To not understand the benefit system . What is going on ?

[Westnsouthnabout]

I have got totally out of touch with the benefits system.. used to work in public services so did used to be in direct contact with a variety of social issues.
Am aware that sudden breakages like washing machines to be paid for, delays in initial payment and sanctioning can mean a sudden and catastrophic change in cash flow.
However, I have been reading that food banks are utterly stretched and in crisis.
I do understand that many people end up in emeegency sitiations, however, have also been reading that some are actually reliant on regular food banks . Sort of like a weekly shop..
I totally accept that I am out of touch with current situations and would like to kmow( seperate to current rising cost of living etc which i know about) .. what is going on re why so many people are relying on them as a regular source of food when they are in reciept of a regular and mostly preductable income( apart from sanctions etc as i said) in the form of benefits.
I am aware I am ignorant amd want to understand more and perhaps contribute.

@HerRoyalWitchyness absolutely. 4 years ago my life was sorted. I had a DH working full time, I was part time round our DC, we had the mortgage, couple of weeks away in the summer and a partridge in a pear tree. Then things went horribly wrong for reasons that I'm not divulging here and I found myself a single mum dependent on top ups. So planning, although it can help, is not an insurance policy against needing benefits. I was utterly blindsided by what happened and honestly never saw it coming. People probably judge and I'm past caring.

@HerRoyalWitchyness - I had to take clothes to a laundrette recently - it cost an absolute fortune and I had to get a taxi there and back. It would certainly not be sustainable long term.

@user1471447863

There's an element of build it and they will come. If you have foodbanks that will supply to anyone, no referral, no questions asked, then some people will use them as an alternative to Asda. Others may have initially attended in a crisis moment and have now started regularly going as they can get what they need for free and spend on other things. The reduction in stigma surrounding foodbanks and the like will also have helped drive this.

To extend the idea further, if a van came to your door ever week and handed you a big box of food for free, no questions asked, no stigma, how many would turn it down saying o thanks i'll go to Tesco and pay for it thankyou, when the rest of the neighbourhood were taking it?

Just no. People do need to be referred to the majority of foodbanks and there are a limit to the number of visits someone can make.

Do you really think there isn't a stigma attached to using foodbanks?

@MatildaIThink - more people on low incomes are disabled or ill and therefore may need to get takeaways. More people on low incomes have mental health issues or trauma and use alcohol and cigarettes to deal with it.

@wewereliars

People on benefits do tend to smoke more than those not on benefits, and as a group are more likely to spend more on takeaways.

To know the reasons behind that rather than judge people for these choices is the key.

For people with few pleasures in a difficult life, smoking can give a welcome break in the relentless gloom of a day. People on benefits are human beings after all.

The same applies to TV packages, people stuck in all day need something to occupy them FGS.

Wealthier people are able to spend more on healthier pursuits, are more likely to have positive things to look forward to in their lives and reasons to care about their health and future.

Added to which, many people are in accommodation such as Band Bs which have limited or no cooking facilities, so of course they will eat more takeaways.

Not many people would choose a life on benefits, so maybe those looking down from a position of superiority should learn a bit of compassion.

Absolutely.

There is so much goes on with brain with stress and life style and hormones it affects. If you put anyone in damp flat with no money and nothing to do for a month but extra stress and worry they are not going crave a salad. Their body desperate wants raise serotonin and feel good hormones. So people crave short sharp sugar fat intakes. Obviously much more complicated than I can fully explain but it’s not just bad choices.

Far easier to be broke in nice warm safe secure home with books and activities keep you occupied and safe places to go in community. Even if have few little for food. Stick you in homeless hostels with drugs and fighting all hours of the day. Little natural light and shared bathroom body does what it need to survive that not going be an apple and some yoga.

Partly why poverty has such a devastating affect on the body and life expectancy. It’s not just diet, hormones and stress affect all cells of your body.

