Penelope jackson guilty of murder

[Thomasina79]

I’ve been following this news item with interest. She is the woman who stabbed her violent and coercive and bullying husband to death after 20 years of torment. She denied murder, but admitted manslaughter.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking the jury should have not found her guilty of murder but guilty of manslaughter. Murder carries a life sentence in prison and I cannot see that that there is anything to gain by locking her away.

@CatsArePeople

She's guilty, ok. But a life sentence? Unlike men who get ridiculously short sentences.

A life sentence is mandatory for murder. Any man convicted of murder will also get a life sentence. The judge has no choice.

The judge has set the minimum term at 18 years which is a little above the starting point for this type of murder (15 years). A man who murdered someone and showed no remorse would be likely to get a similar sentence.

The jury heard the evidence, we only know what we have read in the press. RIP David Jackson.

@Figmentofmyimagination I cannot believe you think people can just leave. As I said before it is complex. My mother had a miserable, miserable life at the hands of my dad, her abuser. Why didn't she 'just leave'? Well, the control he had over her was absolute, the psychological damage he had caused over the years was unbelievable.

Even their own grandchildren had no idea as they only saw the sanitised and charming version of him. I begged her to leave him for 30 years and she couldn't.

@x2boys

Yes and the case where the mother killed the disabled ,child ,there was a thread about that too lots of sympathy for the mother ,I really struggled with that thread because whilst I agree she should have got diminished responsibility, because she was also psychotic ,I'm also the parent of a severely disabled child and it felt like ,there was more sympathy in here for the mother than the child .

There was another case recently where a young mother left her toddler alone whilst she went out partying. The child basically starved to death. I'm not sure if that has been to court yet - but it would be interesting to see what the sentence is there.

I’ve absolutely no sympathy , in the same way as she has no remorse . I feel very sorry for her daughter .

She got 19 years. But the husband who murdered his wife recently, strangling her so hard his hands hurt, got 5 years after pleading dimished responsibility. I'm not convinced this is a fair sentence.

I’m very undecided about this one. I guess as we all should be as none of us have the facts. Just the media presentation of it.

As someone who has suffered DV in the past I sincerely hope it wasn’t a situation where she was abused for years and years. How are you supposed to prove you have been abused? You can’t. It’s your word against theirs. Unless you file police reports every time?

We do know he had held a knife to her throat and the daughter had previously reported violence. So I don’t think it’s a clear cut case of her completely making up the abuse.

Equally we don’t know if she abused him. Is there any evidence of this either?

You have to hope and assume the jury were given some hard proof that she wasn’t an abused wife pushed over the edge.

Such a sad case all round.

There was another case recently where a young mother left her toddler alone whilst she went out partying. The child basically starved to death. I'm not sure if that has been to court yet - but it would be interesting to see what the sentence is there.

She was convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to 9 years.

She got 19 years. But the husband who murdered his wife recently, strangling her so hard his hands hurt, got 5 years after pleading dimished responsibility. I'm not convinced this is a fair sentence.

He was convicted of manslaughter, not murder, hence the difference in sentence. If Penelope Jackson had succeeded with her defence of loss of control, the starting point for sentencing would have been 8 years.

A life sentence is mandatory for murder. Any man convicted of murder will also get a life sentence. The judge has no choice.

The judge has set the minimum term at 18 years which is a little above the starting point for this type of murder (15 years). A man who murdered someone and showed no remorse would be likely to get a similar sentence.

And the interesting case above of Peter who got diminished responsibility and a life sentence for manslaughter with DR.

The other man Anthony got 5 years with the same conviction.

I'd never really looked before at how varying sentences could be for the same conviction of crime. I guess that's where the judges opinion of the case comes in? But again - he has to base that opinion on facts presented to him/her and justify that?

I think because she wasn’t sorry she did it won’t have helped her case.

She wanted him dead. She hated him. He taunted her even as she was stabbing him that she was pathetic and not even stabbing him properly

This blew up because she served him “bubble and squeak” with lobster for a birthday dinner. He didn’t want the “bubble and squeak”.

@itsgettingwierd

A life sentence is mandatory for murder. Any man convicted of murder will also get a life sentence. The judge has no choice.

The judge has set the minimum term at 18 years which is a little above the starting point for this type of murder (15 years). A man who murdered someone and showed no remorse would be likely to get a similar sentence.

And the interesting case above of Peter who got diminished responsibility and a life sentence for manslaughter with DR.

The other man Anthony got 5 years with the same conviction.

I'd never really looked before at how varying sentences could be for the same conviction of crime. I guess that's where the judges opinion of the case comes in? But again - he has to base that opinion on facts presented to him/her and justify that?

