate American style fees; as well as the cost the way they are done is very confusing. The UK has a higher proportion of healthcare costs paid via public sector than almost any other country, but the amounts (known as cost sharing) vary quite widely between countries. For example someone mentioned that in France a visit to a GP costs about 25€. That's what the health insurance allows as a normal fee. They pay 70% of that. You can pay the rest out of pocket, or you can take out supplementary insurance. If your income is below a certain amount, you receive what's called the CMU, which pays 100% of the normal fee. Some doctors choose to charge more than the scheduled fee, and you pay the gap between the normal fee and theirs--or some supplemental plans may pay it. For a whole host of chronic conditions, public insurance pays 70% (the French system is quite complicated).

Insurance doesn't necessarily mean a system like BUPA or the old American system (nowadays you can't be rejected for health reasons). In some countries everyone has to purchase insurance; it is subsidized and regulated, and everyone is accepted. The Netherlands does this, and Switzerland.

Meanwhile, Canadians are always shocked that in Britain you can jump the queue by paying, which is very limited in Canada (and to do it you have to give up being able to bill the province: no dual practices). But their system does not cover prescriptions or various things like outpatient physiotherapy.

Gwlondon · 30/10/2021 06:26

To be honest there is always waiting. We always had rationed healthcare it’s just we are noticing it at the moment.

I don’t believe the tories want to destroy the NHS - why would they? Doesn’t make sense as they will need it. It might be they are younger and don’t have as many reasons to use it yet. Cameron knew about the NHS because of his son yet he still got vilified.

I had a bad experience in June with a phone consultation with a locum GP. Went for a smear recently, the nurse doing my smear ordered me another blood test that was missing, booked me in with a healthcare assistant and the GP. Between the 3 of them they made up for the bad experience a few months ago. It’s the sort of condition that should have been face to face through the pandemic but wasn’t. But I think that’s the problem sometimes the nhs is too reliant on staff doing extra to cover for colleagues who don’t do enough.

Hang in there OP.

Starfish1021 · 30/10/2021 06:29

I do hope those that voted for the Tories are all getting what they voted for.

This with bells on

notanothertakeaway · 30/10/2021 06:47

Sorry for those who have had bad experiences

I recently went to the GP for a non urgent issue. I had two appointnents, and some hospital tests and the test results back, all within a week. I couldn't have asked for better

Knownbyanothername · 30/10/2021 06:53

The NHS employs 1.4million people! That is a massive percentage of the working population of the uk. It’s not just underfunded but horribly inefficient. There are multiple layers of middle management which are simply not needed. Just throwing more money at it is not the solution- it needs a complete overhaul.
Something has to be done about the GP system. This business of telephone appointments before being seen is a waste of everyone’s time because you end up using 2 appointment slots for each case needing seen, one for the call and one to actually be seen. How is that an efficient way of working? Massive overhaul is needed.

Superfoodie123 · 30/10/2021 07:10

I've had to go private as I dont want to live my life in sickness and NHS has let me down for years. A lot of people come to its defence but I honestly feel scared when my self or a family member needs its care. Such a shame.

Knownbyanothername · 30/10/2021 07:17

A quick google tells me there are around 250 vacancies in Scotland alone for NHS managers- most of those jobs offering a salary of 40-60k. That’s plus an employer contribution to a pension of around 14% each year. No doubt England will be similar
This is taxpayers money. Are people still happy for more money to ploughed in without reform?
And yes I know NHS Scotland is different from England but both are failing.

Pixxie7 · 30/10/2021 07:18

The nhs is in a crisis at the moment it has been abused for years through people’s unrealistic expectations. If people thought more about how they use it rather than expecting it to solve all their problems. I am sorry you are going through this but there are people far worse off.

Thewiseoneincognito · 30/10/2021 07:23

Whilst the option does seem logical, not everyone can afford Private, why should they have to when we already pay for the NHS with our taxes and NI? As others have said the worse this situation gets (and it will due to Covid) the more it plays into the hands of those who wish to ultimately Privatise the system.

I hope you get some resolution soon OP, I truly do.

Drinkyourweaklemondrink · 30/10/2021 07:25

I am so sorry you are going through this at the moment. It's not acceptable. They are blaming it all on covid but I personally have been on the NHS waiting list for endometriosis surgery since February 2019

MamsellMarie · 30/10/2021 07:42

I really don't think people should wait for what could be a diagnosis of cancer, however unlikely it might be, the mental stress is terrible, it's not easy carrying on as normal with the thought that you could be in for debilitating treatment with long term consequences or a much shortened lifespan, and how that plays out for your loved ones.