LHA probably has alot to do with it, along with mounting debts

Before anyone comments on my post.... I agree that benefits are not enough. However, when I was bringing up my children and depending on benefits to top up my income - we managed by doing without things. Socialising was out, unless it was free or nearly free (at home). Trips out with the kids were practically non-existent unless they were free (walks, picnics etc) we did have a television but it was second hand and we made do with free tv, no sky package. Mobile phone was pay and go, and the cheapest package available. Clothes and shoes were what was needed, not what was wanted. No takeaways, food was what we could afford and was sufficient but not necessarily very exciting, no crisps, snacks or biscuits but enough to eat. It wasn't a very comfortable way to live but we managed it and we did still have birthday and Christmas presents and treats. Learning how to manage money is really important - I understand that if you are tied into a contract you will still have to pay for Sky, mobile phone etc. but once your contract ends just do without. You don't need to buy special Christmas pyjamas or new clothes just because you want them. I bought clothes from charity shops when I needed to. We didn't have a car - I understand that is difficult in rural areas but if you can manage without then that is what you should do. It is soul-destroying being properly poor, but there are ways to manage better. There are loads of families managing carefully and still needing food banks, but there are also families who just spend their benefits on nonessential things who could manage much better.

One reason, imo why people struggle is that certainly the DWP is so slow!

I applied in March for ESA for DD. They put her in an assessment group, which paid around £56 per week. 6 months later, I rang up to ask what was happening? They told me, they hadn't opened her file; and asked did I still want to pursue the claim? The next month, I rang up again - they still hadn't opened the file. This happened every month, until in January, the next year, I made a formal complaint - then they opened her a file. However, it took them 2 years from when I first sent in the form (and another formal complaint from me) to decide that DD belonged in the support group, and she was entitled to a disability premium - which came to around £125 per week. They paid over £6,000 in arrears.

DD was lucky, in that she had us to support her, and she was getting DLA already; but if she was a single person on her own, who could survive on £56 per week for 2 years while the DWP deliberated on?

Likewise, she had a Motability car. Motability wrote to us in about March, to say that they hadn't been paid for 7 months, so we had 2 weeks to return the car. This was the first we knew of it! It turned out, that as DD had moved into a care home in the September, the DWP stopped her DLA mobility immediately, without telling us, saying they don't pay it for people in hospital! She wasn't in hospital! I asked them what was the basis in law for this? They told me to look it up myself! So I did, and found a case at the Court of Appeal, which determined that young people with learning disabilities, who move into residential care homes, where they are looked after by care staff, are still entitled to DLA mobility. I rang up the DWP and quoted this case to them - they admitted the case changed everything and reinstated her DLA mobility.

I am a graduate professional, used to dealing with officialdom; but if a person with mild/moderate learning disabilities or difficulties with literacy and numeracy had to deal with all this; and make formal complaints; I am not sure they would be able to negotiate the bureaucracy?

@UndertheCedartree You're dead right, though you'll never get the sanctimonious Emma Woodhouse/Therese Coffey/Ebenezer Scrooge types to admit it, and they're unlikely ever to experience that level of despair and poverty themselves.

They seem to think poor people should eat only stale bread and drink water, and be thankful for it.

Poor people don't need entertainment o any kind of coping mechanism as far as those judgmental twonks are concerned - no, no, no, poor people can and should amuse themselves by doing nothing but contemplate what terrible people they are and what rubbish life choices they've made - without the Therese/Emma/Ebenezers of the world having a smidgeon of understanding that not everyone is fortunate enough to have the same start in life/wealthy family and friends networks they have...£20 to them is nothing, they don't understand that for some people it's the difference between being able to feed your family or pay the electricity bill.

The gap between rich and poor was bad enough when I was at school 40 years ago, now it's beyond a chasm...

Single working mum here. I receive a UC top up to my wages. If I worked more hours, I’d earn a half decent wage - it’s a graduate level, skilled job. I’ve never used a food bank but can totally understand why so many people need to. Some hypothetical examples:

• relationship breakdown where the working parent leaves the non working parent with the children and clears out the joint account. Non working parent suddenly needs to feed and clothe themselves and several children on no income. Applies for UC but 5 week wait.
• low income family hit by several repair bills ie car repairs/boiler needs replacing/etc etc which clears out any savings and disposable income.
• one or both parents losing their jobs so lost income, have a mortgage that needs paying but UC doesn’t help with mortgage repayments

The list goes on. The thing is that some people will read those examples and think “oh well they are the exception, so they deserve help” but those kind of scenarios are way more common than people think and aren’t the exception to any rule.

