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Original poster

Penelope jackson guilty of murder

407 replies

Thomasina79 · 29/10/2021 16:51

I’ve been following this news item with interest. She is the woman who stabbed her violent and coercive and bullying husband to death after 20 years of torment. She denied murder, but admitted manslaughter.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking the jury should have not found her guilty of murder but guilty of manslaughter. Murder carries a life sentence in prison and I cannot see that that there is anything to gain by locking her away.

OP posts:
SunshineCake1 · 29/10/2021 19:14

Apparently she coerced her third husband into suicide.

ancientgran · 29/10/2021 19:17

[quote tempchecked]Does anyone remember the case of Paul Jenner?

His partner Sherry Naidoo abused him and spent 6 months in jail. Immediately upon her release she attacked him again and he died some days later.

Naidoo was convicted of ABH but not of murder or manslaughter. Always puzzled me that one, but as others have said I am merely going by what I have read about it and the C4 account on "24 hours in police custody" Very sad case, and it is rare to see domestic abuse from the perspective of a male being abused by a female partner too I think.

[/quote] My exDIL abused my son, she now abuses her new partner. She seems very sweet and I don't think anyone would believe it. I've heard it when GS phoned me and I heard what went on. Although I would believe my son I don't think I could have understood the extent if I hadn't heard it. Big rugby playing bloke, he can look after himself except of course if he retaliated he'd be in big trouble. It is hard to know what goes on behind locked doors.
ManifestingWisdom · 29/10/2021 19:21

Having endured 7 years of hell with an abusive man the only thing I can find reassuring is that she won't find prison as bad as life with him.
I'm 14 years post monster but by the time I left him I was so demented I would have chosen 'life' over another minute with him. I hope she finds peace in prison and adapts well.

ginghamstarfish · 29/10/2021 19:21

We can't really know, but how sad for anyone to stay in such an unhappy marriage for so long.

AICM · 29/10/2021 19:21

The cause of women's right is negatively impacted upon when women seek to excuse/minimise the awful actions of some women.

ZenNudist · 29/10/2021 19:25

I don't think you can excuse cold blooded murder on the grounds of being ill treated. She should have left not stabbed him. She'd have been better going in for an insanity defence and seeming remorseful

itsgettingwierd · 29/10/2021 19:27

@AICM

The cause of women's right is negatively impacted upon when women seek to excuse/minimise the awful actions of some women.
Well said.

I've often said this and I'm met with sheer anger as if I'm against the cause of woman. I'm not - I'm a feminist.

I've had this with disability groups too. My ds is disabled and we do have to fight for most things. However the not picking fights some parents choose to have totally undermines the cause and and creates animosity rather than help change things.

prh47bridge · 29/10/2021 19:27

[quote tempchecked]Does anyone remember the case of Paul Jenner?

His partner Sherry Naidoo abused him and spent 6 months in jail. Immediately upon her release she attacked him again and he died some days later.

Naidoo was convicted of ABH but not of murder or manslaughter. Always puzzled me that one, but as others have said I am merely going by what I have read about it and the C4 account on "24 hours in police custody" Very sad case, and it is rare to see domestic abuse from the perspective of a male being abused by a female partner too I think.

[/quote] I can't say for certain, but I believe the problem with this case is that there was medical evidence that the bleeding on his brain that led to his death could have started when she was in custody for a previous offence. That meant that, although on the balance of probabilities the coroner was able to say that her attack caused his death, the prosecution could not prove it beyond reasonable doubt.
DobbyTheHouseElk · 29/10/2021 19:29

She doesn’t seem like a murderer.

She looks frightened and totally like she’s lost it.

Awful for the emergency services to attend a call like that.

prh47bridge · 29/10/2021 19:30

Correction to my post above. I've just found a report I hadn't seen before. It appears the judge stopped the trial when it emerged that there was no evidence Naidoo's assault had caused Jenner to fall to the ground. That meant the prosecution could not prove she was responsible for the injuries that led to his death and there was insufficient evidence to prove she intended to kill him or cause him serious harm.

AICM · 29/10/2021 19:31

@DobbyTheHouseElk

She doesn’t seem like a murderer.

She looks frightened and totally like she’s lost it.

Awful for the emergency services to attend a call like that.

What does a murderer look ? What does a rapist look like? What does a rape victim.look like?
Mynameismargot · 29/10/2021 19:31

@SausageSizzle

In the Anthony Williams case, he chased his wife around the house 'choking the living daylights' out of her so violently that he broke her neck 5 times.

He said he began strangling her after she told him to “get over it” when he expressed his concerns.

He said he chased his wife downstairs and again grabbed her by her throat as she tried to unlock the front door to escape, saying he found himself “throttling her to death”.

She was taken to hospital where she was pronounced dead, having suffered haemorrhaging in her eyes, face and mouth which were consistent with strangulation, as well as five neck fractures.