Peter was not sentenced to life in prison, contrary to some reports. He was given a hybrid order under the Mental Health Act of life with a minimum term of 8 years.

I 100% believe she should be locked away for life. I was best friends with her eldest daughter in the 90s when her husband "killed" himself. Even as a young teen I could see pure evil in her.
If there was abuse I don't believe it was from him, ive seen it with my own eyes.

Can't argue with that !

Thanks for correcting PH. I had read that but if it's being reported incorrectly it needs to be out there as it is. I did read the judge was quite scathing of him in his closing remarks.

@Helen0202

I 100% believe she should be locked away for life. I was best friends with her eldest daughter in the 90s when her husband "killed" himself. Even as a young teen I could see pure evil in her. If there was abuse I don't believe it was from him, ive seen it with my own eyes.

Pure evil? What’s this, Take a Break magazine?

We none of us know any of the actual details of their marriage. We weren't there, living in the house, every day.
In fact nobody who gave evidence was either. There were accounts from family and friends supporting and refuting the DV claim from both sides.
Whatever her motive to kill her husband that day , was heard in court and judged by a jury of her peers , which is our system in this country. She was represented by lawyers as is everyone's right in the UK.
At the end of the trial she was found guilty BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT, that is how it works.
Her lawyers were unable to supply enough evidence to persuade the jury of her innocence or that the charge should be manslaughter.
She may well appeal.
All this speculation on here seems futile.
The families of these people have to live with the consequences of what happened every single day.
Its very sad for them.

@mountbattenbergcake

The only one who mentioned abuse over many years was the murderer, she'd used the policve in the past but with no charges being brought. Being a woman does not make it all true.

But that’s not true. Eye witnesses (their dd) saw him holding a knife to her throat years ago and even his son said he had seen him raise a hand to her (he didn’t see him hit her but it’s still a threat of violence).

In both those examples he did control himself, if he hadn't he might have been on a murder charge. She didn't control herself, quite the opposite really as she came back for a second attack so she was on a murder charge.

This is an unusual one. She had been married 4 times and one husband killed himself. She sounded flippant as though she had just done something a little foolish but never mind...no harm done.

Now that there can be further reporting on the case as a whole I think they were right to find her guility. Not one of us heard the case personally but I think the result was the right one.

She left three other husbands and I am struggling to think why she didnt leave him if he was doing the things she claims.

Correct verdict imo

Jury had the facts. We dont
I hope she dies in prison

@Felix125

There was another case recently where a young mother left her toddler alone whilst she went out partying. The child basically starved to death. I'm not sure if that has been to court yet - but it would be interesting to see what the sentence is there.

She got 9 years in prison. (I think this is the women you are referring to... Verphy Kudi.) She left her toddler alone for 6 days whilst she went partying. The poor little girl died of starvation and dehydration.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-58102792

Verphy got away with a manslaughter charge. Probably be out in 4 and a half years! She should be sterilised. yes, that IS what I said. She doesn't deserve to ever EVER have another child

[quote LittleDandelionClock]@Felix125

There was another case recently where a young mother left her toddler alone whilst she went out partying. The child basically starved to death. I'm not sure if that has been to court yet - but it would be interesting to see what the sentence is there.

She got 9 years in prison. (I think this is the women you are referring to... Verphy Kudi.) She left her toddler alone for 6 days whilst she went partying. The poor little girl died of starvation and dehydration.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-58102792

Verphy got away with a manslaughter charge. Probably be out in 4 and a half years! She should be sterilised. yes, that IS what I said. She doesn't deserve to ever EVER have another child[/quote]
That is truly horrific and 9 years seems a light sentence, haven't read the article so maybe there are other factors but that poor child.

@ancientgran I know right. The little girl must have been so frightened and desperate. She STARVED to death while her mum 'partied' for 6 days. Sickening.

What a dreadful, painful death that little girl must have suffered. The only very slight consolation is that the little girl is suffering no more, and doesn't have to suffer having that awful callous woman for a 'mother' anymore.

I think the woman should have been up on a murder charge to be honest.

One thing baffled me slightly about this whole case though. Surely someone must have heard that little girls cries and screams? She must have been crying/wailing/sobbing for a long time. How come no-one heard her/noticed her? This baffles me.

9 years seems a light sentence

The offence appears to have been gross negligence manslaughter. It is clearly high culpability but I don't think there is enough to push it into the very high culpability category in the sentencing guidelines. The starting point for sentencing was therefore 8 years and the sentence had to fall in the range 6-12 years. It looks to me like the judge went for the maximum possible sentence (12 years) with a 25% discount for pleading guilty.

@LittleDandelionClock I believe it was mentioned in the court case that the child was so used to not receiving any attention from her mother (I use that term loosely) that she had learnt not to cry. Which is even more heart breaking.