Those who are judgemental to others receiving benefits probably know several people who claim benefits but just don’t know they do. Other than my mum, my ex and one friend, no one else knows I claim UC.

From my own perspective, my wage just about covers my mortgage and essential bills. I’m extremely fortunate that my mortgage is just below £500 a month, I’m aware some people have mortgages that are over £1k a month. If that were the case then I would be visiting food banks regularly. The UC top up I receive and child benefit covers petrol, food, cost of running my car, things my children need etc and yes we can afford to go on weekends away or the odd holiday. My ex pays maintenance as well - I don’t consider myself “lucky” because that’s what he should be doing but plenty of NRPs don’t contribute. If I lost my job, the amount of UC I would qualify for would increase, but wouldn’t cover all my essentials - so again, I’d probably need to visit a food bank.

It’s not as easy as people think to just put their kids in childcare and/or take on more hours. I requested more hours at work months ago as soon as I knew I had the childcare available, and it’s still pending review because my organisation’s income (like many others) has been severely impacted by the pandemic. Here, affordable decent childcare is like hen’s teeth - childminders are all booked up, nurseries are full, the wraparound care at school has long waiting lists. My friend managed to get her DS into breakfast club this year for one morning a week - after putting his name down on the waiting list 2 years ago.

Since I've been on benefits I've experienced things I never thought I would have to, having to ring the Jobcentre to beg to have some of my next benefit payment brought forward because I have had an unexpected bill that I can't pay by not paying something else, having to explain how I have spent every last penny of my previous benefit payment & tell them what food I have left in my freezer & cupboards, being told myself & my son can exist on dry bread & cereal for 10 days. If I am what they call lucky enough to be able to get an advance having to turn up at the jobcentre & being escorted by a security guard to be put in a locked waiting room with lots of other people until my number is called & then having to go to a window to collect a giro & sign that I agree to the money being deducted from my next payment. I have also been to assessments for Personal Independent Payments where the assessor has lied through her teeth that she has seen me walk 22 metres unaided, she must have had Xray eyes as she called my name walked straight back in her room & slammed the door or she would have seen my mum holding me up & me having to stop twice to lean on the wall because I was in so much pain I couldn't breathe, assess that I was casually dressed when I had a coat that covered me from chin to below my knees zipped up, made eye contact when she never looked up from typing, was firing the next question at me before I had answered the previous one. I got dropped from enhanced rate to standard rate which meant that I lost my mobility car that I relied on & I became totally housebound, my mandatory reconsideration was refused & I had to appeal, the DWP had a month to look at my appeal before it was sent to the Tribunal service, my car was taken off me, ironically the notification came on the day my dad died & my car had to be collected on my birthday, a week later I had a phone call from a lady at the DWP to say they had looked again & decided to give me back my enhanced benefit for the longest period they could, 10 years, I asked if I would get an apology, I was told no, I asked why they hadn't got this right first time& was told they don't read all the information sent in unless the claim goes to appeal. I made a complaint to the governing body of the assessor, the Nursing & Midwifery Council, their answer was the assessor could have "misinterpreted or misunderstood the information I gave her" in other words they closed ranks. Like millions of other people I now live in constant fear of a brown envelope dropping through the door meaning I would be reassessed for one of the benefits I claim, I am terrified of being moved to Universal Credit, I have nearly 12 years until I am able to claim my State Pension & can't wait so that I will be free to live without being in constant fear.

@Nat6999 I'm so sorry for what you've been through.

My husband is going through similar. We've just received the 'evidence' they looked at for his pip mandatory reconsideration...the person they are describing is more than able to work. The person they are describing is not my husband. I lost track of the number of lies and contradictions on that bloody document.

Nobody chooses this kind of life. It sucks.

