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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Shocked at how terrible the NHS is nowadays

342 replies

ConfusedBoobs · 29/10/2021 19:13

I had a mammogram a month ago that showed I have calcifications that they don't think are cancer but they won't know for sure until after I've had a biopsy. Today I found out that the biopsy can't be prioritised as urgent and so will still be another month away. AIBU to think it's terrible to leave people in limbo like this?

OP posts:
BananaBlue · 29/10/2021 21:53

@julieca that’s my thoughts exactly.

I’m seeing lots recently about going private for x,y,z and it’s better than the NHS but I keep thinking it’s better because they are not offering uni resale healthcare.

If private systems became the primary healthcare then I doubt it would function well.

I say this as someone who has HC insurance and has also paid handsomely for private care that the ins didn’t cover.

julieca · 29/10/2021 21:55

I have had relatives and friends with terminal cancer. I agree Macmillan are rarely any good. But I always hear excellent things about Maggies Centres. A shame you don't have one nearer.
Does he have many years still to go?
I have also heard excellent things about district nurse team who get involved in the final weeks. But hopefully that is still a long way for your husband.

BananaBlue · 29/10/2021 21:56

And Flowers for all those suffering and working within the state of the NHS.

I’m sorry for your troubles. Sad

julieca · 29/10/2021 21:59

@BananaBlue I don't have private health insurance. A friend who does was quoted exactly the same wait for surgery for suspected cancer privately as on the NHS.
Because they cant magic up extra staff in either service.
And yes we always knew this would happen if we just let covid run riot. But people wanted to live life normally. That has an impact.

I do think sometimes as well people can misunderstand how quickly things need to happen. I know I have had tests where everyone is - we think there is nothing serious, but we should just double-check. Of course that wont be on the 2 week cancer pathway.

AlphabetAerobics · 29/10/2021 22:00

@Serenschintte you’re not wrong, but people don’t want to look to Europe… they just quack on about the US. I was under EU health insurance during the Blair years - knocked “labours nhs” into a cocked hat.

julieca · 29/10/2021 22:02

@AlphabetAerobics people in other EU countries pay way more for their healthcare. That is the basic issue.

bloodywhitecat · 29/10/2021 22:02

@julieca we were told 6 months a year ago but he is still here and doing really well

Ginfilledcats · 29/10/2021 22:02

I'm sorry you're having to wait so long, I would second pp that if you're not classified as urgent, generally speaking that's reassuring! I really hope you get a positive outcome!

Cards on the table: I'm NHS staff. Agree it's not perfect, far from it and quality/wait times vary massively but do not think privatisation is the way to go. I don't know what the answer is though. There's no easy solution.

To the people saying I'd rather it be private and free at point of care disappears, I don't understand what privatisation will change - we'll still be reliant on the same work force - same number of medics, nurses, AHP, admin, estates, catering etc, but with added departments to pay for in finance/billing, marketing, rebranding etc which will incur additional costs, it will mean even more inequitable care regionally than there is now. Ie there's more money in the South therefore would their hospitals attract the better work force, numbers and therefore would boast the shorter waiting times and better care? Would the rich northerners then request to be seen down south, increasing the number of referrals, increasing the wait to be seen, increasing delays to treatment in the South anyway? Then what?

In the north west, across all the trusts, there is a massive deficiency of Haematologists (for example) something like a 40% vacancy rate. It's not because we're not paying enough, because they are all paid (roughly) the same across the country. It's because there aren't enough Haematologists for the demand. Privatisation isn't going to change that. And even if they did offer more money, you'll have to wait 15 years for new haematologists to qualify!

The problem with the NHS is what's expected now. Both by the patients and by the gov, vs what it was set up for! For example, half of our matrons are "corporate" ie, responding to incident investigations, complaints, managing targets such as CQUINS which are mandated and CQC reports/action plans, managing sickness absence and doing appraisals, applying for additional funding for things. Not doing the old school matron job of old.
None of that will go away with privatisation, I imagine it will be more so as it will have to run for profit, not for deficits which it massively does now. The pressure won't go away, it will be even more pressure to see more/do more and make more money as opposed to do what's best for the patient. Plus the pressure from the "I've paid x for this therefore I demand y" brigade will be worse than the "I pay my taxes for this". I've worked in private hospitals and experienced that side too. (Obviously not all private or nhs patients are like that).

I was discussing business planning for next year earlier. I've been told for my services, I've got to ensure more new appointments, but less follow up appointments with less money. How the heck do you do that without compromising patient care? So this year if you got referred in to see dr x, you would get a 30 min new patient appointment and say on average 4 follow ups. If you are referred next year with the same condition, you may get a 15 min appointment with a Physician Associate instead of a consultant, and 2 telephone follow ups instead. The consultants generally speaking are all for now can we deliver the fare differently, but at the end of the day, if consultant thinks she need to see you 6 times, she should be able to! Not discharge you after 2 because that'll all we're paid for! It's infuriating. Will a private health care insist on seeing more or less patients per clinic? Private outpatient appointments for Gynae at the private hospital I worked for 10 years ago was £250 for a 10 min out patient appointment!!!

I really wish there was a better way, the only thing I can think of is better funding, get the money from all the big businesses/MPs/rich folk who don't pay taxes appropriately....hmm what a crazy idea that would be.

