To not understand the benefit system . What is going on ?

[Westnsouthnabout]

I have got totally out of touch with the benefits system.. used to work in public services so did used to be in direct contact with a variety of social issues.
Am aware that sudden breakages like washing machines to be paid for, delays in initial payment and sanctioning can mean a sudden and catastrophic change in cash flow.
However, I have been reading that food banks are utterly stretched and in crisis.
I do understand that many people end up in emeegency sitiations, however, have also been reading that some are actually reliant on regular food banks . Sort of like a weekly shop..
I totally accept that I am out of touch with current situations and would like to kmow( seperate to current rising cost of living etc which i know about) .. what is going on re why so many people are relying on them as a regular source of food when they are in reciept of a regular and mostly preductable income( apart from sanctions etc as i said) in the form of benefits.
I am aware I am ignorant amd want to understand more and perhaps contribute.

@reesewithoutaspoon

I dont blame them for milking the system. why struggle in poverty when you can get a cash in hand job on the side to supplement your income and make your life more comfortable. After all the rich have been doing it for donkeys years in tax avoidance scams and wheezes. Both are robbing the tax coffers, Just one is considered respectable and the other isnt.

This holds truth a lot of truth.

I'm in the North. But the London housing allowance is it not more compared to the North?

It varies from area to area but is based on (I think) the average of the lowest 30% of rents in that area or something. Since ds1 turned 16 I am technically "entitled" to the 3 bed rate for my area. There are no 3 bed places that would be covered by that amount, and even if there were I'd be over the benefit cap so wouldn't actually get it all. Luckily the amount I do get covers the full rent on my 2 bed, and we sacrificed a reception room so the dc could have a bedroom each. But if my landlord decided to put my rent up I'd be screwed.

Housing rate is set by each council but the rate is fixed at 30% of average local rents. This includes social housing rates. Great if you in one but private landlords are going be much Much more.

Even if you find decent home which is 50% of average rent (for say a 1 bed) it still leaves you finding 20% which could be 100s a month. Harder to find private landlord so they may well add on few quid to take you on and you don’t have much say if that or homeless. If you are in temp accommodation Or emergency they can whack up price even more.

nachostress thank you for that example - maybe it will make a few people on this thread pause, look in the mirror and put away their judgey pants.

I get £820 monthly for 3 children and 1 adult. We are disabled me and my partner and that is our total amount minus pip payments, its hard. Really hard and we are in debt up to our eyeballs now. I go without food regularly

Quite honestly I don't understand it either, there seems to be a huge disparity between what everyone seems to get. There are many who need to rely on food banks, barely scraping by. Yet a friend of mind tells me that she gets UC and with all her income she and her partner get more money than me and DH combined and he's a higher rate tax payer. Plus our rent is 3x hers as we pay privately. I don't understand how one family can get so much when others are left with so little.

The right wing rags and poverty porn shows have done a great job of blaming the poor for being poor.

So it may be that people exaggerate how well they are doing because as a society we make people ashamed of falling on hard times.

And all the smug judgmental posters upthread are only a serious car crash, nasty cancer diagnosis, or job loss away from being in that boat themselves. As we all are

@Heartburnkillingme
That amount seems wrong
1 adult
3 kids
Or is it two adults & 3 kids
Is one of the children not included in the claim
under the 2 children cap
Or are you paying back a UC loan
My neighbour couldn’t work out why her UC payments were so low but she had forgotten she had taken out a big loan from them and was paying back £40’a week from her UC award
If you get PIP are you not in the support groups as that’s 720 for one person not sure what it is for a couple
But unless you have very high rent that amount seem wrong

@itsjustnotok

Quite honestly I don't understand it either, there seems to be a huge disparity between what everyone seems to get. There are many who need to rely on food banks, barely scraping by. Yet a friend of mind tells me that she gets UC and with all her income she and her partner get more money than me and DH combined and he's a higher rate tax payer. Plus our rent is 3x hers as we pay privately. I don't understand how one family can get so much when others are left with so little.

This is the problem I have. Some people seem to almost starve, others seem very well off on benefits.

