To not understand the benefit system . What is going on ?

[Westnsouthnabout]

I have got totally out of touch with the benefits system.. used to work in public services so did used to be in direct contact with a variety of social issues.
Am aware that sudden breakages like washing machines to be paid for, delays in initial payment and sanctioning can mean a sudden and catastrophic change in cash flow.
However, I have been reading that food banks are utterly stretched and in crisis.
I do understand that many people end up in emeegency sitiations, however, have also been reading that some are actually reliant on regular food banks . Sort of like a weekly shop..
I totally accept that I am out of touch with current situations and would like to kmow( seperate to current rising cost of living etc which i know about) .. what is going on re why so many people are relying on them as a regular source of food when they are in reciept of a regular and mostly preductable income( apart from sanctions etc as i said) in the form of benefits.
I am aware I am ignorant amd want to understand more and perhaps contribute.

@Nat6999 I remember the provident days! My mum used to use them.

I’m in receipt of UC - I work 36-48 hrs per week in the Care sector and have DD15 at home with me - we have never had any financial support from useless ex who is on PIP due to stroke brought about by excessive cocaine use and drinking. The thing that keeps me afloat is not having a car - I would be royally f**ked if I had one - I live in social housing (also a massive advantage) - I buy clothes and furniture from charity shops and Ebay. I shop at Lidl (bloody fantastic place) and can normally save for some sort of holiday between Jan and June - from Aug to Nov I save for Christmas and try to avoid debt - don’t drink, smoke, do drugs or go out except occasionally for coffee, sightseeing or a meal. I buy us decent shoes and when I have to replace the cooker and fridge, they will be mini versions - I have managed to buy new washing machines by getting ex display models.

When you’re on a tight budget you have to be bloody resourceful.

DD19 is at Uni and is blown away by how much money other students have and how they take it for granted! She is studying Law and is really proud she got there having had zero privilege!!

A family member recently became very ill last year and was put in the support group & she gets high rate pip & care
In total she gets on UC she gets every month
720 for being in the support group
280 inc child benefit and UC money for her child
High rate PIP care £350
High Rate mobility £245
These sums are approx to the pound
Then she gets her full rent paid on her council house and full council tax
It’s a little over 2k a month
I know this is the case because I have done all the forms for her to ensure she gets what she needs while she is ill and I’ve dealt with pretty much all of her claims
So yes In some cases you can be fine on benefits
She also got a back payment of just over 3200 for her PIP claim

@Hippychick2 pip isn’t for regular living expenses though , being disabled is expensive.

Hippychick2 Receiving disability benefits does not enable you to live a life of luxury, it isn't cheap to be disabled. I am in the support group for ESA & get Enhanced rate PIP for DailyLiving & Mobility, I also receive a small Ill Health Retirement Pension from the Civil Service most of which is deducted from my ESA. Due to being housebound I have to have all of my food, toiletries, clothing, medication & anything else I need to buy online delivered which means I have to pay delivery charges, on average I spend around £25 per week on delivery charges which amounts to £1300 per year. I need my home to be heated constantly during colder months, unlike someone who goes out to work who only needs their home warm for a couple of hours in a morning & when they arrive home in the evening. I suffer from urinary incontinence & use incontinence products costing around £75 per month, my GP refuses to refer me to the continence service which amounts to £900 per year. This is without the things I pay for like a cleaner, a gardener when I finally get a property with private outside space, all the things that an able bodied person takes for granted, some people will consider them to be luxuries, but to a disabled person they can be essential to manage their home & standard of living, even something like buying pre chopped & peeled frozen vegetables to enable a disabled person to cook meals will cost extra compared to buy fresh vegetables. Maybe we should not use the word Disabled, but use the word Enabled?

@Suzi888

I do sympathise with the genuine cases, cottonheadedninymuggins- that is awful and carers should get more.

Perhaps if so many people didn’t take the piss, there would be more in the pot for genuine cases.

Yes. If huge corporations and rich people paid their fair share of taxes, then there would likely be enough money to run the country to a standard of decency and humanity that has been tragically lacking for far too long.

The govt make a big deal out of people being able to apply for support if destitute, but that support is a loan, which is taken off your future entitlement.

Is why so many domestic violence murders. Why we don't leave or go back. The system is big help to abusers cos all abuser has to do is leave victim physically or mentally injured then no way out.

The old housing benefit system meant that the majority of people who lived in private rented accommodation (outside of London) received benefit that paid most of their rent, or if they did have to pay a top up (because the rent was considered too high) it was a manageable amount, eg £50 a month

Is like poster says. Victims of domestic violence in London had no way out long time. Local connection rules mean they can't move easy somewhere else even if they ok going away from support. Even many refuges have local restrictions. Law says councils have to house DV victims but many break the law and get away with it and even if do the law is only temporary like one year private rent so no safety especially if victim disabled or disabled child.

