Penelope jackson guilty of murder

[Thomasina79]

I’ve been following this news item with interest. She is the woman who stabbed her violent and coercive and bullying husband to death after 20 years of torment. She denied murder, but admitted manslaughter.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking the jury should have not found her guilty of murder but guilty of manslaughter. Murder carries a life sentence in prison and I cannot see that that there is anything to gain by locking her away.

@Joystir59

A high percentage of women prisoners are there for resorting to violence to deal with abusive men

Quote your source.

I'm glad she got found guilty. 18 years isn't long enough.

I don’t think there being more women than men on the jury means all that much. There are regularly debates on here where one group of posters takes the view that other posters in the thread are going easy on an op who is female where they wouldn’t if the sexes were reversed.

Battered woman syndrome can be part of a legal defence - something I often think about on those threads where posters don’t seem to be familiar with reactive violence. The jury had access to all the arguments and evidence in court and ultimately didn’t accept it. We can only hope that was the right decision as the alternative is awful to contemplate.

Seriously. This thread wouldn't be here if the otherway round. The double standard is shocking. This woman was psycho who stabbed her husband whilst he was on the phone to 999 and showed no remorse, and has years worth of people saying she bullied him.

Agree 100%

He was a vile, violent abusive man:

The court had heard the couple had quarrelled because Mr Jackson got angry when she prepared a side dish of bubble and squeak vegetables to eat with an expensive meal of crab, lobster and steak purchased by their daughter to celebrate her birthday.

The court heard she had called the police in December last year when he smashed a glass door with a poker during a row over the TV remote control.

The defendant's daughter Isabelle Potterton, who had been raised by her father from birth, told Bristol Crown Court she had witnessed him acting violently towards her mother on three occasions when she was a child, including one incident where he held a knife to her throat.

Her argument was that she didn't have intent/lost control:

Jackson previously broke down in tears in court, telling the jury: "I don't know what happened. I didn't want to kill him. I did it, I am sorry. I didn't want him to die. He loved me, and I loved him, and it's awful about what happened."

In order to convict of murder, the jury need to be sure that this was not true.

I think she'll have good grounds for an appeal.

She admitted murdering him so I don’t think the jury really had a choice, however I hope her sentence is appealed as locking her up serves no purpose in my view. Hopefully it will go on to be a landmark case and the eventual outcome will be more positive for anyone guilty of coercive abuse.
However we need to be able to ensure that it doesn’t become an excuse for killing partners.

@ScienceSensibility

There are a number of legal defences to murder, which would reduce the crime to manslaughter.

Provocation is one of the defences. Sounds like she was massively abused over so many years to constitute provocation?

I suppose they'd need evidence of massive abuse. I don't know if they got that. If all it takes is saying, "I've been abused for years" any husband/wife could say that.

The jury would have seen more than we have

@Pixxie7

She admitted murdering him so I don’t think the jury really had a choice, however I hope her sentence is appealed as locking her up serves no purpose in my view. Hopefully it will go on to be a landmark case and the eventual outcome will be more positive for anyone guilty of coercive abuse. However we need to be able to ensure that it doesn’t become an excuse for killing partners.

So you don't think she should have a custodial term for murdering someone?

@skippy67

I'm glad she got found guilty. 18 years isn't long enough.

Her sentence is for life, 18 years is the minimum term for incarceration. She will still be serving her sentence on license when she leaves prison.

She is also 66. She will be 84 before she is eligible to be released.

I think there needs to be a loss of control too on the part of the abused person, not just the fact of the abuse. There have been cases previously that have focused on this.

@midsomermurderess

I don't think there is much merit in second guessing the jury's verdict. They had all the relevant evidence in front of them, they saw daily the accused's demeanour, they were given guidance by the judge as to what would justify either verdict. There is nothing to suggest that they didn't properly apply themselves to their duty. It doesn't really matter what outcome you would have chosen.

I think this is a great calm and very measured post.

It's very easy to build opinions based on what media choose to print on whatever bias they want the story told.

@SausageSizzle
I think stabbing him in the bedroom, then going and writing a note about murdering him, then when hearing him in the kitchen calling 999 going to him, snatching the phone out of his hand and stabbing him while the 999 emergency services are still on the line pretty much doesn’t show a lack of control. The recordings and footage show a woman very much in control so much so she is calmly making jokes about her M&S pjs.