So my partner (who was our breadwinner) died suddenly a couple of months ago and right now I'm relying on the benefit system. The issue is the benefit cap. Rent on my home is £1100 a month- this is cheap for my area, honestly you won't find a 2 bed cheaper because my rent hasn't been raised in several years. But because I am under the benefit cap the local authority will only pay £600 towards my rent. They will pay £900 a month towards rent normally but can't because of the cap. I get £800 a month. So out of that £800 I am expected to pay £500 a month rent top up, all bills and feed and clothe myself and 3 children. The council won't help me, they won't even let me on the list because I still have a roof over my head. No money to move house/area. I've got a meeting with a housing charity next week to see if they can give me any advice.

[quote Bingbong21]@Lennybenny actually it is not largely down to not knowing how to budget. I would argue from what I've seen the majority have such tight margins that all it takes is the cooker to die, need to borrow some cash to replace it (because you need to feed the kids) and it spirals so so fast. I know mine is very very fine, I'm just fortunate I can borrow at zero interest and flexibly as I have a parent who is in the position they can help me. They aren't going to ask hundreds to my debt because I've had too tight a month and missed a payment.[/quote]
@KrispyKake
Actually I put down several points and the budget bit was one of them.

Not knowing how to budget is one way that UC falls down because of how its handled....changing from weekly to monthly in arrears etc. Big payments in your bank when you're not used to it and paying a bill rather than rent because you can afford it but forgetting you should at the rent and ct. Buying school shoes or uniform when you need food because you want your dc to actually have something new but not buy food for yourself. Bedroom tax is an extra. Paying off a debt from tax credits because they overpaid but you didn't know so its taken out and you're suddenly £100 short on your budget.

I have run through what we would get if both my husband and I lost our jobs and spent all our savings and it would not be enough to live on, we would have to sell our house as we could not cover the mortgage. However if we were renting then we could rent somewhere OK with how much that old pay out and with either cutting back on almost everything, or doing some hours on minimum wage we would be able to have a surplus every month.

The thing is I also accept that we are in a position where we don't need many expensive items, we have a fully furnished home, no debts, nothing on finance and everything works, that does make it much easier to live frugally. If I want to cook cheap meals in a slow cooker I already have one, I have everything I need to bake. We also don't drink when it is just the two of us, don't smoke and there is no way I would pay for Sky.

What you often see is a vicious cycle though, my husband used to help out in Citizen's Advice and another local charity and very often the people really struggling has made a few bad choices and it had spiralled from there. Something breaks, their washing machine for example, and they panic and buy one on finance. You or I would go to John Lewis and buy one outright for £350-500, or have access to interest free credit, thir only option is buying on credit ar 30% interest or more, or from somewhere like Brighthouse where the product is sold for 2-4 times what it costs in John Lewis. Or they borrow using their overdraft or credit cards and again that is expensive.

The other issue is smoking and drinking, people in deprived areas are 4.6 times more likely to smoke than those who don't, people who rent are 3.5 times more likely to smoke, smoking is very expensive. Whilst the more people earn the more they tend to spend on alcohol they generally do this by drinking less alcohol, but more expensive alcohol, they can also easily afford this, those on low incomes cannot.

Finally lot of lower income households have Sky/Virgin on expensive packages, paying £50-90 a month for TV is hugely crippling to a tight budget. That combined with expensive phone contracts (£50-100 per phone) can swallow up huge amounts.

Benefits are very low for some, especially the disabled, and we have the worst pensions in the EU, but we also have very low taxes. We also have more working age people in receipt of benefits than any other country in the EU and the huge market distortions that causes.

@MatildaIThink what choice do they have though? If my washing machine broke right now I'd have to get one on credit. It's not a bad decision , it's the only decision.

I also don't drink or smoke or have an expensive phone contract.

Im rather insulted by your post. Just because your oh did some CAB work it doesn't mean that you know the behaviour of most benefit recipients.

What you often see is a vicious cycle though, my husband used to help out in Citizen's Advice and another local charity and very often the people really struggling has made a few bad choices and it had spiralled from there. Something breaks, their washing machine for example, and they panic and buy one on finance. You or I would go to John Lewis and buy one outright for £350-500, or have access to interest free credit, thir only option is buying on credit ar 30% interest or more, or from somewhere like Brighthouse where the product is sold for 2-4 times what it costs in John Lewis. Or they borrow using their overdraft or credit cards and again that is expensive

This makes no sense. You can't say that someone has made a "bad choice" when you point out the only choices available to them. If the only options were either to have no washing machine or to get one via expensive credit then what would the "good" choice be?