Don't mean to be hysterical but it's all very well to say 'you'll be fine' when in fact the OP doesn't know that and nor does ayone else.

I think the Gov can't do anything aabout the mess the nhs is in without screams of panic about privatising the NHS when privatising to an insurance system is actually the way to go but we can't get to that because of screaming headlines and the Tories risking losing most of their seats due to the hysteria (there was similar over the 'dementia' tax). Nothing is going to improve until the parties unite to come up wiht a solution.

gcgirlsrock · 30/10/2021 07:47

It annoys me when people immediately blame the government. We are pumping billions and billions into the NHS constantly. The issue is that it is a broken model and needs to be drastically reduced - it was never intended to be all things to all people. Some serious public debates need to happen to decide how we will move on with an ageing society and so many in the country using the system. The backlog was caused by Covid, but the problems were there before.

Peaseblossum22 · 30/10/2021 07:52

There was a very good documentary on the NHS by Matthew Syed last week it’s really worth a watch. One of the biggest problems he contends is that the NHS as an organisation always prioritises itself , systems are built which are best for the NHS . In contrast for example the Dutch system is based on patient centred care,(I am talking here about systemic care not the individual care givers ) .

Ultimately the NHS has become so big that there are so many vested interests that change has become almost impossible . But it’s not working, as someone currently wrestling with the care of 5 older people it’s a nightmare , all the parties are doing their best but they are constrained by the inability of the wider organisation to respond with any degree of nimbleness at all.

Thataintright · 30/10/2021 07:56

No, OP. The present gvt is terribly, by stripping back service after service.

We try our best, but we can only work with the tools/resources/staff we are have.

When I started out (almost 20 years ago), there were around 11 full time clinicians. There are now only five full time clinicians... yet the referrals are rising.

Please, please lay the blame where it firmly belongs. The state of the NHS is a direct result of this government's inadequacies.

There's that saying that you can judge a gvt on how they treat their most vulnerable.. I rest my case.

whiteroseredrose · 30/10/2021 08:03

I don't know what system they have in Spain but it seems to be far better than the NHS.

PIL are there at the moment as MIL has a few things that she is being treated for. All appointments have been within a week. (All free as they are pensioners).

They are scared to come back because they have a particularly inaccessible GP surgery and worry about what would happen if they were ill here.

Who would ever have thought it?

MalteserGeezee · 30/10/2021 08:05

I'm sick of the NHS being the sacred cow that must never be criticised. Too many people have a truly shit experience with it. There are many disinterested, badly trained staff. Hospitals are grim environments. Woe betide those who cannot stamp their feet and complain loudly enough to be seen. I am so sorry for you. I'm sick of being made to feel "grateful" for whatever care it can spare. Literally nobody is recommending a US-style system, but let's look to our European neighbors for inspiration about how a well-run, correctly funded, actually-there-reliably-when-you-need-it health service looks like. Happy to pay more, in exchange for actual customer service and treatment. We need to be able to have an honest conversation about the health service modern society wants, needs and deserves.

Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds · 30/10/2021 08:13

@whiteroseredrose

I don't know what system they have in Spain but it seems to be far better than the NHS.

PIL are there at the moment as MIL has a few things that she is being treated for. All appointments have been within a week. (All free as they are pensioners).

They are scared to come back because they have a particularly inaccessible GP surgery and worry about what would happen if they were ill here.

Who would ever have thought it?

Yes Spain is vastly better. To be young and/or vulnerable in this country is a very scary thing. Protecting the free NHS only does a disservice to those who have no choice but to rely on it. I cannot even imagine the lost productivity, human suffering etc caused by the waiting times we now have.
donemeover · 30/10/2021 08:14

@luckylavender

It's really not appropriate to suggest going private to the OP when no one knows anyone's circumstances.
Why is it not appropriate? It's a viable option that could save the OP time waiting. Therefore a very viable option if she has the funds or can find them to go private.
Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds · 30/10/2021 08:14

@MalteserGeezee

I'm sick of the NHS being the sacred cow that must never be criticised. Too many people have a truly shit experience with it. There are many disinterested, badly trained staff. Hospitals are grim environments. Woe betide those who cannot stamp their feet and complain loudly enough to be seen. I am so sorry for you. I'm sick of being made to feel "grateful" for whatever care it can spare. Literally nobody is recommending a US-style system, but let's look to our European neighbors for inspiration about how a well-run, correctly funded, actually-there-reliably-when-you-need-it health service looks like. Happy to pay more, in exchange for actual customer service and treatment. We need to be able to have an honest conversation about the health service modern society wants, needs and deserves.
Totally agree. Throwing more money at the system as it is currently operation is foolish.