This man was given 5 years for killing his wife in remarkably similar circumstances:

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/18/anthony-williams-killed-wife-act-of-great-violence-jailed-for-five-years

And he wasn't a victim of abuse.

I wonder what we'd say if a man killed a woman who's abused him in the past and who he's also abused. Killed in cold blood. Said he hope it wasn't "attempted" murder or else he hadn't done the job well. Said he wished he'd stabbed her few more times. Said he wished the police/ambulance wouldn't try to save her. Only cared about his coat and slippers and said he was happy with what he did. Then cried in court for a few minutes and said he didn't know what he did and was sorry.

'Locking him up serves no purpose. Hope he wins his appeal'. I'm sure that wouldn't be said ever!

The footage of her discussing stabbing him afterwards was awful, really chilling.
If this had been a man stabbing a woman no one would question the guilty verdict.

Very well put, midsomermurderess

I was surprised myself at the verdict, but then I wasn't there to hear all the evidence so I'm not going to join the chorus about "abusive men" since it doesn't seem relevant in this particular case

@Userguaranteed

I wonder what we'd say if a man killed a woman who's abused him in the past and who he's also abused. Killed in cold blood. Said he hope it wasn't "attempted" murder or else he hadn't done the job well. Said he wished he'd stabbed her few more times. Said he wished the police/ambulance wouldn't try to save her. Only cared about his coat and slippers and said he was happy with what he did. Then cried in court for a few minutes and said he didn't know what he did and was sorry.

'Locking him up serves no purpose. Hope he wins his appeal'. I'm sure that wouldn't be said ever!

Of course we wouldn't ,we wouldn't somehow try and blame the wide either ,for getting murdered .

Depressing there are women on here who don’t seem to believe that being abused can lead to the abuser lashing out and even killing. That DV victims are only victims if they behave nicely. Thankfully, the law is more progressive on this point, even if it wasn’t applicable or unconvincing in this particular case.

I have no clue what went on here, but it’s pretty well established that abused people can snap and hurt their abusers. They aren’t ‘crying abuse’ if they use that to defend themselves.

Oh yes... the woman provoked the man. I'm sure we wouldn't say that either.

@x2boys

@TheAntiGardener

Depressing there are women on here who don’t seem to believe that being abused can lead to the abuser lashing out and even killing. That DV victims are only victims if they behave nicely. Thankfully, the law is more progressive on this point, even if it wasn’t applicable or unconvincing in this particular case.

I have no clue what went on here, but it’s pretty well established that abused people can snap and hurt their abusers. They aren’t ‘crying abuse’ if they use that to defend themselves.

As you say you have no idea what went on none of us do ,but I'm sure the jury had a fair idea .

In the Anthony Williams case, he chased his wife around the house 'choking the living daylights' out of her so violently that he broke her neck 5 times.

He said he began strangling her after she told him to “get over it” when he expressed his concerns.

He said he chased his wife downstairs and again grabbed her by her throat as she tried to unlock the front door to escape, saying he found himself “throttling her to death”.

She was taken to hospital where she was pronounced dead, having suffered haemorrhaging in her eyes, face and mouth which were consistent with strangulation, as well as five neck fractures.

Yet only 5 years. Double standard or what?

Hard to avoid concluding that women's lives are seen as less valuable than men's and men's mental health issues are seen as more valid than those caused to women by domestic abuse.

I think her lack of "guilt" at the time off arrest and maybe continued yes I did it has made her look cold blooded ,and didn't helpshe loked like a woman at the end of her tether as a pp said, * hope she appeals.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@SausageSizzle
I think stabbing him in the bedroom, then going and writing a note about murdering him, then when hearing him in the kitchen calling 999 going to him, snatching the phone out of his hand and stabbing him while the 999 emergency services are still on the line pretty much doesn’t show a lack of control. The recordings and footage show a woman very much in control so much so she is calmly making jokes about her M&S pjs.[/quote]
If someone murdered someone in cold blood, in their right mind and 'in control' as you say, would they really be making jokes about pyjamas? It's an absolutely bizarre thing to be doing.

@Zwellers

Seriously. This thread wouldn't be here if the otherway round. The double standard is shocking. This woman was psycho who stabbed her husband whilst he was on the phone to 999 and showed no remorse, and has years worth of people saying she bullied him.

Quite. I hope they throw away the key.