Life is more expensive if you do not have spare cash, it is not a matter of poor choices. You will not have access to cheap credit, will not be able to bulk buy or by when things are on offer if you are living from week to week.
Also cheap things, like shoes, will not last whereas say an expensive leather pair will last for years.

Sorry that was in answer to @MatildaIThink

@trappedsincesundaymorn obviously the right choice would be to wash the clothing of a family of 5 in your bath tub until you could afford a new washer

Or to not be poor in the first place. Naughty poor people.

[quote ToastCrumbsOnAPlate]@trappedsincesundaymorn obviously the right choice would be to wash the clothing of a family of 5 in your bath tub until you could afford a new washer

Or to not be poor in the first place. Naughty poor people.[/quote]
Or go to the nearest river...it'll save on the water bills.

@Myusernameisnotmyusernameno

I know someone who gets 2k a month because he's deemed as unfit to work yet plays drums in a band and always has massive tv and latest computer games.

As if people are still trotting out the "massive TV" thing. I have a massive tv, it was my grandad's and I got it when he died. It's big but actually very basic. You can pick up a big flat screen tv pretty cheaply second hand on Facebook or whatever. I also have a nice mobile phone. My parent gave it to me when they upgraded but you would probably judge me too.

Do you expect people who can't work to just sit and stare at a wall all day?

@itsjustnotok That would only be possible if either one (or more) of the household is severely disabled. Without an exemption, the benefit cap would limit the household income to far below what your husband earns. Alternatively, they might receive a high amount if they work more than 16/ 24 hours (depending on circumstances) and have a very high rent, but if that was the case then you'd be eligible too.

Sometimes people are ashamed or embarrassed, and they make things up to feel better.

(Scrub out the first either!)

It’s £600 for a 3 bed semi where I live. It’s part of the difference in experience people have with benefits.

I think Sky have a lot to answer for too. Getting people with cheap opening deals and then signing them up for 2 year contracts.

@trappedsincesundaymorn

What you often see is a vicious cycle though, my husband used to help out in Citizen's Advice and another local charity and very often the people really struggling has made a few bad choices and it had spiralled from there. Something breaks, their washing machine for example, and they panic and buy one on finance. You or I would go to John Lewis and buy one outright for £350-500, or have access to interest free credit, thir only option is buying on credit ar 30% interest or more, or from somewhere like Brighthouse where the product is sold for 2-4 times what it costs in John Lewis. Or they borrow using their overdraft or credit cards and again that is expensive

This makes no sense. You can't say that someone has made a "bad choice" when you point out the only choices available to them. If the only options were either to have no washing machine or to get one via expensive credit then what would the "good" choice be?

The choice in that situation would be to do the washing at a laundrette, or if possible at a family member or friends for a while until you had saved the cash to buy outright rather than pay the exorbitant price of credit.

The choice in that situation would be to do the washing at a laundrette, or if possible at a family member or friends for a while and the cost of the laundrette and travel to take the washing to those places? Does that just appear out if thin air?
For people like me a laundrette isn't an option as I can't carry the washing there (disabled) and my family live too far away, none of us drive as I can't afford lessons or to run a car. My only option would be finance.

[quote ToastCrumbsOnAPlate]@MatildaIThink what choice do they have though? If my washing machine broke right now I'd have to get one on credit. It's not a bad decision , it's the only decision.

I also don't drink or smoke or have an expensive phone contract.

Im rather insulted by your post. Just because your oh did some CAB work it doesn't mean that you know the behaviour of most benefit recipients.[/quote]
You can feel insulted if you like, that is your perogative, but it was not my intention.

As I said not all, but there are huge differences is smoking patterns, from around 4% in the wealthiest areas to 26% in the most deprived areas. There are similar issues with alcohol consumption, although more based around it taking up a larger part of disposable income than is affordable than consumption vs non consumption.

Evidence also shows that poorer households tend to pay both more as a percentage of their income on pay TV and more overall than wealthier households, with poorer households having Sky/Virgin packages of £50-80+, where as wealthier households will have one or more of Netflix/Prime/Disney+ which even with all three combined only cost around £30.

Even things like takeaways are more prevalent in low income areas, with a higher percentage spent on pre-prepared and hot delivered food both as a percentage of income and in overall terms than in wealthier areas.

Now of course it does not apply to all people on benefits, but it does apply to a significant number, hence the statistics.