@DilemmaDelilah

Before anyone comments on my post.... I agree that benefits are not enough. However, when I was bringing up my children and depending on benefits to top up my income - we managed by doing without things. Socialising was out, unless it was free or nearly free (at home). Trips out with the kids were practically non-existent unless they were free (walks, picnics etc) we did have a television but it was second hand and we made do with free tv, no sky package. Mobile phone was pay and go, and the cheapest package available. Clothes and shoes were what was needed, not what was wanted. No takeaways, food was what we could afford and was sufficient but not necessarily very exciting, no crisps, snacks or biscuits but enough to eat. It wasn't a very comfortable way to live but we managed it and we did still have birthday and Christmas presents and treats. Learning how to manage money is really important - I understand that if you are tied into a contract you will still have to pay for Sky, mobile phone etc. but once your contract ends just do without. You don't need to buy special Christmas pyjamas or new clothes just because you want them. I bought clothes from charity shops when I needed to. We didn't have a car - I understand that is difficult in rural areas but if you can manage without then that is what you should do. It is soul-destroying being properly poor, but there are ways to manage better. There are loads of families managing carefully and still needing food banks, but there are also families who just spend their benefits on nonessential things who could manage much better.

I was brought up like this. Being cold, always having second-hand clothes when others had trendy clothes, going to the cinema being a big treat, no holidays, etc. When I see people talking on MN about what their kids were missing out on due to covid restrictions, I just thought that was my normal childhood. I still enjoyed a lot of my childhood, my mum was loving and did her best. But when I see people on MN saying how awful it is that mums have to ration food to kids and not just let them help themselves, or that their kids cant join a social outing is terrible - and I just see that as normal, I realise how different my childhood was.

@notanothertakeaway that's without any housing element, but yes, I believe single under 35s(?) get a lower housing rate when they do claim.

@julieca I know what you mean. When I talk about my childhood to my family my DH says it's like something out of an Oliver Twist novel.

I'm always telling him he was well off and spoiled! But actually his family weren't well off and he probably wasn't spoiled, his childhood experience was more common than mine.

@Nemorth Yes I heard mums I know say how terrible it was when Marcus Rashford said his mum bought packs of very cheap yoghurt with one allocated a day to him. It actually took me aback because although I agree with Marcus campaign, I thought whats wrong with that?
My big ambition as a child was simply to have enough money to always be able to turn the heating on and buy what I want in the supermarket.

@DilemmaDelilah - there are many reasons they may not be managing as well as you - illness, disability, mental health issues, caring responsibilities, lack of education, growing up in a chaotic household, being homeless etc etc. Most people are just managing the best they can even if they're not doing as well as you did.

More people on low incomes have mental health issues or trauma and use alcohol and cigarettes to deal with it.

I totally agree. I think its important to remember that many people with diagnosed or undiagnosed mental health conditions, tend to self medicate with carbohydrates, sugar, alcohol, cigarettes, etc in an attempt to make themselves feel better!

After all, the reality is that for many people with MH conditions, the main treatment is really drugs, because doctors write a prescription, knowing there isn't much else they can offer - the state is not going to provide enough talking therapies or solutions to social problems any time soon. What then is the difference between taking anti-depressants and say eating foods, that produce serotonin or other feel good bio-chemicals? It's too simplistic to blame people for poor choices in what they spend their money on.

I can’t believe what this country has come to tbh. It might as well be the US for the heartlessness of the system.

And how good those children in really poor households have to be - sticking to the food rules so patiently.

Before the big changes & UC coming in, if you had a broken washing machine etc.. you could get a grant.

No grants now, if you can get it at all it's a loan.

If you had housing benefit it covered your rent.
Doesn't for most people now, they have to make up the difference from the bit they are supposed to live on.

If the council had housed you & only had a bigger house, you didn't have to pay bedroom tax.
You do now from the bit you should be living on.

If you got council tax benefit it covered 100% of your council tax.
Doesn't now, you have to pay 20% of the council tax from your existing benefits.
That is a fiver a week in my local area & a drop in benefits that nobody seemed to notice.