Is poverty trap.

I still remember the threads we had a few years ago about how we shouldn't put 'nice' things like biscuits and treats in food bank donations. Because hey, poor people shouldn't have those

I make a point of donating nice treats. I look in the food bank box at the supermarket and see it's full of value beans etc. So I make a point of putting in nice snacks such as biscuits, crisps, popcorn etc.

@Hippychick2

A family member recently became very ill last year and was put in the support group & she gets high rate pip & care In total she gets on UC she gets every month 720 for being in the support group 280 inc child benefit and UC money for her child High rate PIP care £350 High Rate mobility £245 These sums are approx to the pound Then she gets her full rent paid on her council house and full council tax It’s a little over 2k a month I know this is the case because I have done all the forms for her to ensure she gets what she needs while she is ill and I’ve dealt with pretty much all of her claims So yes In some cases you can be fine on benefits She also got a back payment of just over 3200 for her PIP claim

Her full rent won't be paid ....she has to pay that out of UC. You don't get UC and Housing benefit plus council tax benefit, UC replaced these benefits and you get a lump sum from which you have to pay both.

She sounds severely disabled if she gets higher rate PIP for care and mobility .

It could be that

Plus if you need social care as a younger adult each council can decide what charge. I live on ESA and PIP (no savings) my council wanted me pay £500 a month towards 10 hours a week so 45min morning and half hour evening. Granted Cheaper than agency at £22 per hour. But if you have pay get dressed washed out of bed it’s not cheap. It’s not free although many seem think it’s a gold ticket to having a Servant!

Worked for decades
Made redundant
Received £74 per week, contributions based job seekers allowance & had to attend the job centre once a week
Bills still arrived as normal
I was fortunate to get new employment within a few weeks
I was certainly not rolling in benefits !

Mostly it's because unpredictably they don't get the benefits that they're entitled to or that they expect. So a sudden drop in income that they haven't planned for and that takes a while to sort out.
Two of the biggest causes of longer term issues are the benefit cap and the the local housing allowance (amount of rent that benefits will pay) being insufficient to pay the rent of the claimant.

09:24Whiskyinajar

Hippychick2

A family member recently became very ill last year and was put in the support group & she gets high rate pip & care
In total she gets on UC she gets every month
720 for being in the support group
280 inc child benefit and UC money for her child
High rate PIP care £350
High Rate mobility £245
These sums are approx to the pound
Then she gets her full rent paid on her council house and full council tax
It’s a little over 2k a month
I know this is the case because I have done all the forms for her to ensure she gets what she needs while she is ill and I’ve dealt with pretty much all of her claims
So yes In some cases you can be fine on benefits
She also got a back payment of just over 3200 for her PIP claim
___
Her full rent won't be paid ....she has to pay that out of UC.
You don't get UC and Housing benefit plus council tax benefit, UC replaced these benefits and you get a lump sum from which you have to pay both.

She sounds severely disabled if she gets higher rate PIP for care and mobility .

It could be that

_
Not in this scenario. The £720 that Hippy Chick references will be the standard element plus the element for the support group (now called LCWRA). Housing will be on top of that.

Council tax support/reduction is paid by the council and is separate to UC.
Housing element now comes put of UC.
If you're on legacy benefits then you'll get Housing Benefit and that is paid by the council.

It's not the difference between housing benefit and UC that makes housing unaffordable, it's the application of the LHA which applies to both.

@MasterGland

It is a combination of wages being too low and benefits being too low. The government needs to force more of the burden on to private business, by implementing a minimum wage that it is possible to live comfortably on and banning zero hours contracts. Most benefit claimants are in work, and the government (taxpayers) are subsidising their profits with top up benefits. That's it really.

The fraud in the system is minimal, and when any is found is given a disproportionate amount of media coverage.

I don't understand how people can get so worked up about someone on benefits having "the latest phone", but barely bat an eyelid at the minimal taxes paid by amazon and their ilk. Really?!

There but for the grace of God, go I.

High housing costs are another factor. In many parts of the country, the rent and council tax on a private sector family home will account for a huge chunk of the net pay of someone on the average salary.

Consequently, a lot of families are entitled to help towards their rent from UC, and taxpayers' money goes straight into the pockets of private landlords.

This is the consequence of giving people the right to buy their social housing homes while preventing councils/HAs from using the money from the sales to build more. If families could still find housing at truly affordable rents, far fewer people would need to be on UC.