Yet only 5 years. Double standard or what?

Hard to avoid concluding that women's lives are seen as less valuable than men's and men's mental health issues are seen as more valid than those caused to women by domestic abuse.

This, a million times. So many people saying double standards, you wouldn't be saying this if it was the other way round. Well no because if it was the other way round the bloke would probably get a 4 or 5 year sentence for manslaughter.
x2boys · 29/10/2021 19:32

@DobbyTheHouseElk

She doesn’t seem like a murderer.

She looks frightened and totally like she’s lost it.

Awful for the emergency services to attend a call like that.

And you base this on a but of TV coverage and media coverage ? Harold Shipman didn't look like a murderer either
ancientgran · 29/10/2021 19:32

Having walked into my office in a police station to find a man sitting at my desk I said hello and asked if anyone was looking after him. He was a murderer, just in for questioning as a possible witness at the time so no one knew it was him and no interview rooms free so they sat him at my desk. He didn't seem like a murderer, in fact he was very pleasant.

HireStarter · 29/10/2021 19:33

@Glitterandunicorns

She may not have helped herself in her demeanour, but this is a woman who stated she had been controlled and abused for decades by this man. It is not surprising to think that in that situation, you might not feel that sad that he is dead.

The police had been called out on at least one prior incident when he was violent.

I think this is an awfully sad case. I'm gutted she was convicted of murder, but understand why she was.

I really hope there is some sort of leniency in sentencing.

I agree.

She's human. She had been abused for a long time, physically and psychologically. No wonder in the end she decided to kill him. I assume stabbing him once and not killing him wouldn't make her situation safer; no doubt a lot more dangerous. She knew (or believed) she couldn't get away from him whilst he was alive. And to be honest, if the choice is her life or his life, the abuser should die.

I have no time for domestic abusers. They tend to do it over and over to every partner. They don't change. He had what was coming as far as I'm concerned

Userguaranteed · 29/10/2021 19:35

@DobbyTheHouseElk

She doesn’t seem like a murderer.

She looks frightened and totally like she’s lost it.

Awful for the emergency services to attend a call like that.

She literally murdered someone.

But 'she doesn't seem like a murderer'.

Crikey!

DobbyTheHouseElk · 29/10/2021 19:36

I’m not well, so probably not making myself clear.

Trying to say that she looks like she’s having a mental breakdown. To me she looks pushed to the limit.

The jury had all the evidence. So obviously not.

prh47bridge · 29/10/2021 19:36

She had been abused for a long time, physically and psychologically

Just to repeat, she claimed she had been abused. There was little evidence to support her claims and some evidence that she was the abuser in this marriage. None of us knows the truth about what really went on between her and her husband.

x2boys · 29/10/2021 19:37

She said she was abused ,other people said she was the abuser ,none of us on here know the truth but I'm betting the Jury have a better idea than any of us .

whitehorsesdonotlie · 29/10/2021 19:37

The BBC is reporting that

David Jackson's estranged daughter Jane Calverley accused the defendant of being the abuser in the relationship and that her father would never have asked for help because he would have been too proud to admit to being bullied and abused by his wife

Very hard for us to say definitively who was abusive after only seeing and hearing a snapshot of their lives. Why was Jackson's daughter estranged?

The killer certainly wasn't remorseful, though, and that didn't help. Awful to say that she was abused if she wasn't.

But the sentence - that seems high. Life, serving at least 18 years. Do men who kill their wives get that long? No, not usually. See www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/culture-of-misogyny-could-mean-men-get-more-lenient-sentences-commissioners-warn-12239861

PilatesPeach · 29/10/2021 19:38

I did a dissertation on this in the 90s for my law degree - battered women who kill. Sarah Thornton & Kiranjit Aluwahlia. There is no sentencing leeway with murder - it carries a mandatory life sentence unlike manslaughter.

CounsellorTroi · 29/10/2021 19:39

She's human. She had been abused for a long time, physically and psychologically. No wonder in the end she decided to kill him.

Except there was little evidence of this abuse.

ssd · 29/10/2021 19:40

Ive reported this thread. Its gone too far.

LittleDandelionClock · 29/10/2021 19:40

YABU @Thomasina79

LittleDandelionClock · 29/10/2021 19:40

She may have been abused by her husband for many years, and that is awful, and I do feel sorry for anyone who goes through that. However, she not only showed zero remorse, she was actually glad he was dead, and said (when the police came along) that she hoped he was dead, and 'hoped she had done the job properly.'

Her cold and callous manner when she had stabbed her husband was her downfall I believe. It was definitely murder, so @Thomasina79 I disagree with you.

I agree with other posters too, who said she seemed rather unlikeable, aloof, and somewhat callous, and it is very very hard to find a scrap of sympathy for her.

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