Child benefit is about the same rate as it was a decade ago. Not sure how long it's stayed at that amount.

Insane sanctions.
I know people who have been sanctioned for being in surgery when they should have been signing on.
Even though it was emergency surgery they couldn't possibly have known about, even after proof that is why they weren't there, they still got sanctioned.
People get sanctioned for not turning up to appointments they were never told about.
Doesn't matter that you can prove that, the sanctions remain.

Add to that the tiny amount benefits have gone up in the past decade - I'm not sure it amounts to more than a fiver a week which is far less than the cost of living has gone up & benefits do not buy anywhere near what they could ten years ago.

Costs for things like school uniforms have rocketed, the days when you could just buy a shirt, skirt & jumper in the supermarket are long gone with demands from schools for embroidered crap at ridiculous prices & ever changing rules on acceptable shoes etc.. if you don't want your child to be in isolation.
No extra money for that.

So, less money in real terms, no longer paid weekly/fortnightly which was easier to manage so people desperately wait for their monthly payday when they have to pay out 90% of their money before waiting again for the next months payday, higher costs for everything that you must pay (utilities, rent, council tax, transport to sign on or be sanctioned etc..)
With all the added costs without increased income, I'm amazed people have money left for food.

Many of us don't need drugs for treatment. We need less bad lives. My case is not being allowed a safe home and not having any support. My last bit of support is gone cos person left their job and although was promised smooth transition, not happened, been told not happening now cos they changing their system, so been left with safeguarding fails, places breaking the law and getting away with it, and left at risk of abuse and violence with nowhere to turn.

Don't need drugs just need safe life but would happily take assisted suicide instead if was allowed. Don't understand why government wants to say we are burden cost money but then left to rot suffering. If they don't want to spend to help us, is cruel leaving us to live torture life. Living in constant fear no way to live. Is cruel.

With domestic violence is cruel pretending is help. Is lies cos help depends on where you live and if you live in bad support area, you get no help. Takes so much to ask for help when so scared and ashamed and so destroys you if you do that then get places not give a shit and break safeguarding rules and tell you to just leave or call police with no support to do that or they have closed waiting lists so if you get killed or injured waiting, who cares.

Is in news about bad police so more frightening to do it without support but know not all bad cos had kind ones come out in past but can't do it alone with no support.

Then cos of postcode lottery if you beg out of area place for help, they put phone down on you when you say you out of area. You beg them to help despite out of area cos frightened not safe and desperate but they don't care.

Is really frightening cos the same places that hang up phone on you even if you at risk of being murdered, are where you go if refuge cos you go out of area.

You supposed to trust and put your life in the hands of people who made clear you are outsider and then you feel unwelcome and like you stealing place from local woman. Is horrible and then when your time in refuge is up, when support hasn't been given you have to go back then things million times worse and no trust left.

Is situations like that is why we end up being burden needing benefits cos of physical damage injuries and mental trauma. I can manage money but only can do that if have safe home and money to manage. Get it if people don't want to waste money on washed up victim but should let me have assisted suicide instead of forced to live torture life.

@user1471447863

There's an element of build it and they will come. If you have foodbanks that will supply to anyone, no referral, no questions asked, then some people will use them as an alternative to Asda. Others may have initially attended in a crisis moment and have now started regularly going as they can get what they need for free and spend on other things. The reduction in stigma surrounding foodbanks and the like will also have helped drive this.

To extend the idea further, if a van came to your door ever week and handed you a big box of food for free, no questions asked, no stigma, how many would turn it down saying o thanks i'll go to Tesco and pay for it thankyou, when the rest of the neighbourhood were taking it?

I disagree. I've been involved with a free food hub since May 2020. Visitors are incredibly disciplined about only using it when they need - ie when their chronic poverty tips over into acute need despite their ingenuity and resourcefulness. The phrase 'No, I'll leave that for someone who really needs it" breaks my heart sometimes

Is humiliating and no choice or control on what you have when food bank. Would never ever have done by choice.

The DWP rang me up today. They said they will write me a letter on one issue - but it will probably take them a year to get round to it!