I'm rambling now and veered far away from the ops original point. I really am sorry for your nervous wait and wish you all the best!

julieca · 29/10/2021 22:03

And I remember under Labour the number of people using private health care plummeted. It started selling itself on the basis of nice rooms and meals.

frumpety · 29/10/2021 22:03

@bloodywhitecat Flowers what sort of support are you needing ?

Mumsgirls · 29/10/2021 22:04

The private system in USA is far better than anything here, but it is very expensive, so unless you are rich or have good employer cover, you are stuck
Here we have made a holy cow of the NHS which now provides a very poor service. Meanwhile nhs consultants do private work on the side, for those with money or a rare excellent employer scheme. I have severe health problems and am so grateful that my employer covers me with as a work benefit. I would be in a right mess without it, but not fair

50ShadesOfCatholic · 29/10/2021 22:06

@BrumBirth

This sounds really difficult OP. The wait must be so frustrating.

But that said it does make sense that if they think it’s unlike to be cancer that other people are prioritised first, people who could be very likely to have cancer.

The NHS is far from perfect but I’d rather have it than pay £££££s like they do in the US

Why do so many posters talk as if there is only one alternative to the NHS and that it's the American system? The USA is notorious for its inaccessible health services. But so many countries have excellent health services. Here in NZ it's amazing. Find it SO much better than the NHS.
julieca · 29/10/2021 22:06

[quote bloodywhitecat]@julieca we were told 6 months a year ago but he is still here and doing really well[/quote]
I am so glad he is doing well. I hope you are managing to make the most of the time you have together.
I also hope when the time comes the district nurse team is as good as I have heard. The care from everyone I know who have had them in the last few weeks was outstanding.

Viviennemary · 29/10/2021 22:06

It might as well not exist for all the use it is. Totally and absolutely hopeless.

julieca · 29/10/2021 22:07

@Mumsgirls

The private system in USA is far better than anything here, but it is very expensive, so unless you are rich or have good employer cover, you are stuck Here we have made a holy cow of the NHS which now provides a very poor service. Meanwhile nhs consultants do private work on the side, for those with money or a rare excellent employer scheme. I have severe health problems and am so grateful that my employer covers me with as a work benefit. I would be in a right mess without it, but not fair
I have family in the US who have the same health condition as me. They all get way worse treatment. But then none of us are rich. My Aunt who is my age has already died as a result of minimal medical treatment.
CamQ · 29/10/2021 22:08

Envy of the (third) world.

According to the health think tank The King’s Fund, the NHS apparently performs well in some areas (preventing financial hardship in its patients ie it’s free) but less well in others (preventing death and poor outcomes).

www.kingsfund.org.uk/press/press-releases/nhs-receives-mixed-scorecard-major-analysis-international-health-systems

Remind me again what the main objective of a health service should be??

3luckystars · 29/10/2021 22:08

The US style system isn’t the only other alternative, there are loads of other countries in Europe that have great systems.

Autumnlyannoyed · 29/10/2021 22:09

The reason the NHS provides a poor service is because it is underfunded and understaffed. It is actually very efficient compared to other health systems, but it has gone far beyond the point that it can become more efficient and is now forced to effectively cut services. It doesn’t really matter whether it is funded by taxation or insurance, the main thing is that it is properly funded and taxation is a much more equitable method.

BananaBlue · 29/10/2021 22:10

I agree with Gin and Julie.

Thing is large parts of the NHS already is privatised or outsourced and they don’t necessarily work well.

Healthcare will go the way of care homes if we are not careful. They were largely public once. Now they are constantly in crisis while providing huge profits to equity firms.

I wonder if medical staff having full control of NHS structure/function instead of DHSC would work better?

And yes I remember NHS being much more efficient under Blair.

julieca · 29/10/2021 22:10

@Viviennemary

It might as well not exist for all the use it is. Totally and absolutely hopeless.
No that is absolute rubbish. My father has had two heart operations in the last 18-months. He had masses of tests, support, follow-up appointments. I have a consultants appointment next week for a non-urgent operation. A condition that I quickly had tests for. My dad would have been dead without the NHS. Now he is expected to live another 15 years. Please don't talk such rubbish.
Autumnlyannoyed · 29/10/2021 22:11

Other countries with great systems (eg France) pay significantly more for healthcare than we do. It is not a problem with the system, it is a problem with the money.

julieca · 29/10/2021 22:13

@CamQ our NHS is very underfunded.
Why would you spend little on service and expect it to be the same as health services that are very well funded? It's common sense.

The specialist eye service in Nottingham was privatised. It went from an internationally recognised centre of excellence to struggling to do very basic eye care. The idea that if you privatise something it magically gets better is rubbish.

FatCatThinCat · 29/10/2021 22:13

YANBU and I'm so sorry you're going through this. I've just been through similar but here in Sweden. Mammogram flagged up anomalies, referred to hospital, biopsied, thankfully given the all clear. From mammogram to all clear took 10 days. I can't imagine the fear and anxiety of having to wait months.

Autumnlyannoyed · 29/10/2021 22:13

Nordic countries are much better at taking healthcare out of the realm of politics. Here, the funding goes up and down like a yo-yo depending on who is in charge and there is a reorganisation every 5-10 years.

Viviennemary · 29/10/2021 22:16

Cancer patients have been shunted back and forth and appointments cancelled. I'm glad your Dad had good treatment but that isn't the case for everybody.

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