I also think it's inequitable that investors have their BTL mortgages paid by the taxpayer, when someone who is buying their home can't get help with their mortgage when they fall on hard times, not even for a few months. The only help they can get is in the form of a loan, which is secured against the property, and you can only get that when you've been on benefits for 9 months.

There’s definitely a feeling where I live that you are ‘better off on benefits’. When DD was in primary I was called a mug more than once for having a job and I should claim and stay at home.
The thing is I wouldn’t actually be entitled to any of the benefits they were (DH has always worked FT) and I was hugely better off than them. I do live in an area with more available housing and they are all in housing association houses which I assume helps.

One thing I noticed is how many of the other parents were being subsidised by their own parents. Often elderly and on pensions, but they had all worked. One I was friendly with ate at her parents house most days (lunch and dinner) and they would pay for lots of things for GC. She always seems to manage fairly well but I’m not sure if she will when her parents are gone.

@Whiskyinajar
She gets around £720 in UC for herself in the support group
She gets her rent paid direct to the council from her UC payment
she was struggling in the past and got into debt so she asked for it to be taken out of her UC payment first .
But after the rent and council tax is taken out she is left with approx £720 for herself
She has a council house so her rent and council tax is just over £110 a week .
Plus the child element and child benefit which is approx £280 Ish
And she get the full rate of both care and mobility which

@oviraptor21

Thank you you got what I meant
I know what my family member gets pretty much to the pound as I have filled out all of the forms and in my family we are quite open with each other with regards to money

I am on UC. I regularly use a food bank. The reason is I get no help with my housing costs so have to use my UC and PIP to pay for my mortgage. While getting the uplift I was able to reduce my use of the foodbank. But since it stopped and my utilities rose a lot too I need to use it again.

In my area there is high drug use and food bank dependency.

What happens is the parents on benefits have younger children in their 20s and 30s on crack or another class A and they beg and take all of their mums money.

The mum is forced to use the food bank as they have no money and her family are fed up of giving her cash for it to go straight into the child's hands.

I know of 3 older women who recieve disability allowance who seem to be under a spell from their sons, one is a close family member and they have made friends with other women who are in this predicament.

No amount of reasoning can make them see that they are making the issue worse.

I understand SOME people need to be on benefits eg disabled, children/carers etc
However I do work in this sector and see countless time and time again.. people who could work but chose not to. They spend £50-100 a week on cigarettes or alcohol or drugs and therefore have to feed their children via food banks.
They are the reason I feel so angry that such a horrible amount of my hard earned money goes to tax.
Get a job.

Come on, these benefits threads are always the same. Some insinuating that people have great lives on them, or that they are getting something for nothing. It sounds absolutely shit, having to use that mental energy to work a system, ask for food, calculate all this stuff. If you've got any better options, people get themselves out of it. Otherwise its a limited way to live, really.

My friend is on benefits, has never worked and has savings. On social media she always looks very well made up, hair done nice etc, and occasionally talking about (expensive/new release video games) and trips out.

If you knew her on social media you could well assume that there was 'something wrong with the system'. The reality is she does get a high rate of benefits as a single person, because she has debilitating mental health issues including psychosis at times, and ASD as well as RA that means she can only walk short distances and lives in constant pain. She has savings from her benefits money because she spent years pretty much trapped inside her house in an anxiety and pain spiral. You really don't spend much money if you never leave the house or have an interest in buying anything beyond very basic/safe food. Over the last few years with better support she's been able to go out a bit more and she celebrates it with getting dressed up (she's a make up expert due to having a lot of time on her hands to sit in her room and practice obsessively) and she'll take photos without her chair or walking aids.
She still probably only goes out (as in, leaving the house) once or twice a week and a social trip maybe once a month. For people in work seeing that on SM it might seem a lot but when you're not working that's an awful lot of time at home indoors (which is where the gaming comes in, if you play them a lot they're actually quite good value for money, and its a type of socialising that she's more able to cope with)

She's had to come to terms with that lifestyle after being relatively well and high functioning in her teens (mental health issues started in twenties and RA in thirties) with all the 'usual' aspirations for a career, starting uni etc. I'm sure she'd swap it for a non benefits lifestyle in a heartbeat. She's told me a few times that she feels guilty for having money in her bank account because she knows there are families who are living payment to payment. It's horrible that people are guilted into feeling that way.

@2020isnotbehaving

Some manage and others struggle because rate doesn’t change on rents. So if you live in cheap council house for £100 week rents all paid for. If you live in one bed flat for £1000 a month and the max your local authority will pay is £700 the magic £300 has to come out of rest of money leaving nothing.

I'm in the North. But the London housing allowance is it not more compared to the North?